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  1. #11
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    Re: Asatru V.S. Social Marxism

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokingbeavis View Post
    Most of you don't see it that way. This is the funny thing about leftist ideology.

    Your rant about perceived leftism is beside the point. The AFA and like-minded groups are misusing an ancient religion for modern sociopolitical agendas. Germanic polytheism was about gifting the gods. Ancient Germanic tribes did not have the modern conceptions of ethnicity - or, gods help us, race - that the AFA is extolling.

    My religion is about gifting the gods. Some people's so-called religion is apparently about white, straight people. If the latter groups wants to get together and pat themselves on the back for their ethnicity and heterosexuality, they may certainly do so behind closed doors. But they are increasingly isolated from the rest of paganism, as well they should be.

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    Re: Asatru V.S. Social Marxism

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokingbeavis View Post
    The greatest irony of it all is the subsequent homogenization that is coming down the road and the destruction of individuality that comes with that.
    Don't know if you have any comparatively recent European immigrants in your background, but I do. And they went through hell, basically, back in the first half of the twentieth century, because they weren't "white" - they still had a cultural heritage, they still had traditions that differentiated themselves from the Leave It To Beaver world. They had funny names. They ate different foods than everyone else. They didn't speak English, or maybe not very well.

    So they had to become "white". Which wasn't about skin color - or rather skin color was a necessary but not sufficient qualification - it was about erasing where they came from, their ancestral traditions, their heritage, so that they could be just like everyone else.

    I don't blame my grandmother for that self-erasure. She did what she had to do to survive.

    But I will never get that heritage back. No matter how much I study, how hard I try to learn where she came from, the traditions that she might have known, I will never have that, because she had to become "regular white people" to survive. She did not pass on her language, her food, her traditional songs, her folk beliefs, any of that. Doing so would have made her less white - less like everyone else. She changed her name.

    Anything that is billed as being about "white people" will remind me of that: the fact that whiteness is intrinsically anti-cultural, anti-heritage, erasing of where my people came from. It's the booby prize for people who traded their birthright for "hey, you have pale skin, go you". I would rather have my heritage than the scars where it was excised, myself, and I am not capable of deluding myself into pretending that that did not happen. There is no Grand Whiteness Tradition, and if there were, it certainly wouldn't be bound into one regionally specific strand that is not even a quarter of this person-of-mostly-traceable-northern-European-heritage's known bloodlines.

    (Which doesn't even touch on the fact that if such Grand Whiteness Tradition existed and were defined by Asatru, my black cousins have more German/Scandanavian heritage than I do and thus better bloodline qualifications.)

    If it is important to people to celebrate their whiteness, I am mostly sad that they don't have anything valuable to appreciate about themselves. That's got to be hard on a person.
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  3. #13
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    Re: Asatru V.S. Social Marxism

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokingbeavis View Post
    I've been around the internet for some time and seldom do I feel the need to actually be one of the people that writes anything on it; I don't find pleasure in riling up the teenage keyboard warriors and doped up college students haphazardly exploring existentialist theories reading Nitze, among other things. With that said, I'm just going to go ahead and dowse the naive, un-sensible bandwagon of social justice with gasoline and watch it burn. Why? Because, I don't quite understand why so many of you don't see the purpose of organizations like the AFA and why it is important that they remain all inclusive to, yes, white people.

    Asatru is to people of white, European heritage what Wellesley College is to a woman. One seeks to preserve, admire and spiritually bond with an ancestral spiritual lineage. The other seeks to capitalize on, and promote individually successful and intelligent woman for the world. Both are inclusive, and if people who don't fit their mold or are so unrelated would be included within them, they would lose all meaning and purpose. This is obvious. But.....

    Most of you don't see it that way. This is the funny thing about leftist ideology. Your so hooked on these things like "gender queer" and "pansexual" and of course, white privilege, that you have found your selves so drowned in the waters of self pity and victimization that you can't see that your own ideology is equally as elitist as the people's that you ruthlessly attack and condemn. And for what? Not worshiping grown men who dress like women? For not worshiping black men who get hurt when getting arrested for blatantly breaking the law? For not accommodating people who fail to integrate into society because they were raised poorly, so you build them a safe space to protect them from the big bad world?

    Grow the hell up. The world is tough, and people have to stick together and find who they can to help get them through it, WITH DIGNITY AND HONOR ATTACHED. All I see here are weak people who are poor losers in the rat race that is life. You created all of this racial and sexist tension as a weapon to criminalize the strong people of this world because you can't cope with it. Your only way to get to the top is to desecrate the image of the strong and well disciplined people by associating their best qualities with negativity to drag them down below you.

