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Author Topic: Syncretizing deities or other entities  (Read 2750 times)

EclecticWheel

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Syncretizing deities or other entities
« on: April 14, 2017, 02:08:47 pm »
Have you ever syncretized two or more deities or entities?  How did you go about it?

I have pondered whether to do this at some point in the future.  In my personal practice with a few odd exceptions I worship and pray to humans, saints and some dead people in popular culture.

Something about my psyche equates God(s) with humans -- probably my Christian background.

I have thought of a couple of ways to do this: syncretizing an entity (from whatever source -- myth, fiction, what have you) with a saint, syncretizing it with another human, or even syncretizing it with a fictional human.

Most likely I would choose a deity that appears in many guises across cultures such as Death.  And then the (new?) deity would fit well into my religious system.

Have you tried anything similar?
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

sevensons

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Re: Syncretizing deities or other entities
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2017, 02:41:46 pm »
Quote from: EclecticWheel;204915
Have you ever syncretized two or more deities or entities?  How did you go about it?

I have pondered whether to do this at some point in the future.  In my personal practice with a few odd exceptions I worship and pray to humans, saints and some dead people in popular culture.

Something about my psyche equates God(s) with humans -- probably my Christian background.

I have thought of a couple of ways to do this: syncretizing an entity (from whatever source -- myth, fiction, what have you) with a saint, syncretizing it with another human, or even syncretizing it with a fictional human.

Most likely I would choose a deity that appears in many guises across cultures such as Death.  And then the (new?) deity would fit well into my religious system.

Have you tried anything similar?

 
Been trying this with myself and a great warrior I have felt there toughness and am working on taking away the weakness which seems to be going all right. absolutely worth while  project and hasn't cost to much money.
Awaken myself alive and well loving to start learning today ahead a challenge set by the Gods. Haven't

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Re: Syncretizing deities or other entities
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2017, 04:05:25 pm »
Quote from: EclecticWheel;204915
Have you ever syncretized two or more deities or entities?  How did you go about it?


That seems to suggest that you're thinking of it as a conscious, deliberate process, rather than something like "This god shows up wearing that god's pants", or "you know, it turns out these theologies are weirdly near-identical, huh, how does that work".

Quote
Most likely I would choose a deity that appears in many guises across cultures such as Death.  And then the (new?) deity would fit well into my religious system.

 
... I'm not sure that Death appears as a deity in most systems.  I mean, there are gods of governing the dead, gods of getting the dead to where they go, gods of judgement of the dead, dead gods, and so on, but death-as-a-god?  Not so popular.  I can think of, um.  Santa Muerte.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

EclecticWheel

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Re: Syncretizing deities or other entities
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2017, 05:35:45 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;204921
That seems to suggest that you're thinking of it as a conscious, deliberate process, rather than something like "This god shows up wearing that god's pants", or "you know, it turns out these theologies are weirdly near-identical, huh, how does that work".


 
... I'm not sure that Death appears as a deity in most systems.  I mean, there are gods of governing the dead, gods of getting the dead to where they go, gods of judgement of the dead, dead gods, and so on, but death-as-a-god?  Not so popular.  I can think of, um.  Santa Muerte.

 
I was thinking of Thanatos which I thought of as a personification of death but maybe I was wrong.  I am only beginning to get familiar with Greek mythology.  The others I had in mind may very well be "gods of" rather than personifications, but couldn't that distinction be sort of blurry?

I have never syncretized a deity from a myth though something similar happened with one figure I revere which is where I obtained the idea.

In that case it was very much at least in part a conscious process.  I drew from various stories from my childhood to form a concept of a particular entity and began praying and making offerings.  From there unconscious processes took over -- the entity did not always bend to my expectations.  Eventually I identified him with a certain human and wrote a story embodying what he's all about.

So it started off as an intentional effort and took on a life of its own afterward.  For me this is an easier way to find gods, as those from other cultures do not come to life for me the same way or feel as close or relatable, and this way I can integrate them into my own rituals fairly easily.

