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Author Topic: Feeling worse the next day...why?  (Read 1928 times)

Hippie-Witch

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Feeling worse the next day...why?
« on: April 27, 2017, 05:22:59 pm »
I felt great during the new moon.

So good, in fact, that I decided to do a ritual for the first time in a while.

I just did a very very simple cleansing of my home, burned bay leaves with intentions written on them, and meditated for about an hour. I used sage, incense, and essential oils to cleanse, I made sure to actually place emotional intentions into the leaves before burning them, and I meditated to a recording of a beautiful chant that I was directed to a few years ago. (Ek Ong Kaar Sat Gur Prasad) When I finished I placed an amethyst and selenite crystal in my pillow to help me sleep later that night.

I left my space feeling good, but then I tried to do an oracle card reading to get insight into the first steps that I should take in order to see my intentions brought to life. I got basically nonsense.
Then when I slept I had a nightmare. Things flying around out of control, reckless behavior that led to some personal things about me being brought to light. Things that I keep to myself because I know if other people knew it would change the way they thought of me.

I was up by 4:30 am with my heart racing, basically in full panic attack. It took hours for those uneasy feelings to settle; they are actually still with me a little now.

My question is:
If I cleansed my home and meditated why on earth was I filled with so much negative energy and emotion hours later? This has happened to me before when I've done energy work and I don't understand it. I did a meditation in a group a few months back ending in the calyx and my body shook for hours. Not in a super pumped and energized way either.

Does anyone else feel worse after ritual or practice? Does anyone have any insight on why this might be happening to me?

Sorry about the length of the post, but if someone could give me some insight I would be very grateful <3

Edit- A little more info about me: I am depressed, anxious, and deal with suicidal thoughts daily. I don't know if that could affect the outcome. I also did a simple spell for manifesting money when my fiance and I had very little and it worked....kind of. Our truck was fine in the end, but we got like $3000 because someone vandalized it. It happened 3 days after the spell so I'm thinking that was the outcome. It just seems like I'm making wishes with a monkey's paw whenever I try to do anything myself...whyyy
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 06:17:35 pm by Jenett »
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Re: Feeling worse the next day...why?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2017, 08:13:20 pm »
First, we don't mind long posts at all I am queen of long posts, and this reply is going to be long, too.

I do have a couple of tips at the end to help with formatting longer posts so they're easier to read. (I also added some whitespace to your original post to help with that.)

Quote from: Hippie-Witch;205575

I just did a very very simple cleansing of my home, burned bay leaves with intentions written on them, and meditated for about an hour. I used sage, incense, and essential oils to cleanse, I made sure to actually place emotional intentions into the leaves before burning them, and I meditated to a recording of a beautiful chant that I was directed to a few years ago. (Ek Ong Kaar Sat Gur Prasad) When I finished I placed an amethyst and selenite crystal in my pillow to help me sleep later that night.


I'm going to go pretty deeply into analyzing this in the hopes that breaking it down into much smaller pieces will help you figure out both what happened this time, and what you might want to consider next time.

Simple or not simple:
This is not a ritual I'd describe as very very simple. It both takes a fairly significant amount of time (over an hour), and it has at least 5 different significant ritual actions. That's not the most complicated ritual out there, but it's a lot more complicated than a ritual that's 15 minutes and has one or two specific ritual actions.

The good news is that if you're concerned about how this went, one really good thing to try is look at your reactions to different pieces of this individually over time (on other days when you start out feeling pretty good).

I have some guesses (below) about which part might have been particularly likely to be the bit that unsettled you so badly, but when something goes weirdly, breaking it down into smaller parts is often a good idea.

Think about it like making a new recipe: if you're using a bunch of skills you haven't used before, there's different places something might go oddly. Sometimes you might not notice at the time, but if you go back and do each new skill by itself, you'll be more likely to realise what's going on.

