Author Topic: Proto-Indo-European religion (Read 8590 times)

dionysos · « **Reply #15 on:** August 24, 2015, 08:21:24 am »

Quote from: FraterBenedict;179127

Since PIE religion is a reconstruction, it is hardly surprising that more than one theory is circulating. According to M.L. West's Indo-European Poetry and Myth the equivalent of Shiva in Greek religion, is not Dionysos, but Apollo. Other Indo-European gods thought to have evolved from the same root as Shiva and Apollo are the Celtic Lugus/Lugh and the Norse O∂in.

That might be another theory which is fine but for me Shiva and Dionysos are one and the same.

Sophia C · « **Reply #16 on:** August 25, 2015, 06:45:26 am »

Quote from: Geroth;32309

Just a question, does anybody here worship, pray to or work with any of the Proto-Indo-European gods and goddesses? I've always found them intriguing.

Not with the gods, but I've incorporated aspects of Ceisiwr Serith's work into my religious worldview, especially the Xartus as the proto-world tree. I understand that it's mainly speculation, but I personally think we don't have any more information on Celtic and Brythonic religion than we do on PIE religion, so I like Serith's work as a model of good spectulation and what we can do with pre-Christian cultures where we're missing a lot of information. F'ex, the Xartus and its relationship to the world tree and the hazel of five streams has helped me to fill in some gaps with some speculation that works for me. Same with creating my own creation myths from the tiny tiny hints we may have in related cultures' myths. (Although I have lots more work to do there.)

I've also found the possible portraits of PIE deities interesting, whether or not it's any more than speculation. Thinking about archetypes from which other cultures may have drawn their deities, such as cow goddesses vs mare goddesses, has helped me to see different sides of my deities. I use the ideas as I do my own tracing back and speculating about where they might have come from.

Sophia C · « **Reply #17 on:** August 25, 2015, 06:47:24 am »

Quote from: FraterBenedict;179130

Has anyone of you read Emily Lyle's book Ten Gods: A New Approach to Defining the Mythological Structures of the Indo-Europeans? It isn't available at any of the libraries in my part of the world, so I don't know anything about it except the title. Since Dumezil is refuted since decades ago, it would be interesting what theories are coming in his stead.

That's been on my wishlist for a while - hoping to find a cheap second-hand copy of it at some point. It does look interesting. I'd like to have more knowledge of the basics of a few theories on the subject.

Apollodorus · « **Reply #18 on:** August 27, 2015, 05:01:19 pm »

Quote from: Geroth;32309

Just a question, does anybody here worship, pray to or work with any of the Proto-Indo-European gods and goddesses? I've always found them intriguing.

Recently i found some theory of our specie to be more Neanderthal rather than homo sapiens. And that the religion had a lot to do with bears and the whole symbolism that people used later came from that era. She(the author) never pointed out her references so i'm not sure if she's making thing up or talking seriously.

http://ancestralcult.com/forebears/

Weatherwax · « **Reply #19 on:** August 27, 2015, 09:33:49 pm »

Quote from: Apollodorus;179313

Recently i found some theory of our specie to be more Neanderthal rather than homo sapiens. And that the religion had a lot to do with bears and the whole symbolism that people used later came from that era. She(the author) never pointed out her references so i'm not sure if she's making thing up or talking seriously.

http://ancestralcult.com/forebears/

I don't know what it is that makes you cross paths but: "A research organisation aiming to revive the European Philosophy and Religion (by V. Vikernes and M. Cachet)" should ring some bells?

Marie Cachet is Vikernes's wife, by the way.

Weatherwax · « **Reply #20 on:** August 27, 2015, 09:45:36 pm »

Quote from: Apollodorus;179313

Recently i found some theory of our specie to be more Neanderthal rather than homo sapiens.

Modern non-African humans have about 1 to 4% Neanderthal ancestry and that's probably the idea they're after. However, ALL hominins came out of Africa at one time or another in history, some earlier, some later.

This link is a better source: http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics/ancient-dna-and-neanderthals/interbreeding

Apollodorus · « **Reply #21 on:** August 28, 2015, 07:27:18 am »

Quote from: Weatherwax;179316

I don't know what it is that makes you cross paths but: "A research organisation aiming to revive the European Philosophy and Religion (by V. Vikernes and M. Cachet)" should ring some bells?

Marie Cachet is Vikernes's wife, by the way.

I'm still watching their videos to come to a conclusion. There is some truth in their ideas for sure, but the fact that they never mention the origin of a theory they are explaining, gives me some doubts.