I've wondered if others did anything similar with ancient deities as I am unsure what differences might be involved from what I did.  I suppose drawing on an idea associated with a god is different from actually meshing two deities together.  I will have to think about this more.
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

Sefiru

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Re: Syncretizing deities or other entities
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2017, 06:55:13 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;204921

... I'm not sure that Death appears as a deity in most systems.  I mean, there are gods of governing the dead, gods of getting the dead to where they go, gods of judgement of the dead, dead gods, and so on, but death-as-a-god?  Not so popular.  I can think of, um.  Santa Muerte.

 
There's a few options if you go the pop-culture paganism route; Sandman Death and Discworld Death might count.
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Louisvillian

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Re: Syncretizing deities or other entities
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2017, 01:01:29 am »
Quote from: EclecticWheel;204915
Have you ever syncretized two or more deities or entities?

I am primarily a Roman reconstructionist, and the Romans had a tendency to syncretise gods from other cultures with their own. But in spite of that, I do not make a habit of deliberately syncretising different gods. I personally tend towards a harder-polytheist notion of each god being a separate entity. But sometimes I get wibbly, on a case-by-case basis: for instance, I do believe that Hermes and Mercury are the same, while I believe that Diana and Artemis are completely different.
Jupiter and Zeus is an area I get fuzzy about. A fellow Roman recon phrased it to me like this: Jupiter is not so much a single god than he is a role that many gods fill. Jupiter is a numen, a spirit or an essence, one that can be embodied by different gods--thus, the Jupiter of the Greeks is Zeus, while the Jupiter of the Gauls is Taranis, et al. I tend towards this view more and more.

EclecticWheel

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Re: Syncretizing deities or other entities
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2017, 11:19:14 am »
Quote from: Louisvillian;204960
I am primarily a Roman reconstructionist, and the Romans had a tendency to syncretise gods from other cultures with their own. But in spite of that, I do not make a habit of deliberately syncretising different gods. I personally tend towards a harder-polytheist notion of each god being a separate entity. But sometimes I get wibbly, on a case-by-case basis: for instance, I do believe that Hermes and Mercury are the same, while I believe that Diana and Artemis are completely different.
Jupiter and Zeus is an area I get fuzzy about. A fellow Roman recon phrased it to me like this: Jupiter is not so much a single god than he is a role that many gods fill. Jupiter is a numen, a spirit or an essence, one that can be embodied by different gods--thus, the Jupiter of the Greeks is Zeus, while the Jupiter of the Gauls is Taranis, et al. I tend towards this view more and more.

 
My approach is non-realist, but I do think of deities as distinct in that they are distinct constellations of associations, concepts, cultural ideas.  Thus in the event that one draws on various inspirations and begins treating the resulting ideas as an entity or god one can meaningfully say this is a new god.
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

Sobekemiti

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Re: Syncretizing deities or other entities
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2017, 12:26:18 pm »
Quote from: EclecticWheel;204915
Have you ever syncretized two or more deities or entities?  How did you go about it?

I have pondered whether to do this at some point in the future.  In my personal practice with a few odd exceptions I worship and pray to humans, saints and some dead people in popular culture.

Something about my psyche equates God(s) with humans -- probably my Christian background.

I have thought of a couple of ways to do this: syncretizing an entity (from whatever source -- myth, fiction, what have you) with a saint, syncretizing it with another human, or even syncretizing it with a fictional human.

Most likely I would choose a deity that appears in many guises across cultures such as Death.  And then the (new?) deity would fit well into my religious system.

Have you tried anything similar?

 
I hesitate to call it syncretism, because that doesn't quite feel right for this. I have come to refer to it as a constellation of related but separate entities that share enough of a common thread of energy and historical connections to make sense together. An 'in the same vicinity of each other' type of thing, but still separate beings. It had its birth in a shared 'Queen of Heaven, Star of the Sea' epithet exploration, and has grown since then.