Influences:
There's a lot of different influences going on in this ritual, based on your list:

  • Your starting state (body, mind, circumstances, etc.)
  • Bay leaves
  • Meditation method
  • Specific chant (I'll come back to that)
  • Sage
  • Incense
  • Multiple essential oils
  • Amethyst
  • Selenite


Using multiple things in ritual can be really good - but it can also add a lot of confusion or energetic clutter.

Often - especially if you want to keep things simpler - it can be a lot better to use one or two specifically focused things (like, pick one or two of incense, essential oils, stones, sage, a specific chant), and then some neutral ones if you feel like you need more.)

(More neutral things might include energetic cleansing work - more on that in a moment - or salt. Or the selenite is something I'd consider fairly neutral for stones in the sense it often doesn't bring a lot of its own specific energy to a situation.

Some people consider sage fairly neutral: I tend to treat it more as a 'gives you further options, but it still flavours stuff, just like if you put it in chicken stock')

Also, longer can be good, but it can also mean there's (a lot more) time for your mind or focus to wander, or your intentions to shift a bit. That's not always bad (sometimes it's totally appropriate to change something part way through) but it can complicate things.

That chant:
I wasn't familiar with the chant you mentioned, so I did a little research.

Several sources mention that it's both specifically associated with Kundalini energy, and that it's a chant many sources footnote with a warning, because it can have unexpected and unpleasant effects if done incorrectly. (Are you familiar with Kundalini energy and the theories behind it? Please ask, if not, and I or someone else can help with an explanation.)

You can see why my guess is that this might be part of why things went particularly weird on you. Things I wonder about, reading your comments here:

- You said you were introduced to this chant before, but not whether you've used it for meditation before. (And if so, how that went.)

- What your familiarity is with both the meaning of the chant (both the words and the context they're used in its original source)

- What you were focusing on during the meditation. The chant's words by itself? Their translation? A particular intention? Something else?

Overall, I'm very careful about borrowing chants or religious music for use in ritual from other religions or practices, because I've had one too many personal experiences with that going badly. (Or just 'not what I expected, wow'.)

Other thing I wonder about:
One thing I notice you don't mention at all is any personal energy management - the things my path calls centering, grounding, and cleansing.

If you're not including those or something similar as part of your practice, they're things that might be helpful to you, but they're also especially useful for some ideas on how to do some of your goals here (and so might work better for you if you try something again.)

Articles on my website with more detail about all three (see the 'energetic self care' one for the cleansing) under the core skills section on this page.

In particular, centering and grounding after ritual work are a good idea in many witchcraft traditions, because they help us rebalance after doing more complicated things.

Ok, that's the long bit, on to briefer comments on other sections.

Quote
I left my space feeling good, but then I tried to do an oracle card reading to get insight into the first steps that I should take in order to see my intentions brought to life. I got basically nonsense.


Sometimes, a nonsense reading can be a 'not a well-formed question' or 'good question, wrong time' thing. But in this case, after a ritual (especially one you haven't done in that form much, or that feels like a stretch) that's a time when I personally would be looking at it as a sign of needing to do some more centering and grounding work.

In general, that racing, panicky feeling is a sign for a lot of people that grounding might be a good move (not the only one of course: the grounding article referenced earlier has a bunch of other symptoms, some of which can be pretty individual. For me one of the big signs I really need to ground is getting lost or losing track of where I am in physical space.)

Food, a little salt under the tongue (or a bath with salt in it), grounding meditations, use of a stone specifically for grounding, are all some things you can do to help, but often just deliberately doing something Not Like Your Ritual that isn't too meditative/trance inducing helps a lot.

Quote
I also did a simple spell for manifesting money when my fiance and I had very little and it worked....kind of. Our truck was fine in the end, but we got like $3000 because someone vandalized it. It happened 3 days after the spell so I'm thinking that was the outcome. It just seems like I'm making wishes with a monkey's paw whenever I try to do anything myself...whyyy


Some of this might be what you're doing. There's a lot of money circulating in the planet, but with money spells (and things like "I want a job") there's a finite number of ways you as a specific person might get more money in your life quickly, you know?

