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Author Topic: Learning Ritual Magic by John Michael Greer  (Read 5653 times)

Starlight

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Learning Ritual Magic by John Michael Greer
« on: March 27, 2017, 10:46:57 am »
I'm looking for a resource that will give me a good solid foundation (theoretical and practical/experiential) in the basics, not actual procedures for carrying out specific magical workings. I would like to learn how to prepare well first.

I've read some good reviews about Greer's "Learning Ritual Magic" on Amazon and wondered if anyone on TC had read it and had any thoughts about it which might help me decide if the book would be a good investment.

Or perhaps there are other resources I should look at as well?

Thank you.
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Starlight

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Re: Learning Ritual Magic by John Michael Greer
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2017, 11:05:37 am »
Quote from: Starlight;204252
I've read some good reviews about Greer's "Learning Ritual Magic" on Amazon and wondered if anyone on TC had read it and had any thoughts about it which might help me decide if the book would be a good investment.

I found a related thread on John Michael Greer (http://ecauldron.com/forum/showthread.php?11690-John-Michael-Greer) when I posted (which I didn't come across when I searched the forums before posting) and he leans more towards Western Ceremonial Magic. I know he has written on the Golden Dawn/Celtic Golden Dawn system.

I wonder, then, if the theory and practices in "Learning Ritual Magic" would be of use to someone who's not leaning specifically towards the Golden Dawn tradition?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 11:08:12 am by Starlight »
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Jenett

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Re: Learning Ritual Magic by John Michael Greer
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2017, 11:15:53 am »
Quote from: Starlight;204253

I wonder, then, if the theory and practices in "Learning Ritual Magic" would be of use to someone who's not leaning specifically towards the Golden Dawn tradition?

 
I haven't read the book and can't comment on it directly, but I like Greer a lot (um, as a person as well as an author: he was Paganicon's first guest of honor, and he's lovely.) He's very widely read across relevant fields, but he's also got a knack for useful, well-grounded explanations that aren't inappropriately simplified.
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Starlight

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Re: Learning Ritual Magic by John Michael Greer
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2017, 12:35:28 am »
Quote from: Jenett;204254
I haven't read the book and can't comment on it directly, but I like Greer a lot (um, as a person as well as an author: he was Paganicon's first guest of honor, and he's lovely.) He's very widely read across relevant fields, but he's also got a knack for useful, well-grounded explanations that aren't inappropriately simplified.

 
Thank you, Jenett! That has helped me make up my mind.

Even the 3-star reviews on Amazon couldn't fault the contents of the book or the research - they were more about the book not having what the reviewer was looking for than anything else.

So, I've made my purchase. :)  Looking forward to reading up on Qabalah and astrology and learning more about ritual magic, which, although I'm not sure it's something I'm drawn to, I haven't ruled out yet. The book also covers tarot, so it'll be good to see what is mentioned on that topic. It sounds like a great beginners book.

Many thanks!
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Re: Learning Ritual Magic by John Michael Greer
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2017, 02:23:54 am »
Quote from: Starlight;204303
Looking forward to reading up on Qabalah and astrology and learning more about ritual magic, which, although I'm not sure it's something I'm drawn to, I haven't ruled out yet.


You never know, right? Looking over this thread reminded me that it was in a John Michael Greer book on monsters that I first found clear instructions on how to the do the Qabalistic Cross, the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram, and the Ritual of the Rose Cross. I'm not a member of the Golden Dawn or anything, but I will say I have used those specific rituals many times over the years. So Greer is a-okay in my book!

Sobekemiti

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Re: Learning Ritual Magic by John Michael Greer
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2017, 06:51:57 am »
Quote from: Starlight;204252
I'm looking for a resource that will give me a good solid foundation (theoretical and practical/experiential) in the basics, not actual procedures for carrying out specific magical workings. I would like to learn how to prepare well first.

I've read some good reviews about Greer's "Learning Ritual Magic" on Amazon and wondered if anyone on TC had read it and had any thoughts about it which might help me decide if the book would be a good investment.

Or perhaps there are other resources I should look at as well?

