Author Topic: Don't want to be a target (Read 2697 times)

Nixie · « **on:** December 28, 2011, 05:22:28 pm »

Hello,

I have recently become active in my local pagan community. I have really enjoyed this interaction until recently because I have become a target of one’s disapproval. She refuses to except that I am still new to this and have not fully found my path yet. She openly puts me down for being a “dabbler” because I have not chosen a specific worship, have regular rituals, celebrate pagan holidays, or worship named deities. At this point I am doing what feels right to me and going at my own pace.

No one else has treated me poorly but no one has come to my defense or aid. On the few occasions I have defended myself has only made it worse. Everyone else seems to be free to be as they are but me. I seem to be the only one she targets this way.

She is very active in the community so avoiding her is not really an option. The next closest community is 2 hours away so I would really like to work this out. Any advice?

bluewave193 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 28, 2011, 05:31:00 pm »

Quote from: Nixie;36752

Hello,

I have recently become active in my local pagan community. I have really enjoyed this interaction until recently because I have become a target of one’s disapproval. She refuses to except that I am still new to this and have not fully found my path yet. She openly puts me down for being a “dabbler” because I have not chosen a specific worship, have regular rituals, celebrate pagan holidays, or worship named deities. At this point I am doing what feels right to me and going at my own pace.

No one else has treated me poorly but no one has come to my defense or aid. On the few occasions I have defended myself has only made it worse. Everyone else seems to be free to be as they are but me. I seem to be the only one she targets this way.

She is very active in the community so avoiding her is not really an option. The next closest community is 2 hours away so I would really like to work this out. Any advice?

Have you tried sitting her down and explaining that you're going at your own pace?

Also, if you've made any friends at the group, try sticking around them.
When does the group meet? Is it for specific rituals or just general get-togethers?

yewberry · « **Reply #2 on:** December 28, 2011, 05:39:58 pm »

Quote from: Nixie;36752

No one else has treated me poorly but no one has come to my defense or aid. On the few occasions I have defended myself has only made it worse. Everyone else seems to be free to be as they are but me. I seem to be the only one she targets this way.

She is very active in the community so avoiding her is not really an option. The next closest community is 2 hours away so I would really like to work this out. Any advice?

Without knowing more specifics about the situation, it's hard to give advice. What kind of group is it? A ritual group? A fellowship group? Are there clearly-defined expectations to which you're not adhering? Is there a group hierarchy? And if so, can you appeal to its leaders? How specifically did your interactions with this person progress? Could you have handled things in a different way?

Unprovoked and (presumably) public disrespect is a serious issue, and there's really no excuse for it, and no excuse for the rest of the group to ignore it. If they are doing so, it's entirely possible that this isn't the group for you, no matter how inconvenient that might be.

Brina

Daevyd · « **Reply #3 on:** December 28, 2011, 08:15:21 pm »

Quote from: yewberry;36755

Without knowing more specifics about the situation, it's hard to give advice.

Brina

Agreed. I also agree that if the situation can't be resolved, then you may have to leave the group - IF you find that it hampers your development.

Keep in mind that it sounds as though this other person has an issue that needs to be worked out - not you. It could be that she is going through a transitional period or rough time that has her stressed - or she could just be a *****. But it could be an opportunity disguised, you know? If you're one of those who believe that most things happen for a reason, maybe changing your perspective will show the reason. Could it be that she has subconsciously singled you out because you have an ability or trait that will help?

Too, if it isn't too disruptive for you, then you could allow it to serve as additional training for you ... as in the ability to continue on your path despite negative environments and attitudes.

I'm trying (maybe not so successfully) to say that I (and, I'm sure, many others here) understand your situation. But sometimes the best solution is a simple change of perspective. And sometimes it opens doors on your own path that you otherwise wouldn't have the chance to peek into or walk through.

