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Author Topic: Asatru, kemetism... i am confused  (Read 5191 times)

Logan

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Asatru, kemetism... i am confused
« on: March 27, 2017, 04:15:20 pm »
Hello! I am European, 2 years ago I thought that I am atheist. One friend told me about asatru and i was very excited. I was reading norse mytology, everything was ok. When i was kid i was very interwted in egyption gods and mythology and i sarted to read again and then i was confused. I like both religions. I dont know what to do but i want to choose one of them.

ehbowen

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Re: Asatru, kemetism... i am confused
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2017, 05:13:00 pm »
Quote from: Logan;204264
I like both religions. I dont know what to do but i want to choose one of them.

 
Why?

My own God expects commitment. If you want to get close to him, you'd best be prepared to put other relationships, both divine and human (Matthew 10:37), on the back burner until the job at hand is done.

However, from what the others on this board tell me, (most of) their gods are not anywhere near so picky. It's like going into a shopping mall--some shop owners you may become real friends with; others may turn you off entirely; still others you might not go in to until you need a fuel pump for your 1965 Mustang. I don't know of any requirement that you confine your shopping to a single mall, at least in civilian life.

My own God is much more akin to enlisting in the military. Which is a good thing; I'm proud of my Navy service. But part of being a good recruiter is recognizing when some people are not ready...at least not yet...to enlist.

The good news is that I believe the war is coming to a close. When it does, we'll all be a lot more free to sip lattes...and perhaps open our own malls!
--------Eric H. Bowen
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Re: Asatru, kemetism... i am confused
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2017, 05:23:11 pm »
Quote from: ehbowen;204266
Why?

My own God expects commitment. If you want to get close to him, you'd best be prepared to put other relationships, both divine and human (Matthew 10:37), on the back burner until the job at hand is done.

However, from what the others on this board tell me, (most of) their gods are not anywhere near so picky. It's like going into a shopping mall--some shop owners you may become real friends with; others may turn you off entirely; still others you might not go in to until you need a fuel pump for your 1965 Mustang. I don't know of any requirement that you confine your shopping to a single mall, at least in civilian life.

My own God is much more akin to enlisting in the military. Which is a good thing; I'm proud of my Navy service. But part of being a good recruiter is recognizing when some people are not ready...at least not yet...to enlist.

The good news is that I believe the war is coming to a close. When it does, we'll all be a lot more free to sip lattes...and perhaps open our own malls!

 
Fun fact! Pagans often have loyalty to one particular pantheon or pantheons rather than one particular god! Some of these pantheons or gods do in fact tell their followers that they'd want their pantheon to be put first above other pantheons if you make certain promises. Sometimes they only stay loyal to one pantheon and put up a sign that they will not work with anyone outside that pantheon.

ehbowen

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Re: Asatru, kemetism... i am confused
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2017, 06:19:26 pm »
Quote from: Tom;204267
Fun fact! Pagans often have loyalty to one particular pantheon or pantheons rather than one particular god! Some of these pantheons or gods do in fact tell their followers that they'd want their pantheon to be put first above other pantheons if you make certain promises. Sometimes they only stay loyal to one pantheon and put up a sign that they will not work with anyone outside that pantheon.

 
I can certainly see "customer loyalty." Going back to the shopping mall analogy, if you ever see someone who looks like me with a Pepsi in his hand or signing to buy a Toyota, you should immediately confront him and ask, "Who are you and what have you done with Eric?"

As to whether the pantheons of Asatru and Kemeticism expect that kind of loyalty, I plead ignorance. Perhaps some of the others can enlighten me.
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Re: Asatru, kemetism... i am confused
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2017, 06:29:39 pm »
Quote from: Logan;204264
Hello! I am European, 2 years ago I thought that I am atheist. One friend told me about asatru and i was very excited. I was reading norse mytology, everything was ok. When i was kid i was very interwted in egyption gods and mythology and i sarted to read again and then i was confused. I like both religions. I dont know what to do but i want to choose one of them.


What is it about each of these systems that appeals to you? Is it the practices, the worldview, the personalities of the gods?
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ehbowen

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Re: Asatru, kemetism... i am confused
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2017, 06:36:04 pm »
Quote from: ehbowen;204274
I can certainly see "customer loyalty."

