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Thread: Crisis of faith

  1. #31
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    Re: Crisis of faith

    Quote Originally Posted by outlaw393 View Post
    I could be wrong about him being my patron, too. It's not the first time I was wrong about a god being my patron. Of course, if I'm wrong about Odin, that means I don't have a patron. I've been walking the Pagan path one way or another for six years, and I always thought that every Pagan had a patron god. Maybe I was wrong.
    Maybe you were. And maybe, even if he is your patron, you have to learn to be independent, even from him.
    Looking into other gods may be useful (I personally am convinced, that paying some attention to the whole pantheon of your choice, not just to few selected deities, is very important and rewarding), but it also may be, that you have to look into yourself, or into the "mundane" world to balance out your spiritual aspirations.

    "As above, so below" is a very useful principle.

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    Re: Crisis of faith

    Quote Originally Posted by SunflowerP View Post
    Yes, you were wrong.

    Many of the pagan religions don't require that one have a patron, and for some pagan paths, the concept is pretty much meaningless to that path.

    Many of those who do have patrons chose their patron(s), rather than being chosen - often this is because the deity's spheres of interest included something the practitioner does: hir profession, f'ex. They may never experience direct interaction; for many, the main way they know they haven't made a mistake in their choice is that the deity doesn't reject their attentions.

    Very very few people get an actual thwap, where the deity chooses them. There are quite a few of us here on TC, but that's unusual - and even then, I'm pretty sure there are more people here who haven't had that experience. Even of those who have, many have direct interaction with their patrons only very occasionally.

    Sunflower
    This is a belief I carry, that every Pagan has a patron. It's just a matter of finding who they are.

    There are no paths that I know of that "requires" any of it's followers to have a patron, and certainly not mine.

    Wrong about my belief? That's not the right wording. I might have the wrong god, but I'm not "wrong" about holding my belief.

    That's certainly not a response I expected.
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    Re: Crisis of faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigall View Post
    Maybe you were. And maybe, even if he is your patron, you have to learn to be independent, even from him.
    Looking into other gods may be useful (I personally am convinced, that paying some attention to the whole pantheon of your choice, not just to few selected deities, is very important and rewarding), but it also may be, that you have to look into yourself, or into the "mundane" world to balance out your spiritual aspirations.

    "As above, so below" is a very useful principle.
    I am independent. That's not the issue here.

    The rest of the pantheons of choice don't interact with me and likewise seem to have no interest in me. Years ago I realized that prayers to those gods were empty and meaningless, and resulted in no real results (a presence, a sign, an answer...) so I follow the Gods that have called me, that have given me one of the three things mentioned above.

    My next task to to find my patron. And if I re-find Odin, so be it. That will only strengthen my resolve to establish a decent relationship with him.

    When searching for my patron, I will take into account the possibility that he is one of the gods that I currently don't follow.

    Thanks!
    Conformity is the death of individualism

  4. #34
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    Re: Crisis of faith

    Quote Originally Posted by outlaw393 View Post
    This is a belief I carry, that every Pagan has a patron. It's just a matter of finding who they are.

    There are no paths that I know of that "requires" any of it's followers to have a patron, and certainly not mine.

    Wrong about my belief? That's not the right wording. I might have the wrong god, but I'm not "wrong" about holding my belief.

    That's certainly not a response I expected.
    You're not wrong about holding a belief - the belief you hold is not correct, based on evidence. There are pagans out there without patrons...therefore, not every pagan has a patron.
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    Re: Crisis of faith

    Quote Originally Posted by outlaw393 View Post
    I always thought that every Pagan had a patron god.
    I do not have a patron.
    "When nothing is sure, everything is possible." -Margaret Drabble

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    Re: Crisis of faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigall View Post
    Maybe you were. And maybe, even if he is your patron, you have to learn to be independent, even from him.
    Outlaw, is it any coincidence that when you were in a relationship and happy with your life that you were also posting on here how sure you were of your beliefs and happiness with your gods? Then you went through a breakup and suddenly you're posting again about (another) crisis of faith.

    What is it that you truly expect from the gods? Are your expectations fair?

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    Re: Crisis of faith

    Quote Originally Posted by outlaw393 View Post
    Years ago I realized that prayers to those gods were empty and meaningless, and resulted in no real results (a presence, a sign, an answer...) so I follow the Gods that have called me, that have given me one of the three things mentioned above.
    That's one of the problems, in my opinion - people assume, that unless they get an intense mystical experience while praying to the gods, the prayers and rituals are meaningless. Expecting too much often they may miss the more subtle changes, that these prayers cause in them.

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    Re: Crisis of faith

    Quote Originally Posted by veggiewolf View Post
    You're not wrong about holding a belief - the belief you hold is not correct, based on evidence. There are pagans out there without patrons...therefore, not every pagan has a patron.
    Well it's up to each individual to find their patron, and if they don't find one, well perhaps they were unable to find whoever it was.
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    Re: Crisis of faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigall View Post
    That's one of the problems, in my opinion - people assume, that unless they get an intense mystical experience while praying to the gods, the prayers and rituals are meaningless. Expecting too much often they may miss the more subtle changes, that these prayers cause in them.
    Well I'm not expecting an "intense mystical experience". What I expect is very little in return.
    Conformity is the death of individualism

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    Re: Crisis of faith

    Quote Originally Posted by outlaw393 View Post
    Well it's up to each individual to find their patron, and if they don't find one, well perhaps they were unable to find whoever it was.
    Hm. During the couple of decades when I was wiccish, I never had a patron, nor did I think I was supposed to, nor did I feel the need to, nor did anyone tell me I should, nor . . . I'll stop there. Clearly, you believe that pagans should have patrons. Please realize that not all pagans do, nor do all pagans think they should.



    If *you* feel you need one, as it seems you do from reading this thread, then I wish you good journeys in finding whoever it is.
    "The Eightfold Path is sometimes called the pathless path. Each step brings a growing awareness that enlightenment is in the here and now--in the world and in our relationships as we read these words . . . now." -- Jonathan White
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