Thank you.

 
Haven't read the Greer book, but I've read a couple of his other books, and he's pretty good. I imagine this one will be worth your time.

As for other resources, it depends on the sort of magical practices you're looking for, and what you want to learn how to do. Not all magical systems are the same. Is there anything specific you're looking for, like witchcraft, ceremonial magic, druidry, folk magic, etc? That would at least help me narrow down what I might want to rec you.
Sobekemiti | Hekatean Witch, Kemetic Orthodox Shemsu, Sobek Devotee | My pronouns are they/she

Starlight

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Re: Learning Ritual Magic by John Michael Greer
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2017, 07:40:57 am »
Quote from: Emma Eldritch;204310
You never know, right?


Absolutely! I'm keeping an open mind. :)

Quote from: Emma Eldritch;204310
Looking over this thread reminded me that it was in a John Michael Greer book on monsters that I first found clear instructions on how to the do the Qabalistic Cross, the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram, and the Ritual of the Rose Cross. I'm not a member of the Golden Dawn or anything, but I will say I have used those specific rituals many times over the years.


I have seen a ritual performed that used Hebrew words (I think it was marking ritual space) and it was very powerful. I'm still new to a Celtic pagan path (with a bit of early Celtic Christianity in there somewhere) and so I'm not sure how the Golden Dawn would fit in (although there is a Celtic Golden Dawn tradition too). But I am interested in reading about it.

Quote from: Emma Eldritch;204310
So Greer is a-okay in my book!

That's good to hear. Thanks, Emma Eldritch, for sharing your experiences with me. I appreciate that.
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Starlight

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Re: Learning Ritual Magic by John Michael Greer
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2017, 07:58:11 am »
Quote from: Sobekemiti;204319
As for other resources, it depends on the sort of magical practices you're looking for, and what you want to learn how to do. Not all magical systems are the same. Is there anything specific you're looking for, like witchcraft, ceremonial magic, druidry, folk magic, etc? That would at least help me narrow down what I might want to rec you.


I think at this stage hedgewitchery or perhaps folk magic is more where I'm at. Druidry, too, to a certain extent, although I'm not sure how Druid magic differs from all the other magic systems. (I think each Druid organisation might have their own way of doing things?)

I have watched some of Kelly-Ann Maddox's videos on Chaos Magic as well, and the sigils part of it was also of interest. Tarot, for self-development and insight. Meditation/Guided Visualisation/Active Imagination - I'm following Lora O'Brien and she's put Jungian Psychology into an Irish mythological and cultural context and creates some fabulous meditations for inner journeys.

So I'm not sure if I have a defined magical path. There are various different things that interest me, but I'm not sure if they all fall under one umbrella. Which is why I thought Greer's book might help me understand what sort of framework I would need as a foundation for a magic practice.

And thank you for the offer of recommended reading. That's very good of you. Much appreciated. :)
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Sobekemiti

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Re: Learning Ritual Magic by John Michael Greer
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2017, 09:44:10 am »
Quote from: Starlight;204321
I think at this stage hedgewitchery or perhaps folk magic is more where I'm at. Druidry, too, to a certain extent, although I'm not sure how Druid magic differs from all the other magic systems. (I think each Druid organisation might have their own way of doing things?)

I have watched some of Kelly-Ann Maddox's videos on Chaos Magic as well, and the sigils part of it was also of interest. Tarot, for self-development and insight. Meditation/Guided Visualisation/Active Imagination - I'm following Lora O'Brien and she's put Jungian Psychology into an Irish mythological and cultural context and creates some fabulous meditations for inner journeys.

So I'm not sure if I have a defined magical path. There are various different things that interest me, but I'm not sure if they all fall under one umbrella. Which is why I thought Greer's book might help me understand what sort of framework I would need as a foundation for a magic practice.

