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Author Topic: TWS: Elements Path  (Read 7421 times)

Fier

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TWS: Elements Path
« on: October 21, 2011, 07:00:47 pm »
Discuss topics and experiences specific to the Elements Path of The Twelve Wild Swans here.

Some things to get us started:

1. The book suggests that what we've lost is our connection with nature. Bad history and myths of lost matriarchal societies aside, how do you feel about that statement? Do you agree or disagree? If you agree, how has it been lost?

2. Do you feel that creating sacred space is a necessary or helpful part of personal ritual? What is your definition of sacred space?

3. How do you feel about the ideas of Talking Self, Younger Self, and Deep Self? Are these useful metaphors to you?

4. How do you feel about working with the elements? Do you feel more connected with one over the others?

5. How do you feel about the exercises? Do you plan to do them? Are there ones that do not seem useful or relevant? Once you have done them, how did it go? Was it helpful? Did you learn or feel anything?

6. Which parts of the chapter did you struggle the most with? Which parts were easy?

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Re: TWS: Elements Path
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2011, 04:37:28 am »
Quote from: FierFlye;26840

1. The book suggests that what we've lost is our connection with nature. Bad history and myths of lost matriarchal societies aside, how do you feel about that statement? Do you agree or disagree? If you agree, how has it been lost?


Tho' I'm not working on the Elements Path with the book, I think I give my pov to some of these questions anyway. ;)

The question is tricky. Because they are more levels to it, so it can't be answered with a 'yay' or 'nay'.

For one thing there is an estrangement for most humans in our way of life. Caused by the misunderstanding of separation. But Human is part of nature. Human is animal. So - in that regard - we can not really lose the connection to nature, because nature is ingrained in us. We have instincts, we function to animal behaviour patterns, that are common to all of the human species.

The losing of connection happened in our oh so highly praised brains.
We do 'think' we are above nature. We do 'think' we are not animals. We do 'think' we are not part of this world. In the consequence of this, we don't feel the pain and damage we cause to the web, we are part of. Either we trivialize nature and nature connection, or we play it down to a haughty 'Mama Earth' way, or we ignore it.

What we really lost is not the connection. It's the awareness. The understanding.

Quote from: FierFlye;26840

2. Do you feel that creating sacred space is a necessary or helpful part of personal ritual? What is your definition of sacred space?


In earlier days, I would've thought it necessary. More out of the feeling of needing protection. Now I think that special places are nice and practical, because they help us to connect easier, if we use them consistently. And it does make sense to cut out a special area to access the Underworld within its circumferences.

Quote from: FierFlye;26840

3. How do you feel about the ideas of Talking Self, Younger Self, and Deep Self? Are these useful metaphors to you?


I don't think it is a metaphor, but its the way our threefold soul is organized. Just found the very beautiful names of 'Surface Walker', 'Dream Walker' and 'Star Walker' for it in Orion Foxwood's book.

The concept of the three selves is surfacing in different systems and for me it makes absolute sense.

Quote from: FierFlye;26840

4. How do you feel about working with the elements? Do you feel more connected with one over the others?

 
If you'd asked me this a few years ago I might have said: yes, fire and earth. But after working with the elements for so long now, I think I balanced out. ;)

The element work itself is something I really like and think beneficial.
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Fier

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Re: TWS: Elements Path
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2011, 08:45:05 am »
Quote from: FierFlye;26840

1. The book suggests that what we've lost is our connection with nature. Bad history and myths of lost matriarchal societies aside, how do you feel about that statement? Do you agree or disagree? If you agree, how has it been lost?

I agree to some extent. Tana makes a good point about being a part of nature. But I think many of us have lost our knowledge of nature cycles, how food is grown, how different ecosystems are important, ect.

Quote
2. Do you feel that creating sacred space is a necessary or helpful part of personal ritual? What is your definition of sacred space?

I would say that all space is sacred. But designating a space for ritual, even temporarily, I can see that being helpful.

Quote
3. How do you feel about the ideas of Talking Self, Younger Self, and Deep Self? Are these useful metaphors to you?
I think I have lost Younger Self and Deep Self. So it could be helpful to work to find them

Ran out of time; I'll answer the rest later.

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Re: TWS: Elements Path
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2011, 01:04:22 pm »
Quote from: FierFlye;26840
...

1. The book suggests that what we've lost is our connection with nature. Bad history and myths of lost matriarchal societies aside, how do you feel about that statement? Do you agree or disagree? If you agree, how has it been lost?


(It actually took some significant work for me not to close the book and shelve it during the Mother Goddess & matriarchal society discourse.)