So if you're pushing at the universe for that outcome (as opposed to magic to help you manage the money you have better, or long-term magic to improve your income like helping with a raise or a new job or something) and there isn't some obvious form (someone already owed you money and hasn't paid it back, you're not expecting a check from a relative for a birthday or special something), there's got to be an unusual but possible way for it to show up.

A bunch of the 'unusual but possible' options look like what you describe.

(That's possibly a topic for a different thread.)
 
Post formatting:
A couple of tips that should help:

First, it's extremely helpful to put a blank line at least every 4-6 lines of text. This makes blocks of text a lot easier to read on the screen (and especially for people who are reading on phones or smaller screens.)

Second, if you need to add information and it's been more than a minute or so, we ask that you add it in a new post. Some forums don't like that, but here, we ask people to not make any significant content edits if it's been more than 2-3 minutes, though you have a bit longer to fix typos, etc.See the first 'don't' rule here. That's because a number of people may already have read the original post if it's been much longer than that.

Beyond that, different kinds of formatting can help with reading long posts (like my bold header, here) but that's very much a personal style sort of thing.

Also, when you quote posts, it's very helpful to just trim to the part you specifically want to quote, like I've done here. (We require you to quote a message briefly, but you don't have to leave everything in.)

If you're quoting multiple parts of the same message, like I am here, leave the first quote code the way it is when you reply (this will link to the message you're quoting, and is part of our rules) and then put /quote in square brackets at the end. To quote other pieces, do quote in square brackets at the beginning, and /quote in square brackets at the end. (like you see when you start a post and the initial quote codes are in place, roughly.)
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Abigail

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Re: Feeling worse the next day...why?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2017, 08:49:20 pm »
Quote from: Hippie-Witch;205575
Does anyone have any insight on why this might be happening to me?

 
My first thought was regarding the bay leaves, how many did you burn and were there any windows open/did you inhale the smoke? This because bay leaves contain oil that has effects on the central nervous system.
There is a legend about oracle Delphi inhaling the smoke to get visions, for example.
Although I have no personal experiences with bay smoke, so I can't confirm the tales, it could be one possible explanation for your dream and emotions after that.

Regarding the emotional intentions you put on the leaves to burn them. Assuming you burned those to invoke/work with those intentions, could it be that you may have overdone it and accidentally caused too many emotional "waves" to come back all at once?
Burning is used for both invoking and releasing things, which brings me to intent. Like I said I was assuming you burned with the intent to invoke but did you state/voice/visualize your intent with the burning clearly?

Intent also comes to mind when it comes to your money spell. Example, I can ask for a lot of money, but if I leave it that open, it could come as an insurance payout after having been badly hurt in an accident for example if I wasn't clear enough in my intent. I can still receive what I asked for but possibly in a way that is not that desirable. Intent is so so important.

When it comes to the cleansing, Jenett already asked the same question that was on my mind, regarding cleansing yourself, grounding and centering.
My own situation was more ocd and depression related, but for quite a long time I did a daily center-and-breathe session and it really helped me to stop being an emotional pinball machine.

Hippie-Witch

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Re: Feeling worse the next day...why?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2017, 09:37:38 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;205586
I'm going to go pretty deeply into analyzing this in the hopes that breaking it down into much smaller pieces will help you figure out both what happened this time, and what you might want to consider next time.


Thank you so much Jenett!

Quote
Simple or not simple:
This is not a ritual I'd describe as very very simple. It both takes a fairly significant amount of time (over an hour), and it has at least 5 different significant ritual actions. That's not the most complicated ritual out there, but it's a lot more complicated than a ritual that's 15 minutes and has one or two specific ritual actions.


