collapse

* Recent Posts

« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Proto-Indo-European religion  (Read 8593 times)

Geroth

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 96
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
Proto-Indo-European religion
« on: November 30, 2011, 04:59:18 am »
Just a question, does anybody here worship, pray to or work with any of the Proto-Indo-European gods and goddesses? I've always found them intriguing.
Logged

RandallS

  • Site Admin
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: NE Ohio
  • Posts: 10311
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 296
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Re: Proto-Indo-European religion
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2011, 08:18:45 am »
Quote from: Geroth;32309
Just a question, does anybody here worship, pray to or work with any of the Proto-Indo-European gods and goddesses? I've always found them intriguing.

Considering next to nothing is known about them (even their names are mostly reconstructions based on linguistics), that would be hard to do in any real detail.
Logged
Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog]: Microlite74/75/78/81, BX Advanced, and Other Old School Tabletop RPGs
Microlite20: Lots of Rules Lite Tabletop RPGs -- Many Free

Katefox

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 127
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Proto-Indo-European religion
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2011, 12:22:17 pm »
Quote from: Geroth;32309
Just a question, does anybody here worship, pray to or work with any of the Proto-Indo-European gods and goddesses? I've always found them intriguing.

 
Is there actually any information about Proto-Indo-European Gods?  Proto-Indo-European, the language, is, as far as I understand, completely a reconstruction, working backwards from Indo-European languages we actually have a good amount of data on, and that the language reconstruction was more a conjecture, i.e. the theory is that all Indo-European languages evolved from a single language, and this is what we think it would look like, given what we know of sound changes.  If there is actual archeological evidence of a Proto-Indo-European people, that would be very interesting.  Does such exist?
Logged

Asch

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 883
  • Total likes: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Proto-Indo-European religion
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2011, 04:33:10 pm »
Quote from: Katefox;32342
Is there actually any information about Proto-Indo-European Gods?  Proto-Indo-European, the language, is, as far as I understand, completely a reconstruction, working backwards from Indo-European languages we actually have a good amount of data on, and that the language reconstruction was more a conjecture, i.e. the theory is that all Indo-European languages evolved from a single language, and this is what we think it would look like, given what we know of sound changes.  If there is actual archeological evidence of a Proto-Indo-European people, that would be very interesting.  Does such exist?

 
There are some books out there Deep Ancestors by Ceisiwr Serith is highly recommended. ADF (http://www.adf.org) incorporates aspect of IE and PIE culture and religions but a lot of it is educated guesswork.
Logged

Aster Breo

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 2990
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 144
    • View Profile
Re: Proto-Indo-European religion
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2011, 01:58:32 am »
Quote from: Asch;32407
There are some books out there Deep Ancestors by Ceisiwr Serith is highly recommended. ADF (http://www.adf.org) incorporates aspect of IE and PIE culture and religions but a lot of it is educated guesswork.

 
I have Serith's book, and -- while I haven't read it cover to cover (yet) -- I do think it's definitely worth the read for anyone interested in PIE religions.

Serith's website also has some good, if less detailed, info.
Logged
"The status is not quo."  ~ Dr. Horrible

Robertus_

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2011
  • Posts: 5
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Proto-Indo-European religion
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2011, 01:13:14 am »
Quote from: Geroth;32309
Just a question, does anybody here worship, pray to or work with any of the Proto-Indo-European gods and goddesses? I've always found them intriguing.

 
Serith's work is very good, but his work is incomplete and filled with (good) speculation.

We simply know next to nothing about that era's religious History.
Logged

Nomad of Nowhere

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 47
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Proto-Indo-European religion
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2012, 09:16:47 pm »
Quote from: Geroth;32309
Just a question, does anybody here worship, pray to or work with any of the Proto-Indo-European gods and goddesses? I've always found them intriguing.

I consider Perun to be one manifestation of a PIE deity, same as Indra and Tarhun. To date though, the only deity that seems to consistently show himself in a recognizable form in many Indo-European mythologies is the dragon-slaying or dragon-imprisoning storm God. This is a motif that's surprisingly universal, and it shows up in some Slavic folklore as well. (e.g.,the slovenian Kresnik, and Bulgarian tale "the three brothers and the golden apples.")

I suppose there are some others as well. For instance, the Lithuanian Asvieniai are almost certainly related to the Vedic Ashwins. There are also a lot of Indo-European Goddesses named "Dawn" like Eos, Ausrine, Ushas, etc. For the most part though, the other Gods aren't as easily recognizable in multiple mythologies.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 09:18:28 pm by Nomad of Nowhere »
Logged

dionysos

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Posts: 21
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Proto-Indo-European religion
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2015, 03:02:52 pm »
Quote from: Geroth;32309
Just a question, does anybody here worship, pray to or work with any of the Proto-Indo-European gods and goddesses? I've always found them intriguing.

 
I am drawn to the PRE-Indo-European Gods and Goddess (Shiva and his Greek counterpart Dionysos) which is even harder to find information about.
Logged

RecycledBenedict

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2015
  • Posts: 851
  • Total likes: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Proto-Indo-European religion
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2015, 05:50:41 pm »
Quote from: dionysos;179123
I am drawn to the PRE-Indo-European Gods and Goddess (Shiva and his Greek counterpart Dionysos) which is even harder to find information about.