Western civilization, as a whole, has created a situation in which one must actively cultivate connection with nature - it is no longer a given.  Most of our routine activities are not connected to the rotation of the planet, or the phase of the moon, or our revolution around the sun.

However, I don't think connection to nature is the be-all, end-all thing we're missing...nor do I think it is the only thing that needs to be fixed.

Quote
2. Do you feel that creating sacred space is a necessary or helpful part of personal ritual? What is your definition of sacred space?


I think for some people, in some situations, it can be helpful, and I agree that it is a good "life skill"...for lack of better terminology.  I've not cast a circle in years, since my current path doesn't require it.  However, when I do speak with my gods, I am in sacred space - my mindset becomes sacred rather than making sacred "physical" space.

Quote
3. How do you feel about the ideas of Talking Self, Younger Self, and Deep Self? Are these useful metaphors to you?


The metaphors are useful for me, although for some reason I dislike the term "Younger Self".  I don't disagree with the description, though.  To me, Younger Self is selfish - it is what it wants, all is reality, all is NOW, NOW, NOW.

Quote
4. How do you feel about working with the elements? Do you feel more connected with one over the others?


I have a hard time connecting with Earth.  Fire, Water, and Air come more easily.  I have a feeling that this is because, to me, transformation comes through Fire, or Water, or Air - all of them flow, all change from moment to moment.  Earth seems less active and less transient somehow - and my Self worries about stagnation and being backed into corners.

Quote
5. How do you feel about the exercises? Do you plan to do them? Are there ones that do not seem useful or relevant? Once you have done them, how did it go? Was it helpful? Did you learn or feel anything?


I've not decided on whether to do the exercises yet, but I probably will.  I will not be incorporating any group work.

Quote
6. Which parts of the chapter did you struggle the most with? Which parts were easy?


The most difficult part was realizing that the concepts could be useful in spite of my not being a "Goddess-Worshiper".  Once I got over that hump, the rest of the chapter went more easily.
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Re: TWS: Elements Path
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2011, 05:57:42 pm »
Quote from: FierFlye;26840
Discuss topics and experiences specific to the Elements Path of The Twelve Wild Swans here.

Some things to get us started:

1. The book suggests that what we've lost is our connection with nature. Bad history and myths of lost matriarchal societies aside, how do you feel about that statement? Do you agree or disagree? If you agree, how has it been lost??


I don't know about the collective we, but I have.  I find myself doing things like looking on the computer to see how cold it is instead of just stepping out the front door.  Sometimes I go an entire weekend without leaving my house at all.  And it is sapping me and my health.

Quote
2. Do you feel that creating sacred space is a necessary or helpful part of personal ritual? What is your definition of sacred space?


Yes, it is necessary to clear my head and get out of the crazy hectic head space I inhabit a lot to get anything out of rituals.  That's why I love Shabbat.  It is complete peace, a time out of time.

Quote
3. How do you feel about the ideas of Talking Self, Younger Self, and Deep Self? Are these useful metaphors to you?


Not so useful to me.  A little too much like Id, Ego, Superego for my tastes.

Quote
4. How do you feel about working with the elements? Do you feel more connected with one over the others?


I've always felt more connected with earth, but since I've been reframing some of the elements with a Jewish framework, I think that I might be more successful at connecting with air than I ever have before.  Breath is a form of air, and breath is connected directly to spirit for us.  Our spirit literally came to us when God breathed life into us.  Our spirit is the breath of God.
5. How do you feel about the exercises? Do you plan to do them? Are there ones that do not seem useful or relevant? Once you have done them, how did it go? Was it helpful? Did you learn or feel anything?

6. Which parts of the chapter did you struggle the most with? Which parts were easy

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Re: TWS: Elements Path
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2011, 05:59:52 pm »
Quote from: Sperran;27278
6. Which parts of the chapter did you struggle the most with? Which parts were easy

 
Ooops, missed this one.  I will have to come back for this one.

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Re: TWS: Elements Path
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2011, 11:55:35 pm »
Quote from: FierFlye;26840

4. How do you feel about working with the elements? Do you feel more connected with one over the others?

I feel like I'm a water and earth person. Air is the most difficult for me. I don't quite grok all the associations, and don't feel very connected at all.

I've actually been flailing a bit with it for the past week. I've been thinking about how the region in which I live is very wet and earthy. And flat. Yeah, we have wind, but it's just not very 'airy'. When I was in Colorado, on top of a mountain, THAT was air. I felt it there. Here, I struggle with how to connect.

Tonight I had a mini breakthrough. After my riding lesson I was walking the horses back to the barn when another rider points to the sky. The aurora borealis. :eek: Whoa.