    It's not right to be racist but its not right to abandon your heritage and the legacy that comes with it that you all have a duty to preserve( be it one of European or African heritage). Its not right to tell a man that he can't have his genitals cut off so he can wear high heels but it isn't right to normalize it either just because he can't cope with actually just being a regular gay guy(which there is nothing wrong being gay). Its not right to mistreat people but its definitely not right to coddle the weak and emotionally feeble when what they need is for you to help them get tougher so they can face the world with some semblance of honor.

    Asatru organizations like the AFA are not all forums for the big bad white man and his bigoted children, its just for regular white folks. You have taken such easily twisted things and made what was not too long ago said into what you wanted it to be, to match your agenda and the agenda of your handlers in your coffee shops and universities so that you have something to rant about; so you could suck from the souls of others to fill the bottomless pit of your own insatiable hunger for self gratification and self righteousness. The greatest irony of it all is the subsequent homogenization that is coming down the road and the destruction of individuality that comes with that. I hope you all lay awake at night in sadness when you think about what it is you're actually about but sadly I know none of you lose a moment of sleep.

    That's all.
    As probably the most conservative (in a sense) member of TC, seeing the usage of the term 'social Marxism' was more or less a homing beacon for me. Before I get to my main point, please allow me to establish my "credentials" with a comprehensive political CV:

    -- firm believer in the objective superiority of white, Western civilisation (although other, non-White cultures have themselves produced great civilisations)

    -- supporter of colonialism

    -- voted for Trump

    -- former moderator at Ironmarch.org; a website which has variously been referred to as 'the Nazi Facebook' and 'an international network that promotes race war'

    -- former member and/or associate of not one, not two, not three, but FOUR hate groups as defined by the SPLC (I leave it to your imagination as to which ones they are, however)

    -- formerly deeply involved in Southern nationalism and related strains of white separatism

    -- has been, at various times, personally acquainted with some of the now-leaders of the European far-right; including in the UK, the Netherlands, and Russia

    -- has been variously involved in both Christian Identity and Esoteric Hitlerism (the latter, pioneered by Satrivi Devi, being the quite-literal worship of Hitler) and therefore is no stranger to the white identity movement in religion

    I could go on but I think you get the gist: unlike my good friends here on TC, I am not a liberal. I wish to make that clear because I know from personal experience how easy it is to brush off attacks from liberals. It's not their fault they're so hopelessly deluded -- just yesterday, I cringed at a fellow who argued with endearing earnestness and na´vetÚ that mass non-White immigration is a good thing -- and especially not in this decadent and swiftly-degenerating excuse for a 'culture'.

    I don't want you to go "pshh, he's a liberal so what does he know? Probably wants some black welfare queen taking my hard-earned cash while she sleeps around. Damn niggers."

    (What's that? You'd never call black people niggers, not even in your own private thoughts? Pull the other one pal, it's got bells on. You and I both know what "not worshiping black men who get hurt when getting arrested for blatantly breaking the law" means. It means you thought Trayvon Martin was a violent thug and that the retardedly-named Philando Castile {Philando! Honestly! Right up there with Sharkeeshafae, amirite?} deserved to get shot. But I digress.)

    I'm not a liberal. I do know what I'm talking about. But again, I digress. To get to my point:

    Religion is not ethnically exclusionary unless it is specifically designed to be. Christian Identity and Positive Christianity, Esoteric Hitlerism, Creativity, certain strains of Odin-worship, Nation of Islam and other Black Muslim variants. These are all religions which fundamentally assume objective racial superiority; and therefore are intrinsically closed to people of the posited inferior races. This is because of the inherently-exclusionary nature of their theologies -- their reasons-to-be. But outside of that extremely narrow and entirely novel category of faiths, racial exclusion is universally foreign (no, not in the bad way; your demographic stability is safe for now) to the human religious experience.

    I am not an Asatruar, so I cannot claim intimate familiarity with Norse culture, but it just so happens that I *am* historically-literate; so I know that if you could go back in time and tell the original Heathens that foreigners couldn't worship their gods, they would think you were stark raving mad.

    Ancient European polytheism as a general rule tended -- broadly speaking, not trying to invite a crucifixion for having generalised -- to operate along the same basic lines. The fundamental conception of deities and how they worked would more-or-less be the same in Rome as it was in Memphis or Uppsala. There were gods. They were all different, usually distant, and could kick your ass. There were ancestors and spirits. They were all different as well, but were more immediately present as well as less powerful to a varying degree. And -- and this is important, so pay attention now -- anyone could worship them. Temples to Roman deities were spread across the European continent. Egyptian deities like Isis/Aset had throngs of devotees from Italy to Britain. Hell, Roman armies would literally bribe foreign gods to support them by promising them temples and sacrifices. And why? For the same reason that saying only whites can practice Asatru (or that only blacks can practice Vodou, or that only Asians can practice Vajrayana Buddhism, or... well you get the point) is still as mind-obliteratingly stupid as it was a few thousand years ago:

    Deity and objective theological reality, are universally existing and applicable regardless of race or ancestry.

    Thor is still Thor when the person praying to him is Nahuatl. Jupiter is still Jupiter when the person praying to him is Thai. Baron Samedi is still Baron Samedi when the person praying to him is Flemish. This goes for every other religion on Earth. Jesus is everybody's Lord and Saviour, even if they don't believe in him. G-d is still taking calls even if you're a Gentile. Allah is the Most Merciful even if you're a white kid who converted two days ago.

    Religion is about what is subjectively true. What is true for Group X is going to be true for Group Y or else it wasn't true to start with. The sky is always blue. The Eddas will always have been written by a Christian. Surprisingly enough, the Bible encapsulated this concept perfectly in Hebrews 13:8 when Paul said "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and forever." Truth never changes. So unless your theology's truth is fundamentally built on racial exclusion you cannot stake a reasonable claim on being able to exclude others. Now you seem to claim that, yes, your Asatru theology is fundamentally built upon racial exclusion (and, presumably, superiority) and that's fine. But if you want to pretend that's how the ancients did it, you're gonna have to work a helluva lot harder.

    Moving onto my next point...

    cute response from the it person. Or do you not consider yourself a person? I will call you Thing 1. That better suits you. Before you get too riled up don't forget to take you daily perks, aderol zanex and gender neutral hormone therapy pills. I would hate for you to come off as imbalanced.

    *Adderall
    *Xanax (yaaaaaay palindromes!)
    *gender neutral hormone therapy is utterly self-defeating.

    But also... ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? You, who mentioned honour twice in the spittle-flecked invective clownfuckery that passed for your opening post and refers to himself as a 'grown man', thought that mocking the presumed need to take medication (do True White Heathens {TM} not suffer from ADHD and chronic depression?) and calling someone an 'it person' and a 'thing' was honourable? Or reflective of a grown man? I don't know what the gibbering hobgoblins that pretend to be the Ăsir/Vanir within your diseased cult consider honourable behaviour but if that's it then they can fuck right off. Also, Mr Grown Man, do you know the last time I called someone an 'it' was? WHEN I WAS THIRTEEN.

    T H I R T E E N .

    Which means that at 14 I was more mature than you are now.

    YOU SLAVERING SHITGIBBON.

    You may have noticed that I have begun to lose my temper. That's because as I've been writing this post I've had time to reflect deeply on your treatment of Redfaery. Redfaery is not particularly one of my friends on this forum -- indeed, I'm fairly sure that 97-8% of the times we've interacted directly have been to disagree with each other -- but they're a smart and intelligent person. Unlike you, their contributions are almost always thoughtful and nuanced and they are at this point a longstanding member of their community. And because they mildly snarked at you, you proceeded to immediately belittle and dehumanise them in the most intensely nauseating fashion.

    I'm sorry, and it's the liberals who have 'drowned in the waters of self-pity and victimisation'? It's the liberals who need to 'grow the hell up'? It's the liberals who are 'weak and emotionally feeble'? Are you even vaguely aware of the staggering weight of your hypocrisy? Of the puerile immaturity which oozes, like rancid pus, from every line of the infected wounds that are your posts? It's like watching a dying SS officer shit himself before blaming the Jews for the smell; except for the fact you actually had to be capable to become an SS officer.

    Ultimately, what I guess I'm trying to say is, go fuck yourself with a rusty spoon you malodorous asswipe. There's plenty of room for dissenting voices here at The Cauldron and we sure as hell don't always agree with each other. But as far as I'm concerned, TC is family, and it damn sure isn't honourable or dignified to let someone shit on a family member like you just did.