:ashamed: I guess I just assumed it was simple because I didn't get it from a book. I just did a bunch of things that I knew how to do. I suppose a 3 hour long ritual (which is how long it ended up taking) of any sort, even one without difficult incantations or things to remember, is not "simple".

Quote
Influences:
Often - especially if you want to keep things simpler - it can be a lot better to use one or two specifically focused things (like, pick one or two of incense, essential oils, stones, sage, a specific chant), and then some neutral ones if you feel like you need more.)

Also, longer can be good, but it can also mean there's (a lot more) time for your mind or focus to wander, or your intentions to shift a bit. That's not always bad (sometimes it's totally appropriate to change something part way through) but it can complicate things.


This makes a lot of sense. I've been reading, practicing, and going to classes/events for a few years but I still for sure identify as a baby witch. I don't really know what I'm doing. I hear "this is good for this" and I think I should grab everything on the list instead of just one or two things from the list. I'll keep this in mind for next time. :)

Quote

That chant:
Several sources mention that it's both specifically associated with Kundalini energy, and that it's a chant many sources footnote with a warning, because it can have unexpected and unpleasant effects if done incorrectly...

- You said you were introduced to this chant before, but not whether you've used it for meditation before. (And if so, how that went.)


I have used it a few times. It's been both positive and negative in the past.
My thought this time was to use more the intention of clearing energy than just listening and focusing on the words. Didn't seem to work in my favor.

Quote

- What your familiarity is with both the meaning of the chant (both the words and the context they're used in its original source)


I am familiar with Kundalini energies, but I would hardly say I'm any level of an expert on it. I really adore eastern teachings, but I literally took one of their most powerful chants with only a base level of knowledge.

Gabrielle Bernstein's books were my first introduction into "A Course in Miracles", Kundalini yoga, and the teachings of Yogi Bhajan. After a while I found her...I don't know how to describe it. I used to get inspiration from her and then for some reason her words began to fall flat on my ears. From that point I would read up on Kundalini energy, chakras, and general metaphysics on my own.

It is something I used to study more and then moved towards western paganism, but I will still read up on it from time to time. At the end of the day I feel as though I should stick to spirituality not based in a culture that I do not have roots in. However, there is still a part of me that feels like they have answers no one else does. I'm kind of torn here.

Hopefully that made any sense. I'm sorry if it did not.

Quote

Other thing I wonder about:
One thing I notice you don't mention at all is any personal energy management - the things my path calls centering, grounding, and cleansing.

Articles on my website with more detail about all three (see the 'energetic self care' one for the cleansing) under the core skills section on this page.


Thank you so much! I will read up on that and will most likely add it to my next ritual. I really appreciate it. I've always knows about "casting a circle" but it never felt organic to me so I never wanted to do it. I really appreciate the resource. I've had hallucinations and panic attacks during meditation as well (on other occasions) grounding and centering sounds like something that may work well for me.

Quote

Some of this might be what you're doing. There's a lot of money circulating in the planet, but with money spells (and things like "I want a job") there's a finite number of ways you as a specific person might get more money in your life quickly, you know?


That makes sense. I don't know what I was hoping for. I was just asking to be able to get through the Christmas season in one piece. It worked out great for us in the end. It was just a little strange.

Quote
Post formatting......

 
Thank you :) I'll make sure to follow those more closely.
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Hippie-Witch

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Re: Feeling worse the next day...why?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2017, 09:49:54 pm »
Quote from: Abigail;205587
My first thought was regarding the bay leaves, how many did you burn and were there any windows open/did you inhale the smoke? This because bay leaves contain oil that has effects on the central nervous system.
There is a legend about oracle Delphi inhaling the smoke to get visions, for example.
Although I have no personal experiences with bay smoke, so I can't confirm the tales, it could be one possible explanation for your dream and emotions after that.