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Re: TWS: Elements Path
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2011, 09:47:00 am »
Quote from: FierFlye;27367
I feel like I'm a water and earth person. Air is the most difficult for me. I don't quite grok all the associations, and don't feel very connected at all.

 
I recently had a breakthrough with air as well, when I realized that air is breath and, in my tradition our souls and spirits are literally composed of God's breath.  So that essence that cannot be touched and makes me the person I am is connected with air.

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Re: TWS: Elements Path
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2011, 09:54:23 am »
Quote from: FierFlye;27367
... I don't quite grok all the associations, and don't feel very connected at all...


You might need to toss out the associations the authors use and find your own.  I cannot connect Air to knowledge, f'ex, but I have no trouble when I connect it to life, or transformation, or journeying.
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Fier

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Re: TWS: Elements Path
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2011, 10:19:52 am »
Quote from: FierFlye;26840

5. How do you feel about the exercises? Do you plan to do them? Are there ones that do not seem useful or relevant? Once you have done them, how did it go? Was it helpful? Did you learn or feel anything?

 
Last night I practiced circle casting and the grounding exercise.

What I got from the grounding exercise was this: I can play around over here, I can play around over there, I can move this way or that way, but I'm not going to fall over because I'm firmly rooted. I'm safe and secure. Also: it's important to grow a foundation before spreading out.

The circle casting I did three times, with three different tools (a wooden wand, a bicycle spoke, and a bamboo staff). I didn't invoke any energies or spirits, I just focused on creating the container and taking it down. I didn't notice any different between the tools; I didn't really care much for any of them. I didn't really notice any change in the space with or without a circle. I did feel like something was missing from the act of casting, but I'm not sure what.

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Re: TWS: Elements Path
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2011, 11:10:58 am »
Quote from: FierFlye;27610
I did feel like something was missing from the act of casting, but I'm not sure what.


Since I was not there I can't help much with what was missing.
When I cast a circle I call on my allies, I have kinda quarter totems, this usually changes energy at once. Just providing a space otoh, I'm not sure, if I would feel much with that.

When I create a circle, I call on the powers. When I don't create a circle, I work within my own auric field. So there is a difference. Sorry, I am rambling, I can't find the right words atm. :(
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Fier

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Re: TWS: Elements Path
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2011, 12:17:12 pm »
Quote from: Tana;27618
Since I was not there I can't help much with what was missing.

 
I suspect part of the problem was that there was no point to the working other than practicing. I've often heard the act of casting a circle for ritual compared to making dinner. "In order to boil water you have to use a pot". Basically all I was doing was taking out the pot and putting it on the stove and then putting it away again. I didn't put in any water or noodles. ;) So it felt kind of silly and pointless. BUT, that is okay, because my intent was just to practice those steps in preparation for later ritual.

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Re: TWS: Elements Path
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2011, 12:53:56 pm »
Quote from: FierFlye;27625
I suspect part of the problem was that there was no point to the working other than practicing. I've often heard the act of casting a circle for ritual compared to making dinner. "In order to boil water you have to use a pot". Basically all I was doing was taking out the pot and putting it on the stove and then putting it away again. I didn't put in any water or noodles. ;) So it felt kind of silly and pointless. BUT, that is okay, because my intent was just to practice those steps in preparation for later ritual.

 
It's possible to feel energy just from the circle cast - but I think it's a lot harder out of context (both out of context of a ritual, or out of context with a larger practice.)

I've thrown up a circle (just the circle, none of the prep steps, none of the following stuff like calling quarters or inviting deities) as a demo before for various people, and the weight of all the other similar circles I've been in gets carried with that working, so it's much easier to feel.

(I also have a much longer and highly opinionated theory about how proper circle construction needs to be rooted into every part of the working, which is mostly not relevant here.)
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Re: TWS: Elements Path
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2011, 10:51:18 pm »
Quote from: FierFlye;26840
1. The book suggests that what we've lost is our connection with nature. Bad history and myths of lost matriarchal societies aside, how do you feel about that statement? Do you agree or disagree? If you agree, how has it been lost?


Simple answer: I do agree. I feel we've lost our connection by forgetting that we are a part of nature, not apart from it. When we forget our connection to nature, to the earth, we cannot interact with it easily. Even if we spend all the time in the world learning the cycles of nature or memorizing plant names and medicinal uses, if we don't see ourselves as part of the great cycle, we'll never really connect with it.

Everything is interconected. But we can't truly know that until we include ourselves into "everything." So it's about unlearning what the master narrative has taught for so long.

Quote from: FierFlye;26840
2. Do you feel that creating sacred space is a necessary or helpful part of personal ritual? What is your definition of sacred space?