Concerning the primitive men, even though we know very little about them we should accept the fact that the main deity/goddess/power was something like mother earth since there were many symbols concerning fertility both in nature and women.
For example in Crete, Cyclades and main country there was the deity of woman with two snakes in hands. Along with some other symbols representing the womb of woman which was common in nordic cultures as well. Even though we know that they were more primitive than Greeks at the time they had the same symbols

Tom · « **Reply #22 on:** August 28, 2015, 08:12:41 am »

Quote from: Apollodorus;179325

For example in Crete, Cyclades and main country there was the deity of woman with two snakes in hands. Along with some other symbols representing the womb of woman which was common in nordic cultures as well. Even though we know that they were more primitive than Greeks at the time they had the same symbols

I would be very careful in calling the Minoans "primitive". The archaeological record would seem to posit otherwise.

Weatherwax · « **Reply #23 on:** August 28, 2015, 08:39:10 am »

Quote from: Apollodorus;179325

I'm still watching their videos to come to a conclusion. There is some truth in their ideas for sure, but the fact that they never mention the origin of a theory they are explaining, gives me some doubts.

Of course there would be no sources for their theories because they're unfounded. We're talking about Varg Vikernes and his wife, it's their fantasy pseudo-history for the 'Northern races.' I'm curious as to what truths you have found in their ideas.

Weatherwax · « **Reply #24 on:** August 28, 2015, 08:44:15 am »

Quote from: Tom;179327

I would be very careful in calling the Minoans "primitive". The archaeological record would seem to posit otherwise.

Exactly. Minoans were not primitive, they had a very sophisticated way of life from what archaelogical evidence tells us. Plus, they had a writing system which the conquering Myceaneans borrowed and used for their own language (Apollodorus; you know of Linear A and Linear B, I'm sure as you're from Greece.) The Indo-European Myceaneans share some symbols and ideas with the Minoans because they learned and borrowed them. I don't know which symbols you're talking about exactly but some concepts are pretty universal to human culture as a whole anyway.

Apollodorus · « **Reply #25 on:** August 28, 2015, 09:13:20 am »

Quote from: Weatherwax;179330

Exactly. Minoans were not primitive, they had a very sophisticated way of life from what archaelogical evidence tells us. Plus, they had a writing system which the conquering Myceaneans borrowed and used for their own language (Apollodorus; you know of Linear A and Linear B, I'm sure as you're from Greece.) The Indo-European Myceaneans share some symbols and ideas with the Minoans because they learned and borrowed them. I don't know which symbols you're talking about exactly but some concepts are pretty universal to human culture as a whole anyway.

Maybe my English are not good enough to express my thoughts. I was trying to make a comparison with "more primitive Northmen compared to Minoans" to show that maybe they did not have such a complicated religion compared to later periods of Greek culture and religion but they still were an astonishing advanced civilization for their time.

PS: I believe that Minoans in some ways were more advanced than we are today.

Weatherwax · « **Reply #26 on:** August 28, 2015, 09:39:25 am »

Quote from: Apollodorus;179333

Maybe my English are not good enough to express my thoughts. I was trying to make a comparison with "more primitive Northmen compared to Minoans" to show that maybe they did not have such a complicated religion compared to later periods of Greek culture and religion but they still were an astonishing advanced civilization for their time.

Ok, I'm confused. Which Northmen are you talking about? Astonishingly advanced civilization for their time compared to whom? Certainly not compared to Mesopotamia, Egypt, Crete, Aegean, Asia Minor, China.

All civilizations are a product of their own time and resources -or lack thereof in terms of resources.

Quote

PS: I believe that Minoans in some ways were more advanced than we are today.

I don't know which ways you mean but I'd beg to differ.

The only thing that comes to mind is their culture's apparent lack of staunch patriarchy. We don't know that for sure either but material evidence suggests this theory (though not necessarily a matriarchy, mind you.)

The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum

News:

Recent Posts

Author Topic: Proto-Indo-European religion (Read 8590 times)

dionysos

Re: Proto-Indo-European religion

Sophia C

Re: Proto-Indo-European religion

Sophia C

Re: Proto-Indo-European religion

Apollodorus

Re: Proto-Indo-European religion

Weatherwax

Re: Proto-Indo-European religion

Weatherwax

Re: Proto-Indo-European religion

Apollodorus

Re: Proto-Indo-European religion

Tom

Re: Proto-Indo-European religion

Weatherwax

Re: Proto-Indo-European religion

Weatherwax

Re: Proto-Indo-European religion

Apollodorus

Re: Proto-Indo-European religion

Weatherwax

Re: Proto-Indo-European religion

Related Topics

Who's Online

Please Donate!

Shop & Support TC

In Memoriam

Cauldron Staff