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Author Topic: Hitler and Religion  (Read 3245 times)

Gore

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Hitler and Religion
« on: February 06, 2012, 06:05:51 pm »
Does anyone have any idea as to why Hitler encouraged Heathenism over Christianity? I don't totally understand why he did so. I can only think to give his people a sense of unity unique to them, which in turn made it so easy to turn old heathen symbols of virtue into his personal hate banners. :mad:
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 07:04:17 pm by RandallS »

Melamphoros

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Re: Hitler
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2012, 06:16:30 pm »
Quote from: ToddGrove;41760
Does anyone have any idea as to why Hitler encouraged Heathenism over Christianity? I don't totally understand why he did so. I can only think to give his people a sense of unity unique to them, which in turn made it so easy to turn old heathen symbols of virtue into his personal hate banners. :mad:

 
I think it may have something to do with his belief in some sort of Aryan golden age.  Although Hitler didn't really seem that big on religion in general.  Then again, he contradicted himself on that topic so many times it's kind of hard to know for sure.


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Gore

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Re: Hitler
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2012, 06:29:44 pm »
Quote from: Melamphoros;41763
I think it may have something to do with his belief in some sort of Aryan golden age.  Although Hitler didn't really seem that big on religion in general.  Then again, he contradicted himself on that topic so many times it's kind of hard to know for sure.

 
It seems highly likely that in his crazed stupor he decided to not make any sense of anything and contradict himself so much that he has confused everyone that tries to study him! :( Lol
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 06:30:34 pm by Gore »

RandallS

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Re: Hitler
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2012, 07:03:28 pm »
Quote from: ToddGrove;41760
Does anyone have any idea as to why Hitler encouraged Heathenism over Christianity? I don't totally understand why he did so. I can only think to give his people a sense of unity unique to them, which in turn made it so easy to turn old heathen symbols of virtue into his personal hate banners. :mad:

As far as I can tell, Hilter considered himself a Christian and was fairly positive about Christianity and Christ (who was "Ayran" in Hitler's view). He simply thought the Church as an organization should be inferior to the state and a part of the Nazi machine -- just like everyone else. Apparently his failure to unify all the German Protestant churches turned him somewhat anti-clerical by the beginning of the war. However, according to Speer, Hilter remained a member of the Catholic Church until the day he died and ordered his direct subordinates to do likewise. His opinion of Paganism might be summed up in a statement attributed to him in the "Table Talk" notebooks: "It seems to me that nothing would be more foolish than to re-establish the worship of Wotan. Our old mythology ceased to be viable when Christianity implanted itself. Nothing dies unless it is moribund."

The "pagan" symbolism used by the Nazi party wasn't so much an attempt to impose Paganism as it was to connect Nazism with the mythic history of the Germanic people. That said, many of his subordinates were interested in occultism (although Hilter apparently was not very interested) and some of the people involved in creating the elaborate symbolism and pageantry of the Nazis may have had occult or even  Pagan leanings: Rosenberg, for example.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 07:11:38 pm by RandallS »
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Celtag

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Re: Hitler and Religion
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2012, 07:12:51 pm »
Quote from: ToddGrove;41760
Does anyone have any idea as to why Hitler encouraged Heathenism over Christianity? I don't totally understand why he did so. I can only think to give his people a sense of unity unique to them, which in turn made it so easy to turn old heathen symbols of virtue into his personal hate banners. :mad:
Like Randall said, Hitler was just using the pagan imagery to convey a message German superiority and to unify the country. Hitler was big into pageantry and making a spectacle of pretty much anything. It is sad though, that now those symbols will always be connected with the Nazi regime.
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cigfran

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Re: Hitler and Religion
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2012, 07:33:02 pm »
Quote from: ToddGrove;41760
Does anyone have any idea as to why Hitler encouraged Heathenism over Christianity?


He didn't, really. He had a vague idea of "Aryanism" but nowhere did he promote heathenism. Search the text of Mein Kampf and you'll find no reference to it. While he was a Christian, his main interest in religion seemed to be as an agent in fascist ideology (as has been described by Randall) and as a rhetorical weapon against the Jews.

Himmler had heathenish fantasies (oddly mushed up with his bizarre idea of re-establishing the Knights Templar), and some of the pre-Hitler intelligentsia were caught up in 'Ariosophy' - but the idea that Nazism in general, or Hitler in particular, were substantially informed by heathenism is a bit of hand-waving propaganda on the part of Christian apologists like Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke.

mandrina

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Re: Hitler
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2012, 10:33:45 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;41769
As far as I can tell, Hilter considered himself a Christian and was fairly positive about Christianity and Christ (who was "Ayran" in Hitler's view). He simply thought the Church as an organization should be inferior to the state and a part of the Nazi machine -- just like everyone else. Apparently his failure to unify all the German Protestant churches turned him somewhat anti-clerical by the beginning of the war. However, according to Speer, Hilter remained a member of the Catholic Church until the day he died and ordered his direct subordinates to do likewise. His opinion of Paganism might be summed up in a statement attributed to him in the "Table Talk" notebooks: "It seems to me that nothing would be more foolish than to re-establish the worship of Wotan. Our old mythology ceased to be viable when Christianity implanted itself. Nothing dies unless it is moribund."

The "pagan" symbolism used by the Nazi party wasn't so much an attempt to impose Paganism as it was to connect Nazism with the mythic history of the Germanic people. That said, many of his subordinates were interested in occultism (although Hilter apparently was not very interested) and some of the people involved in creating the elaborate symbolism and pageantry of the Nazis may have had occult or even  Pagan leanings: Rosenberg, for example.

Now, my understanding is there was the use of some of the mythos and 'old rituals' to make the pagentry and unification, but religion was useful to help control and unify the people under the state. Some of the old mythos did that. And if any religion didn't do that, then the clergy needed to be replaced until it did.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 10:34:53 pm by mandrina »
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Re: Hitler
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2012, 08:06:06 am »
Quote from: mandrina;41782
Now, my understanding is there was the use of some of the mythos and 'old rituals' to make the pagentry and unification, but religion was useful to help control and unify the people under the state. Some of the old mythos did that.

That sounds pretty much like the views of most of the higher level Nazis.

Quote
And if any religion didn't do that, then the clergy needed to be replaced until it did.

As I understand it, Hilter was surprised at the opposite to this from some of the Protestant clergy in Germany as he considered Christianity an "Aryan" institution that should be a natural ally of Nazism.
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Re: Hitler
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2012, 09:29:22 am »
Quote from: RandallS;41801
That sounds pretty much like the views of most of the higher level Nazis.


 
As I understand it, Hilter was surprised at the opposite to this from some of the Protestant clergy in Germany as he considered Christianity an "Aryan" institution that should be a natural ally of Nazism.

Christianity did have a history of antisemitism that, at least by that standard, should have made them perfect bedfellows, especially some of the words that came out of Luther's mouth.

it's nice to know that some of the clergy got over that and at least tried to follow christ rather than luther.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 09:31:05 am by mandrina »
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Re: Hitler
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2012, 09:57:35 am »
Quote from: mandrina;41809
Christianity did have a history of antisemitism that, at least by that standard, should have made them perfect bedfellows, especially some of the words that came out of Luther's mouth.


Perfectly strange bedfellows indeed: http://egregores.blogspot.com/2011/11/not-so-occult-foundations-of-nazism.html

Quote from: mandrina;41809
it's nice to know that some of the clergy got over that and at least tried to follow christ rather than luther.


And then of course there are these guys:




mandrina

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Re: Hitler
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2012, 01:36:04 pm »
Quote from: cigfran;41812




And then of course there are these guys:





well, I did say some.
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Re: Hitler
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2012, 06:52:27 pm »
Quote from: mandrina;41829
well, I did say some.

As I recall the clergy that did not support the Nazis were a minority, although a relatively large one. Also, the Confessing Church (as the opposition to the Nazi approved Reichskirche was called) did not officially oppose the political and social goals of Nazi state -- at least not until later, their main opposition was to the Nazi attempt to control the church organization and suborn its doctrine to Nazi ideology.

There might not have been as much opposition as there was had Hitler not insisted on having Ludwig Müller as Reichsbischof in 1933. Müller was apparently very unpopular and politically inept and had little "church" qualification for the job. Hitler had to really strongarm his election.
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Remember

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Hitler and Religion
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2012, 07:10:54 pm »
Hitler was baptized and was the god father of Goerings daughter as well of Gobbles children, many nazis were onto the occult such as Rudolf Hess, during the days after ww1 he was ordered to spy on the Thule society. In mein kampf he explains how he was Catholic. He was the one who got Catholics along with other Christian groups.

The use with runes and Odinism came from Himmler who was also in the occult. An interesting topic about him is himmlers castle

The is information about him celebrating pagan holidays, and why he chose that day to die.

The media does a lot to not let us know who he was. The victor writes his-story.

Melamphoros

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Re: Hitler and Religion
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2012, 07:27:36 pm »
Quote from: Remember;41877
Hitler was baptized and was the god father of Goerings daughter as well of Gobbles children, many nazis were onto the occult such as Rudolf Hess, during the days after ww1 he was ordered to spy on the Thule society. In mein kampf he explains how he was Catholic. He was the one who got Catholics along with other Christian groups.

The use with runes and Odinism came from Himmler who was also in the occult. An interesting topic about him is himmlers castle

The is information about him celebrating pagan holidays, and why he chose that day to die.

The media does a lot to not let us know who he was. The victor writes his-story.

 
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