Yes. I actually find that sacred space is just important for me to live, really.

Example: I let a friend stay in my place for a week while I was out of town, visiting my boyfriend. When I got home, the energy of my place felt completely wrong. I felt...as if it had been invaded and taken advantage of. (This is mostly because my friend has horrible manners as a guest, but also because his energies had disrupted the energies of the house for a week.) I wasn't comfortable to sleep or even do anything until I'd burned some sage and cleansed the place energetically; I was upset and frenetic.

My house is sacred. I don't let certain people in because of their energies. This is where I sleep, eat, read, write, and can just be myself. It's sacred space for the act of being me.

So when it comes to ritual, yes, I believe setting up sacred space is important, if only because it's so important to everything else I do in my life. My definition of sacred space is being in a place where you feel safe. Whatever that means to you is individual. For me I feel very safe in the woods, and some cemeteries (not all, however -- some have energies that really want me dead).

Quote from: FierFlye;26840
3. How do you feel about the ideas of Talking Self, Younger Self, and Deep Self? Are these useful metaphors to you?


They're not metaphors to me; they're an example of the Threefold Soul. However, in this example I see them as going down to reach divinity instead of reaching up (as with Sticky One, Shining Body, and Sacred Dove, the Triple Soul talked about in T. Thorn Coyle's Evolutionary Witchcraft). When I worked with Thorn's Triple Soul, the Sacred Dove sat above me, opening up to the sky. When I imagine the Threefold Soul talked about in Starhawk's work, Deep Self is down in the earth.

Neither is better than the other; I think working with each just opens one up to different sorts of divine energies.

Quote from: FierFlye;26840
4. How do you feel about working with the elements? Do you feel more connected with one over the others?


In order of my connectedness with the elements: Earth, Fire, Water, Air.

I chose to work with the Elements Path because when I went to Witchcamp, I didn't take that course -- I'm happy with the course I took, but I feel that my education is lacking in not having taken it. I felt I needed to get in deeper touch with the elements so I could move onto things like the Iron Pentacle. I need to do deep healing, but something is telling me I need to go back to basics first.

So I'm glad the first chapter started with Air, because I have troubles with that element. I've now opened myself to the dawn twice, and I'm hoping to do it again tomorrow. (Yay winter dawn times.) After I feel in touch with Air/dawn/east, I'll work on Fire/south/noon, then Water/sunset/west, then Earth/midnight/north.

I'm going to be practicing casting circles and inviting the elements, too.

Quote from: FierFlye;26840
5. How do you feel about the exercises? Do you plan to do them? Are there ones that do not seem useful or relevant? Once you have done them, how did it go? Was it helpful? Did you learn or feel anything?


Yep. I've been doing the directions exercise. Working on dawn/east. I definitely felt something deep and amazing. It was like I could see all the words in the universe, and knew each of them intimately.

Quote from: FierFlye;26840
6. Which parts of the chapter did you struggle the most with? Which parts were easy?


I actually didn't struggle with any parts of chapter 1, but I also didn't read the Inner Path or Outer Path bits. I noticed something as I flipped to chapter 2 about working with Ancestors, and I foresee that will be a challenge for me.

Most of the stuff in the Elements Path part of Chapter 1 are basic Reclaiming things, which I'm already familiar with. It's as I'm getting into the later chapters that I'm finding stuff I haven't done, or that I'm not familiar with, and those things may present challenges.
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Re: TWS: Elements Path
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2011, 12:12:22 pm »
Quote from: FierFlye;26840
1. The book suggests that what we've lost is our connection with nature. Bad history and myths of lost matriarchal societies aside, how do you feel about that statement? Do you agree or disagree? If you agree, how has it been lost?


I do happen to agree. I think the losing has a lot to do with the commentary about the patriarchal society taking over. I don't think that's it entirely, though.

I think a lot of it, also, has to do with the Church, which I don't consider to be an aspect of the patriarchal society. I've always seen the Church as its own entity that has patriarchal leanings, but isn't due entirely to the patrilineal lifestyles that developed after matrilineal societies fell.

I appreciate and enjoy the fact that the Church was a strong influence in these peoples' lives and that it kept society together. I also appreciate that it kept a lot of ancient principles, myths, and other information. However, I feel that in its ruthless lust for power, we lost a lot of the connection with nature. It became wrong and illegal, so to speak, to commune with animals and plant life. Wise women were denigrated and treated wrongly. The lust for power that enveloped the Church, I feel, is the main cause to this loss.

I haven't gotten to the rest of the sacred space section or the parts after this, so I'll wait to answer the next questions until I get there. :p
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