Author Topic: Working with Trickster Energy - Ideas? (Read 7936 times)

Sefiru · « **Reply #15 on:** March 30, 2017, 06:26:10 pm »

Quote from: Something;204433

Many times I have read beginners who are set on working with tricksters mostly loki because they think he's just a happy go lucky playful type that just likes to make harmless jokes and so on, I am sure this does not apply to too many but just make sure you know that it doesn't end there,

But hopefully people won't go to the extent of causing physical harm to others, remember the story of baldur.... same rules apply to us unfortunately.. either way I wish you luck

Strong enough to help is strong enough to hurt. Applies just as much to deities as to herbs.

In any case I don't work with Loki but with Set, whose major trait (relevant to this discussion) is breaking what needs to be broken. The possibility of mayhem does not disturb me; it's more of a selling point IMO.

Jack · « **Reply #16 on:** March 30, 2017, 07:10:48 pm »

Quote from: Sefiru;204446

Strong enough to help is strong enough to hurt. Applies just as much to deities as to herbs.

In any case I don't work with Loki but with Set, whose major trait (relevant to this discussion) is breaking what needs to be broken. The possibility of mayhem does not disturb me; it's more of a selling point IMO.

It's not a bug, it's a feature?

(Loki as hacker, Odin as the sysadmin trying to keep him out but appreciating that he keeps the system a little more secure?)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

AsraiDouglas · « **Reply #17 on:** March 30, 2017, 07:35:21 pm »

Quote from: Jack;204451

It's not a bug, it's a feature?

(Loki as hacker, Odin as the sysadmin trying to keep him out but appreciating that he keeps the system a little more secure?)

I'm not sure that a more perfect contemporary analogy has ever been written.

Darkhawk · « **Reply #18 on:** March 31, 2017, 10:05:35 am »

Quote from: Tom;204442

Not like Odin's any safer tbh. No god is "safe".

Just hanging this here -

Worth keeping in mind that the OP is explicitly not talking about dealing with gods. (Not, of course, that those of us with divine trickster experience don't have thoughts to offer, but.)

I would argue that entities with trickster aspects (Odin definitely included) are less "safe" than most, mind. Given the nature of the trickster to subvert, upend, challenge, exploit, or counterpoint the status quo, there's intrinsically that aspect of "the stable and normal cannot be depended on here".

I have found, as I think about it, though, that just because tricksters do not give two shakes about the status quo (not all of them are out to subvert it; some just consider it irrelevant) doesn't mean that they don't have patterns or even a code of their own. They're just different. Sometimes a bit orange and blue morality, but there are rules in Fairy (and some interpretations of the Courts, in those folklores where they exist, are about how the fairies deal with rules), and you can count on Set to poke things to show up their weaknesses and Coyote to do world-creating pratfalls. Etc.

Everything has a nature, in other words, and just because that nature is not in alignment with easy status quoing does not say anything else about what that nature is.

Something · « **Reply #19 on:** March 31, 2017, 05:49:09 pm »

Quote from: Tom;204442

Not like Odin's any safer tbh. No god is "safe". And Loki actually doesn't hurt people for no reason whatsoever. Even in the Baldr story, he was showing that stuff happens regardless of how many protections have been put into place to protect oneself. Sometimes parents suffer through the death of their children and honestly, there's more than one version of Baldur's death and Loki isn't responsible in every version.

(So many people forget about Odin's trickster aspect.)

It is true that Loki doesn't hurt people for No reason, it's just some of us draw the line at hurting others for our own amusement, which he has and does do, because I have witnessed it myself even if you choose not to believe the stories about him, I have also seen him do good. But regardless of what way you read the baldur story most stories involving him are almost always causing problems, the times he helped was usually because he caused the initial problems in the first place, what dark hawk also said is very true all deities have the ability to both help or harm just like us, its just some have more chance of causing problems than others which most tricksters are known for not just loki, saying that there's no difference they all have the same risk is incorrect...If that was the case then it wouldn't make any difference who you interact with... That's like saying there's as much risk of having a pet lion as a pet cat... I would also never take anything as written as 100% accurate either, best to use them as guidance and find the real answers personally, as I have learned things that are not even in eddas, anyway if you are set on working with tricksters I wish you well and good luck..