This constellation currently contains Isis/Aset, Hekate, Renenutet, Mary, Quanyin, and Tara. This is very much my own constellation, though, and I can't say anyone else would find this meaningful in the same way I do. But there's something here that is important to me, so that's what I keep working at with these beings to see what it is They need me to learn by delving into Them and Their relationships with each other.
Sobekemiti | Hekatean Witch, Kemetic Orthodox Shemsu, Sobek Devotee | My pronouns are they/she

EclecticWheel

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Re: Syncretizing deities or other entities
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2017, 01:27:54 pm »
Quote from: Sobekemiti;204968
I hesitate to call it syncretism, because that doesn't quite feel right for this. I have come to refer to it as a constellation of related but separate entities that share enough of a common thread of energy and historical connections to make sense together. An 'in the same vicinity of each other' type of thing, but still separate beings. It had its birth in a shared 'Queen of Heaven, Star of the Sea' epithet exploration, and has grown since then.

This constellation currently contains Isis/Aset, Hekate, Renenutet, Mary, Quanyin, and Tara. This is very much my own constellation, though, and I can't say anyone else would find this meaningful in the same way I do. But there's something here that is important to me, so that's what I keep working at with these beings to see what it is They need me to learn by delving into Them and Their relationships with each other.

 
So you work with them sort of like a personal pantheon without actually interacting with them as a new merged entity, yes?
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

Sobekemiti

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Re: Syncretizing deities or other entities
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2017, 01:45:40 pm »
Quote from: EclecticWheel;204969
So you work with them sort of like a personal pantheon without actually interacting with them as a new merged entity, yes?


Yes, though whether I'd call it a pantheon is debatable. It's not really how I think of it. But yes, that's mostly it. I feel like there's some core energy at the heart of all of this, though what that is, and how it manifests, and whether it's something I could ever connect with, I don't know. It's that common thread of energy that joins all these beings together. This isn't like a pantheon, because there are plenty of beings that don't fit. Artemis and Selene, for example, had historical syncretisms with Hekate, but they don't belong here. Hathor and Isis, not included here. Isis-Aphrodite, not included either. There's a very specific sort of energy thread that I experience with these gods in particular and no one else, so a constellation makes about as much sense as anything else.

And there are historical syncretisms that are adding to this thread. Isis and Hekate and Renenutet and Mary and from there Quanyin and Tara. It's not necessarily a linear thread; there are connections between and within this lot, so it's more like a web. Which is why I call it a constellation. Isis-Hekate was a thing, Isis-Renenutet was a thing, Isis and Mary was a thing,  Mary and Quanyin was a thing, Quanyin and Tara, those historical links are still there, feeding this constellation.
 
I suspect I would probably go down a more singularly unifying syncretic pathway if I was less of a hard polytheist, and would probably end up seeing them as as manifestations of Tara, or perhaps another being. But I'm not like that, that's not really how I've experienced the gods, so. Separate gods in a constellation it is.
Sobekemiti | Hekatean Witch, Kemetic Orthodox Shemsu, Sobek Devotee | My pronouns are they/she

EclecticWheel

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Re: Syncretizing deities or other entities
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2017, 11:12:32 pm »
Quote from: EclecticWheel;204967
My approach is non-realist, but I do think of deities as distinct in that they are distinct constellations of associations, concepts, cultural ideas.  Thus in the event that one draws on various inspirations and begins treating the resulting ideas as an entity or god one can meaningfully say this is a new god.

 
Okay, here's an example of what I meant by syncretizing entities which may be more like character creation than than syncretism.

Papa Ghede, one of the loa, is the first man who died.  Now that is interesting to me, but I prefer to work with entities within my specific system.  It's just easier to me.  So drawing on that idea I could for my character imagine that (s)he is the first sentient entity who ever died in the universe -- so maybe a space alien for all I know.

Then I would think of associations for the character.  Depending on what I came up with and if I wanted to relate it through a human lens I may come up with a human the character can be related through.  But there are exceptions to my tendency to worship humans, and in this case I may look for another form or image for the character in pop culture.  Or maybe make this a new take on the Grim Reaper.  Or even relate it to Death in the Tarot.

When I have some basic ideas I start praying.  If I get a response from my subconscious, the god, or whatever -- I'm pretty agnostic atheist -- based on my one previous experience the whole thing may then take on a life of its own even contrary to my expectations.  Sort of like writing fiction, really.