Since PIE religion is a reconstruction, it is hardly surprising that more than one theory is circulating. According to M.L. West's Indo-European Poetry and Myth the equivalent of Shiva in Greek religion, is not Dionysos, but Apollo. Other Indo-European gods thought to have evolved from the same root as Shiva and Apollo are the Celtic Lugus/Lugh and the Norse O∂in.
Logged

RecycledBenedict

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2015
  • Posts: 851
  • Total likes: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Proto-Indo-European religion
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2015, 05:58:47 pm »
Quote from: Nomad of Nowhere;38577
I consider Perun to be one manifestation of a PIE deity, same as Indra and Tarhun. To date though, the only deity that seems to consistently show himself in a recognizable form in many Indo-European mythologies is the dragon-slaying or dragon-imprisoning storm God. This is a motif that's surprisingly universal, and it shows up in some Slavic folklore as well. (e.g.,the slovenian Kresnik, and Bulgarian tale "the three brothers and the golden apples.")

I suppose there are some others as well. For instance, the Lithuanian Asvieniai are almost certainly related to the Vedic Ashwins. There are also a lot of Indo-European Goddesses named "Dawn" like Eos, Ausrine, Ushas, etc. For the most part though, the other Gods aren't as easily recognizable in multiple mythologies.


Yes, but a dragon slaying storm god is not an exclusively Indo-European theme either. Set and Horus protect the ship of the Sun god from the cosmic snake Apophis in Egyptian religion. The Babylonian storm god Marduk slays the sea serpent Tiamat, Mother of the gods, and becomes the ruler of the gods in a very Zeus-like manner. Neighbours of the Hittites, the non-Indo-European Hurrians, told stories about the storm god Teshub. Fragments of a myth from Syro-Phoenician Ugarit tells how storm god Baal defeats sea god Yam and death god Mot, with some assistance from the war goddess Anat. The myth pops up everywhere, even outside Indo-European speaking areas.
Logged

RecycledBenedict

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2015
  • Posts: 851
  • Total likes: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Proto-Indo-European religion
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2015, 06:05:42 pm »
Quote from: Asch;32407
There are some books out there Deep Ancestors by Ceisiwr Serith is highly recommended. ADF (http://www.adf.org) incorporates aspect of IE and PIE culture and religions but a lot of it is educated guesswork.


Has anyone of you read Emily Lyle's book Ten Gods: A New Approach to Defining the Mythological Structures of the Indo-Europeans? It isn't available at any of the libraries in my part of the world, so I don't know anything about it except the title. Since Dumezil is refuted since decades ago, it would be interesting what theories are coming in his stead.
Logged

RecycledBenedict

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2015
  • Posts: 851
  • Total likes: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Proto-Indo-European religion
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2015, 06:21:19 pm »
Quote from: Asch;32407
There are some books out there Deep Ancestors by Ceisiwr Serith is highly recommended. ADF (http://www.adf.org) incorporates aspect of IE and PIE culture and religions but a lot of it is educated guesswork.


Have I mentioned Calvert Watkin's book How to kill a dragon?
Logged

Kaio

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 114
  • Total likes: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Proto-Indo-European religion
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2015, 06:25:26 pm »
Quote from: FraterBenedict;179128
Yes, but a dragon slaying storm god is not an exclusively Indo-European theme either. Set and Horus protect the ship of the Sun god from the cosmic snake Apophis in Egyptian religion. The Babylonian storm god Marduk slays the sea serpent Tiamat, Mother of the gods, and becomes the ruler of the gods in a very Zeus-like manner. Neighbours of the Hittites, the non-Indo-European Hurrians, told stories about the storm god Teshub. Fragments of a myth from Syro-Phoenician Ugarit tells how storm god Baal defeats sea god Yam and death god Mot, with some assistance from the war goddess Anat. The myth pops up everywhere, even outside Indo-European speaking areas.

 This remembered me Witzel's notion of Laurasian and Gondwana mythologies.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 06:28:53 pm by Kaio »
Logged
When in Rome do as the Romans do. (Ambrose)

RecycledBenedict

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2015
  • Posts: 851
  • Total likes: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Proto-Indo-European religion
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2015, 06:39:15 pm »
Quote from: Kaio;179132
This remembered me Witzel's notion of Laurasian and Gondwana mythologies.

There is nothing in the comparative observations I relates, that necessitate the extreme time depth Witzel hypothesise. All my examples are from the Bronze Age or early Iron Age Levant, not Ice Age Africa (which is impossible, since writing is a Bronze Age invention).
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 06:48:42 pm by RecycledBenedict »
Logged

RecycledBenedict

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2015
  • Posts: 851
  • Total likes: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Proto-Indo-European religion
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2015, 06:52:37 pm »
Quote from: Kaio;179132
This remembered me Witzel's notion of Laurasian and Gondwana mythologies.


It will be interesting by time to see if Witzel will become the Frazer of our time, or if some elements of his Magnum Opus will turn out to be lasting and well founded building blocks for a new and better theory. I very doubt that his theory will stand unmodified. Research doesn't work like that (and to do Witzel justice: He admits that himself).
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
3 Replies
3171 Views 		Last post July 31, 2012, 06:02:43 pm
by RandallS
0 Replies
1575 Views 		Last post October 05, 2012, 01:28:24 pm
by Materialist
4 Replies
1957 Views 		Last post December 21, 2012, 09:17:32 pm
by Jenett
1 Replies
1887 Views 		Last post April 07, 2013, 05:24:29 pm
by Heliocoptero
9 Replies
2291 Views 		Last post November 11, 2018, 02:44:21 pm
by Eastling

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 339
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Allaya, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Ashmire, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

'Up All Night' Coordinator:
Altair

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Chatelaine, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal