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Author Topic: Learning magic tricks  (Read 3152 times)

sevensons

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Re: Learning magic tricks
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2017, 07:53:18 am »
Quote from: Pickle;204939
Depends on how one views aspects of stage magic I guess - for instance the distraction aspect which forms such a large part of stage magic.  Without this distraction the stage magic would fail, but one needs to be really rather skilled, dextrous, and have great stage presence to pull it off convincingly.  Is this a sort of magic?  Perhaps it is.

For instance, personally, I'm a really big fan of Derren Brown's stuff, he's really clever, fascinating and convincing.  Assuming he doesn't use stooges in the audiences (which he claims he doesn't) then I really have no idea how he accomplishes some of his 'mind reading' type tricks.

Interestingly, Brown is also a really big sceptic and would be among the first (I suspect) to criticise/decry the sort of magic we're discussing here.

 
The trouble without knowing and absorbing into the body such peoples magic it is very difficult to desorb from ones body.
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PerditaPickle

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Re: Learning magic tricks
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2017, 09:46:36 am »
Quote from: sevensons;204941
The trouble without knowing and absorbing into the body such peoples magic it is very difficult to desorb from ones body.

 
I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by that.  I'm not sure I personally have much more I can add to this discussion based on your OP, but feel free to clarify your statement above if you want.
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Sorcha

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Re: Learning magic tricks
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2017, 09:49:02 am »
Quote from: Pickle;204939
Depends on how one views aspects of stage magic I guess - for instance the distraction aspect which forms such a large part of stage magic.  Without this distraction the stage magic would fail, but one needs to be really rather skilled, dextrous, and have great stage presence to pull it off convincingly.  Is this a sort of magic?  Perhaps it is.

For instance, personally, I'm a really big fan of Derren Brown's stuff, he's really clever, fascinating and convincing.  Assuming he doesn't use stooges in the audiences (which he claims he doesn't) then I really have no idea how he accomplishes some of his 'mind reading' type tricks.

Interestingly, Brown is also a really big sceptic and would be among the first (I suspect) to criticise/decry the sort of magic we're discussing here.

 
Yeah, my impression is that stage magicians look at what they do as a highly technical skill and would probably be rather offended by the idea that any sort of occult magic was needed to achieve it.


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PerditaPickle

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Re: Learning magic tricks
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2017, 10:25:26 am »
Quote from: Sorcha;204943
Yeah, my impression is that stage magicians look at what they do as a highly technical skill and would probably be rather offended by the idea that any sort of occult magic was needed to achieve it.

 
Yeah possibly, Derren Brown who I mentioned would likely be a good example (I strongly suspect).
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sevensons

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Re: Learning magic tricks
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2017, 10:52:20 am »
Quote from: Sorcha;204943
Yeah, my impression is that stage magicians look at what they do as a highly technical skill and would probably be rather offended by the idea that any sort of occult magic was needed to achieve it.

 
Everything is not black and white there is a deeper meaning behind all magic and hypnotic magicians affect the audience. unless people can out wit them they are under a spell.
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Re: Learning magic tricks
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2017, 01:44:12 pm »
Quote from: Sorcha;204943
Yeah, my impression is that stage magicians look at what they do as a highly technical skill and would probably be rather offended by the idea that any sort of occult magic was needed to achieve it.

 
I'm actually friends with two stage magicians - one who does mostly local horror-themed shows, and one who is a full-time professional. The former would probably find it hilarious if people thought he had occult powers because he's a spooky weirdo, but the latter would be entirely nonplussed, yeah. Both of them are the most skeptical human beings I've ever met. There's just something about spending your life tricking people that makes you side-eye the occult.

Sorcha

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Re: Learning magic tricks
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2017, 01:50:26 pm »
Quote from: Emma Eldritch;204948
I'm actually friends with two stage magicians - one who does mostly local horror-themed shows, and one who is a full-time professional. The former would probably find it hilarious if people thought he had occult powers because he's a spooky weirdo, but the latter would be entirely nonplussed, yeah. Both of them are the most skeptical human beings I've ever met. There's just something about spending your life tricking people that makes you side-eye the occult.

 
I watched a several-hour-long documentary on stage magic recently, and they went so far as to say that shamans were essentially sleight-of-hand masters who had practiced so long and taken so many drugs that they were self deceived (they were nicer about it than that, but that was the implication). The documentary was itself fascinating, but I was like wow.... that's harsh. But it displays a skeptical attitude for sure.

I can't figure out what stage magic and what I do have to do with each other at all considering there's no illusion going on at all. I'm just doing private esoteric stuff on an altar in my apartment. Lots of candles and herbs and oils and such, but no trickery whatsoever because what would be the point? I'm the only one there.


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Re: Learning magic tricks
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2017, 10:54:40 pm »
Quote from: Sorcha;204949
I watched a several-hour-long documentary on stage magic recently, and they went so far as to say that shamans were essentially sleight-of-hand masters who had practiced so long and taken so many drugs that they were self deceived (they were nicer about it than that, but that was the implication). The documentary was itself fascinating, but I was like wow.... that's harsh. But it displays a skeptical attitude for sure.

 
I wouldn't call it a "skeptical" attitude.  I mean, it's a dismissive, crude, and mindblowingly racist attitude, but skeptical?  I'm not seeing a whole lot of evaluative doubt there; that's "I'm absolutely convinced of my nasty conclusions", not maintaining a cautious disbelief.
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Re: Learning magic tricks
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2017, 07:24:16 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;205029
I wouldn't call it a "skeptical" attitude.  I mean, it's a dismissive, crude, and mindblowingly racist attitude, but skeptical?  


They usually call themselves "skeptics". Also, "rationalists". There seems to be a lot of overlap with anti-theism, a strictly mechanistic view of the universe (even when that doesn't reflect reality), and a lack of any sense of wonder, joy, or ... intellectual humility, I guess I'd call it?

There ought to be a better term for this. Agnosticism <-> Skepticism, Antitheism <-> ? ? ?
I'd suggest 'Objectivism' but that's taken. 'Dawkinism'?
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Sorcha

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Re: Learning magic tricks
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2017, 04:30:08 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;205029
I wouldn't call it a "skeptical" attitude.  I mean, it's a dismissive, crude, and mindblowingly racist attitude, but skeptical?  I'm not seeing a whole lot of evaluative doubt there; that's "I'm absolutely convinced of my nasty conclusions", not maintaining a cautious disbelief.

 
Yeah, I agree. I was addressing the idea that stage magicians would use magic in the witchcraft/spellcasting sense and using the example to show that most stage magicians seem to be skeptical *at best* toward "real magic". The icky attitude toward traditional practitioners is a whole different topic.


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Sorcha

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Re: Learning magic tricks
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2017, 04:35:50 pm »
Quote from: sevensons;204946
Everything is not black and white there is a deeper meaning behind all magic and hypnotic magicians affect the audience. unless people can out wit them they are under a spell.

 
The comment you quoted hardly used absolutes or black and white language.

You, however, have used the word "all", which is rather black and white.

Not all magicians, by a long shot, use hypnosis and it's considered highly unethical to hypnotize somebody without their express permission, I do believe. Also, I'm pretty sure hypnosis is a technique, not a spell.



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