Have you tried it already?

monsnoleedra · « **Reply #4 on:** December 28, 2011, 08:51:24 pm »

Quote from: Nixie;36752

.. I have recently become active in my local pagan community. I have really enjoyed this interaction until recently because I have become a target of one’s disapproval. She refuses to except that I am still new to this and have not fully found my path yet. She openly puts me down for being a “dabbler” because I have not chosen a specific worship, have regular rituals, celebrate pagan holidays, or worship named deities. At this point I am doing what feels right to me and going at my own pace...

Truthfully it sounds like she is very neo-wiccan or neo-pagan in her application. The whole named deities, regular rituals, celebrate pagan holidays (I'm willing to bet its the traditional Wicca 101 book holidays and ways to honor and experience them) is all very Wiccanish to me and speaks a whole lot to the lack of knowledge and level of application your dealing with. I might get hammered for it but it also speaks to a deep lack of traditional training or initiation into an established pathway but more cherry picking.

In many ways I get a sense of you being a threat to her. The so called your existence casts doubt upon her expertise and thereby upon her creditability. So it becomes an issue of admit she is wrong, highly unlikely, or drive you away and prove to those that believe her that she is right. In some ways it reminds me of the Pagan Pride days stuff where your not Pagan enough unless you wear the holloween costumes.

But there is a lot of information missing here which prevents one from really making a reccomendation as to what to advise. For instance is community involvement many groups acting together or simply a single group? Even to the extent is it an open compilation of pathways or semi-closed and composed mainly of a given pathway? In many ways its also an issue of age and the age of the grouping, the age of the person involved and your own age. Age actually becomes a factor in a lot of community situations I have experienced.

I wish I knew more of the literal conflict and what is being said to have a basis to work from. Things like what is her pathway? Is she preceived as an elder on that pathway? Are you so active as to make her efforts appear to be lacking now? Even something as simple as does you presence make her fall into shadow with people looking to you or counting on you that once turnt to her for guidance.

Simply to many unknowns to advise.

Rowanfox · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2012, 05:31:14 pm »

Quote from: monsnoleedra;36763

I wish I knew more of the literal conflict and what is being said to have a basis to work from. Things like what is her pathway? Is she preceived as an elder on that pathway? Are you so active as to make her efforts appear to be lacking now? Even something as simple as does you presence make her fall into shadow with people looking to you or counting on you that once turnt to her for guidance.

Simply to many unknowns to advise.

or.......maybe she's just a bully. There seem to be more than their normal share in many smaller, non-mainstream communities. If it feels like bullying, it probably is. And should be dealt with as you would any other bully.

monsnoleedra · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2012, 05:53:47 pm »

Quote from: Rowanfox;37535

or.......maybe she's just a bully. There seem to be more than their normal share in many smaller, non-mainstream communities. If it feels like bullying, it probably is. And should be dealt with as you would any other bully.

Assumption is the mother of Ass-U-Me. But that tends to happen quite a bit on Pagan boards where decessions / opinions are arrived at without the benefit of actually knowing what is going on.

Rowanfox · « **Reply #7 on:** January 05, 2012, 12:49:02 pm »

Quote from: monsnoleedra;37539

Assumption is the mother of Ass-U-Me. But that tends to happen quite a bit on Pagan boards where decessions / opinions are arrived at without the benefit of actually knowing what is going on.

um........I'm not sure how to take this comment.

The OP said "...I have become a target of one’s disapproval."

and "On the few occasions I have defended myself has only made it worse. Everyone else seems to be free to be as they are but me. I seem to be the only one she targets this way.

and "Any advice?"

It is possible that I am overly sensitive to actions that I see as bullying.

It could also be that I am of the opinion that no matter your issues with someone, or your own personal agendas, it is never proper action to isolate an individual for criticism.

Just like there may be all kinds of extenuating circumstances that make the school yard bully the way he/she is; that does not excuse the behaviour; nor does it override the usual tactics taken to deal with it.

Just my opinion, of course. YMMV, obviously.

DaraD · « **Reply #8 on:** January 05, 2012, 03:46:29 pm »

Quote from: Rowanfox;37664

It could also be that I am of the opinion that no matter your issues with someone, or your own personal agendas, it is never proper action to isolate an individual for criticism.

Just like there may be all kinds of extenuating circumstances that make the school yard bully the way he/she is; that does not excuse the behaviour; nor does it override the usual tactics taken to deal with it.

Just my opinion, of course. YMMV, obviously.

I agree. It sounds a lot like bullying to me.

My recommendations:

1. As the OP is new to the community, I would recommend double checking any "out lines" the community may have about what should and should not be a part of one's study/belief structure in order to participate. If you are adhering to their particular "code of conduct", then proceed to number two or three.

2. Examine the person's behavior to see if you can discern a reason for the way they treat you.

or

3. Confront the person. Pull them aside and ask them outright if you have done anything to offend them or to warrant their dislike. Chances are they will just list the same things you have already listed, in which case you have to ask if you have done something personally to them.

In the end, you may be able to work things out with this person or you may need to find a new group if they continue to make you feel uncomfortable. The most important thing is that you are able to continue learning your path without someone belittling you because you're not at the "same level" as they are.

monsnoleedra · « **Reply #9 on:** January 05, 2012, 04:50:25 pm »

Quote from: Rowanfox;37664

um........I'm not sure how to take this comment.

The OP said "...I have become a target of one’s disapproval."

and "On the few occasions I have defended myself has only made it worse. Everyone else seems to be free to be as they are but me. I seem to be the only one she targets this way.

and "Any advice?"

It is possible that I am overly sensitive to actions that I see as bullying.

It could also be that I am of the opinion that no matter your issues with someone, or your own personal agendas, it is never proper action to isolate an individual for criticism.

Just like there may be all kinds of extenuating circumstances that make the school yard bully the way he/she is; that does not excuse the behaviour; nor does it override the usual tactics taken to deal with it.

Just my opinion, of course. YMMV, obviously.

Truthfuly when I see or hear someone go on about them being taken advantage of it tends to raise flags for me. More so because I find it's always a matter of their opinion against anothers and the one being accused is never given a voice. Then couple in the frequent occurence of "Poor Poor Pittyful me" syndrome where it must be assumed they are telling the full truth.

I just notice that many times on pagan boards the victim just has to be telling the truth in the eyes of those who respond. Many times I really do think it part of the victim mentatility that so many pagans seem to have to begin with so they automatically assume the person really is the victim.

I worked for a school transportation dept and we used to get reports all the time of bullies and such. Speak to the person and they were always innocent of any wrong doing. Put a camera on the bus and you find out that those dear little innocent children were often provoking things then claiming they were being wronged. Not to say there were not cases of true bullying but it seldom was as clear cut as many would try to profess.

Here we have a case of a person's personal perspective saying they are called out and everyone else is free to do as they desire. Nothing to support it nor disprove it as it is all personal opinion of a situation or situations. Yet it's jump to the conclusion that the person must be being bullied because they said so. A conclsuion reached without any supporting evidence beyond "You have to believe me for I am telling the truth!"

We still have no information as to what is being disputed. What type of position is being refuted or drawing negative responses. What material is allowed and appears accepted or endorsed by others yet is attacked when presented by the accuser. We do not know the make up of the grouping that is doing the community work. There are simply to many unknowns to be able to truthfuly imply it is a situation of being bullied or not accepted becasue of ones position or experience.

I can't speak for other but always approach a situation with what would I do or believe if it was being told to my face. I wish I could state that those who came complaining of being wronged or bullied were always telling the truth and not spinning it to make them look the victim but that would be a lie. The 10 years I worked for the school system, 23 years I spent in the military and the years I've spent as a coach, scout leader and working with youths and young adults has shown that the preponderance of the evidence shows its never the way one see's it in reference to themselves.

BUt hey if it makes you feel better to automatically assume they are being bullied when you only have a small fragment of a one sided story then by all means do so. Just remember though you might be the next bully that's malinged without though or consideration simply because someone got on some site and claimed they were wronged and its all the other person's faught.

yewberry · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2012, 06:15:06 pm »

Quote from: monsnoleedra;37694

We still have no information as to what is being disputed. What type of position is being refuted or drawing negative responses. What material is allowed and appears accepted or endorsed by others yet is attacked when presented by the accuser. We do not know the make up of the grouping that is doing the community work. There are simply to many unknowns to be able to truthfuly imply it is a situation of being bullied or not accepted becasue of ones position or experience.

Well...yeah. I asked some pointed questions that the OP has yet to answer in my previous post. I take her story at at face value until I hear otherwise, though. I'm well acquainted with PPC (Pagan Persecution Complex), but I don't assume that's the issue until I get more info. And this from a somewhat infamous hard-ass.

Brina

monsnoleedra · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2012, 07:01:15 pm »

Quote from: yewberry;37704

Well...yeah. I asked some pointed questions that the OP has yet to answer in my previous post. I take her story at at face value until I hear otherwise, though. I'm well acquainted with PPC (Pagan Persecution Complex), but I don't assume that's the issue until I get more info. And this from a somewhat infamous hard-ass.

Brina

I'm not even really saying PCC (I like that breviation so will use it I think) is the focus of the OP. It's just it runs through out the pagan community. Look at this thread alone, one person says its her problem not the op's, others imply the person is being a bully with no proof of what is occuring. As you point out the OP has not responded to any posts that ask for clarrification or additional info.

Yet I'm willing to bet that if you keep asking then your not carring or you've jumped to conclusions for not blindly accepting the OP's statement and positions. Yet that goes back to the PCC that is so often found in the community, especially younger practitioners in my experience.

In so many ways a lot of this reminds me of the kindler and gentler Pagan community where all things are accepted without question. Otherwise, it wouldn't be kindler and gentler and accepting of all things.

As I stated to me this whole scenario seem's to point to an issue of semantics with a strong influence of book taught Wicca 101. Ceremonies, rituals, identified god / goddess or Lord and Lady, calander etc is all base line stuff from the books and ignores the old year and a day or dedication to a given pathway and initiation into those pathways and the years and years of work that goes into them.

But hey I'm willing to admit when I am wrong and will eat crow from it. But it takes some evidence not simply a I'm right and thier wrong because I said so that's all based on a personal interaction between two individuals and one side of a storyline.

yewberry · « **Reply #12 on:** January 06, 2012, 01:21:56 pm »

Quote from: monsnoleedra;37711

Yet I'm willing to bet that if you keep asking then your not carring or you've jumped to conclusions for not blindly accepting the OP's statement and positions. Yet that goes back to the PCC that is so often found in the community, especially younger practitioners in my experience.

Maybe. Even probably. But even I, a pointy bitch of the very first water, sees no reason to leap to conclusions until we hear more. I'll save my energy for the "deserving".

Brina

monsnoleedra · « **Reply #13 on:** January 06, 2012, 03:41:03 pm »

Quote from: yewberry;37824

Maybe. Even probably. But even I, a pointy bitch of the very first water, sees no reason to leap to conclusions until we hear more. I'll save my energy for the "deserving".

Brina

I'm not really trying to jump to conclusions which is why I tend to ask questions. Yes, even waiting around to see if the OP does answer any of them. Yet there is also an old adage that equally applies...

Screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me.

Mata · « **Reply #14 on:** January 06, 2012, 09:03:50 pm »

Quote from: Nixie;36752

Hello,

I have recently become active in my local pagan community. I have really enjoyed this interaction until recently because I have become a target of one’s disapproval. She refuses to except that I am still new to this and have not fully found my path yet. She openly puts me down for being a “dabbler” because I have not chosen a specific worship, have regular rituals, celebrate pagan holidays, or worship named deities. At this point I am doing what feels right to me and going at my own pace.

No one else has treated me poorly but no one has come to my defense or aid. On the few occasions I have defended myself has only made it worse. Everyone else seems to be free to be as they are but me. I seem to be the only one she targets this way.

She is very active in the community so avoiding her is not really an option. The next closest community is 2 hours away so I would really like to work this out. Any advice?

Next time she does it, just sit her down, look her in the eye and tell her "Well honey, I might not always be a 'dabbler', but you will always be a total bitch." get up and walk away.

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