 
Just to clarify: When I purloined Sorcha's wonderful "shopping mall" analogy, it was with the thought that a pantheon was analogous to an entire mall, the various deities as the store owners, and miscellaneous other divine personalities as the different employees.

It's not unusual for shopping malls and the like to offer "loyalty incentives" which persuade some of their customers to shop only there. Other customers, though, might spread their patronage around. In my case, the Commanding Officer has declared all off-base shopping "Out Of Bounds" for the present. But if circumstances change, that policy may as well....
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Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!
Computers are like air conditioning. They become useless when you open Windows—Linus Torvalds.

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Re: Asatru, kemetism... i am confused
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2017, 06:54:14 pm »
Quote from: Logan;204264
Hello! I am European, 2 years ago I thought that I am atheist. One friend told me about asatru and i was very excited. I was reading norse mytology, everything was ok. When i was kid i was very interwted in egyption gods and mythology and i sarted to read again and then i was confused. I like both religions. I dont know what to do but i want to choose one of them.


It is not necessary to do anything yet. Keep reading, and try to look at sources about a religion beyond the mythology - how the religion was practiced etc.

As you learn more, you may decide you only want to practice one of these traditions. If you find that both of them appeal to you, you may want to think about ways of practicing them both. Some people will practice more than one tradition but keep their rituals separate, and some people combine two or more traditions together.
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Tom

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Re: Asatru, kemetism... i am confused
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2017, 07:02:40 pm »
Quote from: Logan;204264
Hello! I am European, 2 years ago I thought that I am atheist. One friend told me about asatru and i was very excited. I was reading norse mytology, everything was ok. When i was kid i was very interwted in egyption gods and mythology and i sarted to read again and then i was confused. I like both religions. I dont know what to do but i want to choose one of them.

 
I was in a similar place at one point when I first stared to seriously look into religious practice, having both an interest in Egyptian deities and Norse deities and what I basically did was research and, if there were any classes, take them and learn more about the worldviews and values associated with those pantheons. Kemetics, for example, aim to preserve Ma'at, which loosely translates as order, and to keep isfet or chaos at bay.

Their cosmology is also very inspired by the land that their religion developed in. Same thing goes for any other polytheism that is associated with a particular culture. It would be easier, for example, to have a Heathen/Asatru calendar match up with the weather in Europe than a Kemetic one.

I really enjoy mythology from many different cultures, but that doesn't mean that I'd actually worship those gods, partly because the religion is a still living one and does not welcome outsiders or because they just don't quite click for me. It did take me taking a beginner's class as Kemetic Orthodoxy had offered to realize that Kemeticism wasn't for me because the cosmology didn't really work for me and that a world tree like Heathenry had made more sense.

SunflowerP

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Re: Asatru, kemetism... i am confused
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2017, 07:16:45 pm »
Quote from: Megatherium;204279
As you learn more, you may decide you only want to practice one of these traditions. If you find that both of them appeal to you, you may want to think about ways of practicing them both. Some people will practice more than one tradition but keep their rituals separate, and some people combine two or more traditions together.

 
Hanging this from Megatherium's post, but it's to Logan.

I agree with Mega that you don't need to make an immediate choice, but should continue reading and exploring. You can do that for as long as you want/need; it's not a race, and there's no 'you must choose a religion/pantheon and start practicing within X months' requirement.

One bit of reading I'd suggest, that looks ahead to that point but will also probably help you get a sense of what kinds of choices you have, is Darkhawk's essay On Eclecticism, Syncretism, Multiple-Path, and other Combinatorics.

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Re: Asatru, kemetism... i am confused
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2017, 01:45:06 am »
Quote from: Tom;204267
Fun fact! Pagans often have loyalty to one particular pantheon or pantheons rather than one particular god!

 
This is completely true. It is also true that some do not have any such requirement. I will admit ignorance of Kemetism. However, some belief systems are more open about syncretism. Asatru is decentralized, and different groups have different rules.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

Hariti

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Re: Asatru, kemetism... i am confused
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2017, 02:39:49 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;204281

One bit of reading I'd suggest, that looks ahead to that point but will also probably help you get a sense of what kinds of choices you have, is Darkhawk's essay On Eclecticism, Syncretism, Multiple-Path, and other Combinatorics.

 
Hmm. That article seems somewhat uniformed about Hindu beliefs. It states (in relation to Unsubstantiated Personal Gnosis): "See also that warm and snuggly goddess figure, Kali. Just airbrush out the skulls."

This sentence suggests a very poor understanding of the role Kali plays in native, ethnic, Indian religious systems. Simply put, it is wrong. Hindus view Kali as a guardian figure and protector. The skulls she wears are the skulls of evil people and demons, not of good people or her worshipers. Kali has been long associated with motherhood for as long as she has been associated with death and destruction.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

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Re: Asatru, kemetism... i am confused
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2017, 03:34:44 am »
Quote from: EnderDragonFire;204312
Hmm. That article seems somewhat uniformed about Hindu beliefs. It states (in relation to Unsubstantiated Personal Gnosis): "See also that warm and snuggly goddess figure, Kali. Just airbrush out the skulls."

This sentence suggests a very poor understanding of the role Kali plays in native, ethnic, Indian religious systems. Simply put, it is wrong. Hindus view Kali as a guardian figure and protector. The skulls she wears are the skulls of evil people and demons, not of good people or her worshipers. Kali has been long associated with motherhood for as long as she has been associated with death and destruction.

 
Right, but there's a difference between being a loving, protective mother who will rip the skulls from evildoers and wear them as a necklace, and being a warm, snuggly, cuddly-wuddly mumsy-wumsy. The former does not preclude *also* being the latter, of course, and I'm sure it would be possible to find Hindus who view her mostly as the latter, but that's within the context of, well, being Hindus, rather than being someone from Basingstoke who wants a cuddly mummy goddess who looks a bit scary but is actually just a widdle kitty-cat (which, I mean... well, kitty cats are pretty red in tooth and claw, too!) and decides that an existing, complex goddess is "really" something different than what thousands of years of Her original worshippers have seen Her as.

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Re: Asatru, kemetism... i am confused
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2017, 04:17:20 am »
Quote from: Beryl;204313
Right, but there's a difference between being a loving, protective mother who will rip the skulls from evildoers and wear them as a necklace, and being a warm, snuggly, cuddly-wuddly mumsy-wumsy. The former does not preclude *also* being the latter, of course, and I'm sure it would be possible to find Hindus who view her mostly as the latter, but that's within the context of, well, being Hindus, rather than being someone from Basingstoke who wants a cuddly mummy goddess who looks a bit scary but is actually just a widdle kitty-cat (which, I mean... well, kitty cats are pretty red in tooth and claw, too!) and decides that an existing, complex goddess is "really" something different than what thousands of years of Her original worshippers have seen Her as.

 
I look on the figures of gods as a depiction of their nature. if kali roamed the streets she would probably be quite fashionable. the chain of heads has a deeper meaning to me in that she controls thoughts to guide you.
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Re: Asatru, kemetism... i am confused
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2017, 09:25:20 am »
Quote from: EnderDragonFire;204312
This sentence suggests a very poor understanding of the role Kali plays in native, ethnic, Indian religious systems. Simply put, it is wrong. Hindus view Kali as a guardian figure and protector. The skulls she wears are the skulls of evil people and demons, not of good people or her worshipers. Kali has been long associated with motherhood for as long as she has been associated with death and destruction.

 
Actually, I suspect you're uninfored about the stupid things that pagans have said about Kali.  There have been rather a number of people who have suggested that Kali's ferocity is something that was imposed upon her by outsiders, and that she's really a peaceful figure who would never hurt a fly.

There are some who say similar things about the Morrigan; it's not just Hindu systems that get Peaceful Original Mother Goddess Cultwashed.  But there are people who think that the only possible mode of "mother" is "love light and bunnies" (and, for that matter, the only possible of "female divinity" is that kind of mother).
as the water grinds the stone
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as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

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Re: Asatru, kemetism... i am confused
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2017, 09:30:08 am »
Quote from: ehbowen;204278
It's not unusual for shopping malls and the like to offer "loyalty incentives" which persuade some of their customers to shop only there.

 
... wow, that must be regional or something.  I can't recall ever encountering it.  Individual stores, yes, with store credit cards or membership discounts or little things that get stamped when you buy a coffee or $20 in books.  Malls?  Huh.


To actually respond to the OP:  I'll note there are several people kicking around just here on the Cauldron with simultaneous Kemetic and Slavic/Baltic heathen affiliations of one type or another.  (At the very least I can think of one other than myself.)  I can't recall if we have any Norse/Germanic heathen sorts who also run around with the netjeru, though.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

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