And thank you for the offer of recommended reading. That's very good of you. Much appreciated. :)

 
Yeah, each Druid order does things their own way, so a lot of how Druids do magic will depend on which one you learn from. You might want to look at the Ancient Order of Druids in America and their Gnostic Celtic Church if you're interested in a Celtic Christianity flavoured Druidism. Greer's liturgy book on the Gnostic Celtic Church should give you enough insight into their ritual structures to decide if it's your thing or not. I mostly read it as an example of Pagan monasticism, and it is definitely not my style of Druidry, but you might find it interesting nonetheless.

You might also want to check out The Path of Druidry (iirc) by Penny Billington, though she does use Welsh myth, rather than Irish, to illustrate her druidry lessons. She's OBOD-trained. That might give you some food for thought, at any rate.

As for book recs, this is by no means a definitive list, and others may have better recommendations than these, but I'll give you the books I've found most helpful.

Folk Magic:
- The Book of English Magic - I may need to buy this now that I'm recc'ing it to you, but you could do a lot worse than give this a read.
- Judika Illes' Encyclopaedia of 5000 spells - use this as a reference! It does have a vaguely Wiccish-style 'how to magic' at the front, but feel free to ignore that. There are recipes and spells for absolutely everything in here, gathered from all over the world. I can't think of a more comprehensive folk magic reference than this. Warning: It is a BIG BOOK. You can stop a door with it. :D

Hedgewitchery:
1) For the hearth/home/kitchen/domestic style:
- The Way of the Hedge Witch by Arin Murphy-Hiscock - I like her style, and the way she talks about household magic.  
- Mrs B's Guide to Household Witchery by Kris Bradley - I picked this up for, like, $12 at a discount bookstore on a whim and I was not disappointed.
- Deborah Blake's books - simple 'use what you have' Wiccish-flavoured but highly adaptable witchcraft. I got a lot out of 'Everyday Witchcraft'. She probably doesn't quite belong in this section, but I think she goes well with the other two books here.

You will probably come across Hedgewitch by Rae Beth at some point, but I hated that book so much. It was too Wiccish, and her worldview too incompatible with mine, to make it useful to me. Don't let this stop you reading it, though, if only to decide for yourself whether it's worth your time.

2) For the shamanic/spiritwork/hedge-riding/walking between worlds style:
- Trance-Portation by Diane Paxton - I am only a chapter in, but this will teach you how to do trance.
- Talking to the Spirits and Drawing Down the Spirits by Kenaz Filan and Raven Kaldera - the first is about UPG and talking to gods and spirits, etc, while the second is about spirit possession. I'm not into spirit possession, so I didn't get a lot out of the second, but Talking to the Spirits might help you hone your discernment, and your capacity to hear the gods and spirits.

This isn't really my area of expertise, though, nor is it my style of witchcraft, so I'm hoping others might come along with better recommendations for this sort of hedgewitchery than what I have here.

I wish I could rec you a useful sigil book, but the only one I have (and haven't got very far into) is T. Thorn Coyle's Sigil Magic for Writers and Creative People (or something like that) so ymmv on that front, too. I think this indicates that I am Not A Sigil Person, so. I do get a lot more use out of bindrunes and Anglo-Saxon rune magic, though, so. That seems to be more my thing.

Anyway, that should keep you busy for a while, and I'm hoping others might add in any other recs they might have, since I am not an expert on all of these types of magic. Hopefully, you'll find something to narrow in on, and at the very least, try everything at least three times, just to be sure whether it's worth pursuing.
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Starlight

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Re: Learning Ritual Magic by John Michael Greer
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2017, 10:13:18 am »
Quote from: Sobekemiti;204330
Anyway, that should keep you busy for a while, and I'm hoping others might add in any other recs they might have, since I am not an expert on all of these types of magic. Hopefully, you'll find something to narrow in on, and at the very least, try everything at least three times, just to be sure whether it's worth pursuing.

Sobekemiti - thank you! Thank you for that list of books. I've seen a few titles in there that I haven't seen elsewhere. :)

Between these and "Learning Ritual Magic", I should have a much clearer idea of what tradition is a good "fit" and how to go about the practice responsibly.

Thank you so much!
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 10:14:26 am by Starlight »
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Re: Learning Ritual Magic by John Michael Greer
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2017, 01:00:17 pm »
Quote from: Starlight;204252
.
I've read some good reviews about Greer's "Learning Ritual Magic" on Amazon and wondered if anyone on TC had read it and had any thoughts about it which might help me decide if the book would be a good investment.

 
I read it 2 or 3 years ago.  Some details are fuzzy, but overall I remember it being an excellent read ... as is most things by JMG.  My problem with it was that I am not particularly into the Kabbalah style ceremonial magick described in the book -- but if you are, you'll find it an excellent resource.  

There is also this essay by JMG.  http://www.necronomi.com/projects/manifesto/    (Without an editor, JMG is extremely wordy.   However, if you persevere, he offers some great advice).

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Re: Learning Ritual Magic by John Michael Greer
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2017, 11:00:53 pm »
Quote from: hraefngar;204339
There is also this essay by JMG.  http://www.necronomi.com/projects/manifesto/    (Without an editor, JMG is extremely wordy.   However, if you persevere, he offers some great advice).

 
Thank you for that link. It looks like a talk he gave at Pantheacon  in 2012 - I'm looking forward to reading it. It will probably give me an overview of what will be covered in his book. :)
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Re: Learning Ritual Magic by John Michael Greer
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2017, 07:30:53 am »
Quote from: Starlight;204332
Sobekemiti - thank you! Thank you for that list of books. I've seen a few titles in there that I haven't seen elsewhere. :)

Between these and "Learning Ritual Magic", I should have a much clearer idea of what tradition is a good "fit" and how to go about the practice responsibly.

Thank you so much!

 
Okay, I might have a sigil book for you. I started reading 'The Tao of Craft' by Benebell Wenn, and even though it's about Taoist Fu sigils/amulets, she takes a theoretical approach that I have spent the afternoon thinking about in terms of adapting it to Egyptian hieroglyphs or runes, rather than Chinese characters, and she encourages this adaptation. You may also find that theoretical approach interesting and inspirational, too.
Sobekemiti | Hekatean Witch, Kemetic Orthodox Shemsu, Sobek Devotee | My pronouns are they/she

Starlight

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Re: Learning Ritual Magic by John Michael Greer
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2017, 11:28:14 am »
Quote from: Sobekemiti;204379
Okay, I might have a sigil book for you. I started reading 'The Tao of Craft' by Benebell Wenn, and even though it's about Taoist Fu sigils/amulets, she takes a theoretical approach that I have spent the afternoon thinking about in terms of adapting it to Egyptian hieroglyphs or runes, rather than Chinese characters, and she encourages this adaptation. You may also find that theoretical approach interesting and inspirational, too.

 
I'm adding it to my reading list. :) (I found some excerpts of the book here (https://benebellwen.com/the-tao-of-craft/read-excerpts/) in case anyone else is interested.)

It looks quite intricate with different components. Did you find it easy to understand?
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Re: Learning Ritual Magic by John Michael Greer
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2017, 11:54:29 am »
Quote from: Starlight;204386
I'm adding it to my reading list. :) (I found some excerpts of the book here (https://benebellwen.com/the-tao-of-craft/read-excerpts/) in case anyone else is interested.)

It looks quite intricate with different components. Did you find it easy to understand?

 
I'm only vaguely familiar with Taoism, and with Chinese characters, but I understand it well enough. She explains things clearly, and she's also very clear on what's outside the scope of the book, too. It never tries to do anything other than what it sets out to do. She isn't dogmatic, either; she presents the diversity of practice very well.

It is intricate, and there is a lot going on, but it never feels overwhelming. Each part leads very well into the next, she builds them up in a logical manner that means you don't get lost. At least, I didn't get lost. Mostly, I just want to keep reading.

Even if the way Fu sigils are made isn't your thing, it's still a fascinating insight into one aspect of Taoist craft that I didn't know anything about. She also makes interesting youtube videos, fyi, and her book of methods is amazing. Which is what brought her to my attention in the first place, binge-watching Book of Shadows videos.
Sobekemiti | Hekatean Witch, Kemetic Orthodox Shemsu, Sobek Devotee | My pronouns are they/she

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