Tom · « **Reply #20 on:** March 31, 2017, 06:19:32 pm »

Quote from: Something;204480

It is true that Loki doesn't hurt people for No reason, it's just some of us draw the line at hurting others for our own amusement, which he has and does do, because I have witnessed it myself even if you choose not to believe the stories about him, I have also seen him do good. But regardless of what way you read the baldur story most stories involving him are almost always causing problems, the times he helped was usually because he caused the initial problems in the first place, what dark hawk also said is very true all deities have the ability to both help or harm just like us, its just some have more chance of causing problems than others which most tricksters are known for not just loki, saying that there's no difference they all have the same risk is incorrect...If that was the case then it wouldn't make any difference who you interact with... That's like saying there's as much risk of having a pet lion as a pet cat... I would also never take anything as written as 100% accurate either, best to use them as guidance and find the real answers personally, as I have learned things that are not even in eddas, anyway if you are set on working with tricksters I wish you well and good luck..

Or you could be just incompatible with Loki? That's a perfectly acceptable thing you know. A lot of people are incompatible when it comes to working with certain deities or energies and there are people who don't really get along with tricksters or tricksters of a certain kind. And honestly, I don't think the difference is really that of level of risk but rather kind of risk.

So it's more like a wild lion verses a wild cheetah.

Something · « **Reply #21 on:** April 01, 2017, 10:13:57 am »

Quote from: Tom;204484

Or you could be just incompatible with Loki? That's a perfectly acceptable thing you know. A lot of people are incompatible when it comes to working with certain deities or energies and there are people who don't really get along with tricksters or tricksters of a certain kind. And honestly, I don't think the difference is really that of level of risk but rather kind of risk.

So it's more like a wild lion verses a wild cheetah.

I will certainly admit to not being compatible with loki, but if I could also ask anyone else if you have worked with other tricksters apart from loki because as much trouble he caused the jokes and partying I did enjoy, are there any tricksters that are fun but have less tendency to go as far as causing harm as this was the point I had to try and leave him behind.. loki is the only trickster I have come across.. Many thanks

Tom · « **Reply #22 on:** April 01, 2017, 02:42:27 pm »

Quote from: Something;204509

I will certainly admit to not being compatible with loki, but if I could also ask anyone else if you have worked with other tricksters apart from loki because as much trouble he caused the jokes and partying I did enjoy, are there any tricksters that are fun but have less tendency to go as far as causing harm as this was the point I had to try and leave him behind.. loki is the only trickster I have come across.. Many thanks

...May I ask you why your main desire is to find a trickster deity who is "fun"? I don't really see that as a character trait that I would personally look for when I'm looking to work with a deity. All deities I know with trickster type qualities tend to be very good at revealing things you would rather not deal with and I include my primary deity Veles in that.

Zin Aeon · « **Reply #23 on:** April 01, 2017, 03:51:42 pm »

Quote from: Tom;204519

...May I ask you why your main desire is to find a trickster deity who is "fun"? I don't really see that as a character trait that I would personally look for when I'm looking to work with a deity. All deities I know with trickster type qualities tend to be very good at revealing things you would rather not deal with and I include my primary deity Veles in that.

I am honestly and truly loving every minute of this discussion.

It's an interesting take on an old debate about trickster gods and is rather fascinating.

I am curious, though, because this always sparked another debate: if we are against "harm" being done by a trickster, how do we define "harm?" What if, in order for progress to be made, harm becomes necessary?