Oh jeeze. I only burned 4, but maybe. I'm an incredibly sensitive person when it comes to anything that effects the body. I hope that wasn't it, but it's always a possibility. :sick:

Quote

Regarding the emotional intentions, you put on the leaves to burn them. Assuming you burned those to invoke/work with those intentions, could it be that you may have overdone it and accidentally caused too many emotional "waves" to come back all at once?


I was just about in a trance-like state right from the beginning. I was extremely focused and feeling my entire body during the entire thing. It's very possible I just put out too much energy. My last leaf was an especially emotionally charged one.

Quote

Burning is used for both invoking and releasing things, which brings me to intent. Like I said I was assuming you burned with the intent to invoke but did you state/voice/visualize your intent with the burning clearly?


There is always the fear that maybe I let my mind wander, but I don't remember doing so. I believe I stood true with my intentions. Mostly visualization.

Quote
Intent also comes to mind when it comes to your money spell. Example, I can ask for a lot of money, but if I leave it that open, it could come as an insurance payout after having been badly hurt in an accident for example if I wasn't clear enough in my intent. I can still receive what I asked for but possibly in a way that is not that desirable. Intent is so so important.


Yeah..I should have been more specific. I always worry that being specific cuts you off from things that are better for you/meant for you that you didn't realize you need.

Like, a spell for a promotion when really you should take the leap to quit and start your own buisness. The strong desire for a promotion resists the energy that would help you start on your own thing. Maybe that isn't how things work though.
I would love to hear your opinion on that.

Quote
When it comes to the cleansing, Jenett already asked the same question that was on my mind, regarding cleansing yourself, grounding and centering.
My own situation was more ocd and depression related, but for quite a long time I did a daily center-and-breathe session and it really helped me to stop being an emotional pinball machine.

 
That sounds absolutely lovely. I'm going to read up on that and maybe I'll give that a try. A smaller daily practice sounds like something that would have the best affect on someone with mental illness.

Thank you very much :):):)
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Something

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Re: Feeling worse the next day...why?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2017, 12:02:45 pm »
Quote from: Hippie-Witch;205575
I felt great during the new moon.

So good, in fact, that I decided to do a ritual for the first time in a while.

I just did a very very simple cleansing of my home, burned bay leaves with intentions written on them, and meditated for about an hour. I used sage, incense, and essential oils to cleanse, I made sure to actually place emotional intentions into the leaves before burning them, and I meditated to a recording of a beautiful chant that I was directed to a few years ago. (Ek Ong Kaar Sat Gur Prasad) When I finished I placed an amethyst and selenite crystal in my pillow to help me sleep later that night.

I left my space feeling good, but then I tried to do an oracle card reading to get insight into the first steps that I should take in order to see my intentions brought to life. I got basically nonsense.
Then when I slept I had a nightmare. Things flying around out of control, reckless behavior that led to some personal things about me being brought to light. Things that I keep to myself because I know if other people knew it would change the way they thought of me.

I was up by 4:30 am with my heart racing, basically in full panic attack. It took hours for those uneasy feelings to settle; they are actually still with me a little now.

My question is:
If I cleansed my home and meditated why on earth was I filled with so much negative energy and emotion hours later? This has happened to me before when I've done energy work and I don't understand it. I did a meditation in a group a few months back ending in the calyx and my body shook for hours. Not in a super pumped and energized way either.

Does anyone else feel worse after ritual or practice? Does anyone have any insight on why this might be happening to me?

Sorry about the length of the post, but if someone could give me some insight I would be very grateful <3

Edit- A little more info about me: I am depressed, anxious, and deal with suicidal thoughts daily. I don't know if that could affect the outcome. I also did a simple spell for manifesting money when my fiance and I had very little and it worked....kind of. Our truck was fine in the end, but we got like $3000 because someone vandalized it. It happened 3 days after the spell so I'm thinking that was the outcome. It just seems like I'm making wishes with a monkey's paw whenever I try to do anything myself...whyyy

I agree with the fact that inhaling the bay leaves fumes can have effects on the body, from what I can gather as long as you protected yourself and used a single bay leaf for your wish then it all seems fine to me, I have used a bay leaf spell before very similar to how you did and got exactly what I asked for, if you were banishing negativity and said so on the leaf then it could just be that what you felt was all of that dark energy leaving your soul, if this was the case then roughly 24hrs or so after you should be feeling better and cleansed. Oh if the crystals were inside your circle during ritual there's a chance the negativity could have been stored in them, if you have more nightmares tonight with them under your pillow then that's probably your answer and so you should Burry them in your garden..don't panic
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 12:09:06 pm by Something »

Jenett

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Re: Feeling worse the next day...why?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2017, 10:09:52 pm »
Quote from: Hippie-Witch;205589

It is something I used to study more and then moved towards western paganism, but I will still read up on it from time to time. At the end of the day I feel as though I should stick to spirituality not based in a culture that I do not have roots in. However, there is still a part of me that feels like they have answers no one else does. I'm kind of torn here.


This is definitely one of those things where, when sources in that tradition have warnings on using a thing, to be really careful.

Sometimes that's for reasons about honouring the source, or the culture it comes from (which are important and good things by themselves!)

But it's also sometimes that if you take one thing out of context, you lose all the safety precautions and preparation and so on from that thing, that make it a useful practice and turn it into something a lot more risky.

I tend to think that anything that's trying to do deliberate things with your energy like Kundalini falls into that category. (And especially something like Kundalini where there's been a lot of appropriation and misinformation out there from Western sources about it, to start.)

The same thing can happen with all kinds of ritual practices: I don't know if you remember the sweatlodge deaths at a New Age retreat in 2009, but I wrote up two blog posts talking about some related issues in a lot more detail that might be helpful to you in thinking about what happens if you take some pieces of a practice without their context and precautions, just on a really practical level. The first part is here and the second part is here.

Quote
I've had hallucinations and panic attacks during meditation as well (on other occasions) grounding and centering sounds like something that may work well for me.


I am a huge fan of centering and grounding (and some very general routine energetic cleansing things, equivalent to 'cleansing the physical body') as great ongoing habits.
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Wisp

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Re: Feeling worse the next day...why?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2017, 12:32:02 am »
It is something I used to study more and then moved towards western paganism, but I will still read up on it from time to time. At the end of the day I feel as though I should stick to spirituality not based in a culture that I do not have roots in. However, there is still a part of me that feels like they have answers no one else does. I'm kind of torn here.

I hope you don't mind me chiming in on just this section; I don't want to completely derail the topic or anything.

In my opinion, I feel like the idea that only practicing religion or traditions based on roots, while well intentioned, might be a more harmful mindset than good. In a way, it forces isolation from other cultures, only sticking to your own culture, instead of reaching out and trying to understand someone else's.

I feel cultural exchange and dialogue is good, and that most people do have the ability to truly understand what someone from another culture is saying, and if we didn't, well, there wouldn't have been trade between cultures on a worldwide level, nor would anyone else have bothered to learn each other's languages. Not to mention, long practiced traditions throughout the world are slowly disappearing as technology becomes more developed. I feel it's important to keep traditions and stories alive, and that everyone who truly feels passionate to do so, should do their best to help in a respectful manner.

Furthermore, I believe that Gods and Goddesses can transcend cultures, not only by showing up in different forms from one culture to another, but calling out to people from different races and nationalities at their own will. I feel that we, as humans, shouldn't be trying to dictate who a deity wants to show up with.

So really, I say you can continue doing what you are doing, though it may not be a bad idea to spend some extra time researching, and feeling the waters, so to speak, of the energies between different practices of different cultures. If you follow a deity/deities, maybe try asking them about how they feel about it, too.

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* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Allaya, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Ashmire, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

'Up All Night' Coordinator:
Altair

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Chatelaine, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall

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