So some ideas may come from other religions or gods, but this is more like calling on a new god (or subconscious forces) by creating associations, images, and traits and seeing if someone shows up willing to have a relationship through those characteristics.  And depending on the relationship some of those characteristics will in all likelihood evolve.
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Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

Louisvillian

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Re: Syncretizing deities or other entities
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2017, 04:06:04 am »
Quote from: EclecticWheel;204967
My approach is non-realist, but I do think of deities as distinct in that they are distinct constellations of associations, concepts, cultural ideas.  Thus in the event that one draws on various inspirations and begins treating the resulting ideas as an entity or god one can meaningfully say this is a new god.

I don't see those as mutually exclusive concepts. I think that Chaos Magic in particular has some nifty ideas on how entities can come into being through human effort. I think that there are other possibilities in between--an existing entity develops more personality traits, attributes, or even interests, due to its interaction with human beings over time. Especially given that so many gods hold sway over very human experiences, like warfare, agriculture, craftsmanship, etc.

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Re: Syncretizing deities or other entities
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2017, 01:18:05 pm »
Have you ever syncretized two or more deities or entities?  How did you go about it?


Yes... and I have gone about it by combining my own spiritual-religious instincts and inclinations with my own imagination and Weltanschauung, and by reaching out deep into the cosmos above and within- into the primordial waters where gods are born- and by harnessing what I feel to be the greatest power of God(s)-the power of Creation- to create Outer Forms for the Essence of God(s).  The Outer Form is not the Essence, but a vessel harboring the Numinous, something unique to each culture who experiences God(s), and unique to the interior universe of every individual who experiences God(s).  Understanding this allows me to experience two deities as one, if it is my Will... but more importantly, grants me the ability- and the honor- to give life and form to unfathomable deific forces above and below and within.



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𒊩𒆪  𒂔𒇸𒀝  𒄿𒈨

Jainarayan

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Re: Syncretizing deities or other entities
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2017, 04:17:53 pm »
Have you ever syncretized two or more deities or entities?  How did you go about it?

I've come close but never actually made it stick.

1. Thor and Indra. Both are gods of thunder, lightning, both are warriors, both like a certain drink (ale for Thor, soma for Indra), both battled a fearsome serpent (Thor and Jormungandr, Indra and Vrtra (no, I didn't misspell Vrtra :D)). There are two differences. One time Indra was jealous of Krishna when Krishna told his countrymen to stop worshiping the Vedic gods. Indra got really pissy and began to send torrential rains to drown the country. Krishna would have none of it, so he lifted the nearby hill with his finger, and held it over the people and their farms like an umbrella. Lord Indra got punked and soon learned whom he was dealing with. Another difference is that Indra is king of Heaven, Thor is not.

2. Hanuman and the Monkey King from Journey to the West.

3. Guan yu the Chinese god of war and Kartikeya the Hindu god of war. They are gods of protective and defensive, not offensive of blood lust war. Some Taoist temples do have statues of each on either side of the altar.

4. The Jade Emperor and Indra, both are kings of Heaven.

5. The Tao and Brahman.

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Re: Syncretizing deities or other entities
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2017, 12:22:28 pm »
Have you ever syncretized two or more deities or entities?  How did you go about it?
I personally sometimes experience some overlap between deities (f.ex. Artemis and Hekate). I've also had situations with deities in spirit journeys where I wasn't exactly sure which one it was because the attributes could fit to several deities of different pantheons. But I've never consciously done the syncretisation.

I tend to research several deities and their counterparts from other pantheons and that helps my understanding of them, but when I call them or do offerings I tend to focus on one deity and also think about what aspect of that deity I want to work with on that particular situation (Artemis has several aspects f.ex.: self reliance, hunt, protection, death, survival...)

In group ritual we sometimes decide to work with more than one deity, but we don't syncretize them. F.ex. it could be that on the coming ritual person 1 thanks deity a for the harvest of the year and person 2 thanks deity b...

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