What was done to me may very well have been "harm" but was needed and, in the end, beneficial. (I function much better with swift kicks in the rear than with gentle persuasion.) I've never really wrapped my mind around the "harm none" concept, so it is a bit harder for me to understand.

Darkhawk · « **Reply #24 on:** April 01, 2017, 08:44:35 pm »

Quote from: Zin Aeon;204523

I've never really wrapped my mind around the "harm none" concept, so it is a bit harder for me to understand.

Don't worry, that's probably because the "harm none" concept is unrelentingly and unredeemably stupid.

Tom · « **Reply #25 on:** April 01, 2017, 10:38:34 pm »

Quote from: Zin Aeon;204523

I am honestly and truly loving every minute of this discussion.

It's an interesting take on an old debate about trickster gods and is rather fascinating.

I am curious, though, because this always sparked another debate: if we are against "harm" being done by a trickster, how do we define "harm?" What if, in order for progress to be made, harm becomes necessary?

What was done to me may very well have been "harm" but was needed and, in the end, beneficial. (I function much better with swift kicks in the rear than with gentle persuasion.) I've never really wrapped my mind around the "harm none" concept, so it is a bit harder for me to understand.

I'm much the same way re: swift kicks in the behind myself. And I've found that anything involving tricksters involves the use of loopholes or cleverly using your blind spots in such a way that you become more aware of them. They also are very good at going "okay, you can do this, but you have to deal with the consequences" and I'm the kind of person who has to apparently mess up epically sometimes if I'm to learn anything.

For me, working with a trickster type deity is more about the process of engaging with and being challenged in the way I think. It's about that reminder that there's always more to learn and things one can always do better and that no one is perfect.

Jack · « **Reply #26 on:** April 02, 2017, 04:17:43 am »

Quote from: Zin Aeon;204523

I am curious, though, because this always sparked another debate: if we are against "harm" being done by a trickster, how do we define "harm?" What if, in order for progress to be made, harm becomes necessary?

Here's my personal best illustration of that: I was diagnosed with breast cancer. That's pretty damn harmy. Except... it meant I was able to get top surgery much sooner and more easily than I would have going through the insurance system for gender dysphoria alone.

That doesn't mean I'm glad I had cancer, and yet... it's complicated.

Something · « **Reply #27 on:** April 04, 2017, 01:03:17 pm »

Quote from: Darkhawk;204537

Don't worry, that's probably because the "harm none" concept is unrelentingly and unredeemably stupid.

I will certainly agree with you on that darkhawk, I see life as trying to master the correct actions for each situation in order to become a completely balanced person, there are going to be times where someone is crying and needs a hug, but there will also be times where you come across some a@! ho@! in a bar that deserves to be floored... its all about the reasons for me not the actions, hurting someone for a laugh to me is the wrong reason to hurt someone but that's just my opinion.. I was just curious if anyone has dealt with any other trickster type entities and if so how did they compare to loki. I wasn't even aware of any others because I only follow the norse..

Darkhawk · « **Reply #28 on:** April 04, 2017, 02:03:13 pm »

Quote from: Something;204613

I was just curious if anyone has dealt with any other trickster type entities and if so how did they compare to loki.

You might have noticed that the thread started with discussion of trickster entities who are not gods at all, and a few people have mentioned divine or sometimes-considered-divine tricksters since then.

If you want a thread specifically comparing Loki to other tricksters, perhaps you could start one?

Emma Eldritch · « **Reply #29 on:** April 09, 2017, 11:07:12 pm »

Quote from: Something;204509

I will certainly admit to not being compatible with loki, but if I could also ask anyone else if you have worked with other tricksters apart from loki because as much trouble he caused the jokes and partying I did enjoy, are there any tricksters that are fun but have less tendency to go as far as causing harm as this was the point I had to try and leave him behind.. loki is the only trickster I have come across.. Many thanks

Yeah, uh, if you only want laughter and partying? Go find a spirit or deity of awesome keggers. Tricksters will fuck you up, dude. It's their job.

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