    So, from one bitter old white man to another:


    ~Castus
    Last edited by Castus; 18 Mar 2017 at 10:21 PM. Reason: Fixit~
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  4. #14
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    Re: Asatru V.S. Social Marxism

    Quote Originally Posted by Castus View Post
    YOU SLAVERING SHITGIBBON.
    *** MOD HAT ON ***
    Castus, I know you feel provoked, but you know fully well that personal attacks are against the rules, which you may want to go remind yourself about.

    I'm putting a strike on your record. I'm sure you were expecting that and thought it was worth taking your lumps for.
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    Re: Asatru V.S. Social Marxism

    Quote Originally Posted by Castus View Post

    ~Castus




    Fuck me.
    Far as I'm concerned, 'accoutrement' is pronounced 'a cooter mint.'

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    Re: Asatru V.S. Social Marxism

    Quote Originally Posted by MadZealot View Post
    ...
    Yeah, I'm about the only other person here who can claim the 'conservative' moniker (although, a bit less to the right than dear Castus) but I can say I was many forms of facepalming while reading the OP. Yes, ethnic groups have a right to worship solely amongst themselves. Yes, the SJ dialogue can get rather strident and shrill (not the ideas so much as the manner of presentation) but seriously, the tone of it here has been quite cool for a good while.

    As to the rest, I don't always even, but when I do, I literally just can't.

    But, I've got to thank OP for saving me some time. I was gonna surf over to Stormfront so my white half could have a wank. Thanks to you, I was able to save electrons and fappit here. So there's that.

    Oh, and apparently I have to spread rep around before giving more to Castus. Bummer.
    Far as I'm concerned, 'accoutrement' is pronounced 'a cooter mint.'

  7. #17
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    Re: Asatru V.S. Social Marxism

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokingbeavis View Post
    I've been around the internet for some time and seldom do I feel the need to actually be one of the people that writes anything on it; I don't find pleasure in riling up the teenage keyboard warriors and doped up college students haphazardly exploring existentialist theories reading Nitze, among other things. With that said, I'm just going to go ahead and dowse the naive, un-sensible bandwagon of social justice with gasoline and watch it burn. Why? Because, I don't quite understand why so many of you don't see the purpose of organizations like the AFA and why it is important that they remain all inclusive to, yes, white people.

    Asatru is to people of white, European heritage what Wellesley College is to a woman. One seeks to preserve, admire and spiritually bond with an ancestral spiritual lineage. The other seeks to capitalize on, and promote individually successful and intelligent woman for the world. Both are inclusive, and if people who don't fit their mold or are so unrelated would be included within them, they would lose all meaning and purpose. This is obvious. But.....

    Most of you don't see it that way. This is the funny thing about leftist ideology. Your so hooked on these things like "gender queer" and "pansexual" and of course, white privilege, that you have found your selves so drowned in the waters of self pity and victimization that you can't see that your own ideology is equally as elitist as the people's that you ruthlessly attack and condemn. And for what? Not worshiping grown men who dress like women? For not worshiping black men who get hurt when getting arrested for blatantly breaking the law? For not accommodating people who fail to integrate into society because they were raised poorly, so you build them a safe space to protect them from the big bad world?

    Grow the hell up. The world is tough, and people have to stick together and find who they can to help get them through it, WITH DIGNITY AND HONOR ATTACHED. All I see here are weak people who are poor losers in the rat race that is life. You created all of this racial and sexist tension as a weapon to criminalize the strong people of this world because you can't cope with it. Your only way to get to the top is to desecrate the image of the strong and well disciplined people by associating their best qualities with negativity to drag them down below you.

    It's not right to be racist but its not right to abandon your heritage and the legacy that comes with it that you all have a duty to preserve( be it one of European or African heritage). Its not right to tell a man that he can't have his genitals cut off so he can wear high heels but it isn't right to normalize it either just because he can't cope with actually just being a regular gay guy(which there is nothing wrong being gay). Its not right to mistreat people but its definitely not right to coddle the weak and emotionally feeble when what they need is for you to help them get tougher so they can face the world with some semblance of honor.

    Asatru organizations like the AFA are not all forums for the big bad white man and his bigoted children, its just for regular white folks. You have taken such easily twisted things and made what was not too long ago said into what you wanted it to be, to match your agenda and the agenda of your handlers in your coffee shops and universities so that you have something to rant about; so you could suck from the souls of others to fill the bottomless pit of your own insatiable hunger for self gratification and self righteousness. The greatest irony of it all is the subsequent homogenization that is coming down the road and the destruction of individuality that comes with that. I hope you all lay awake at night in sadness when you think about what it is you're actually about but sadly I know none of you lose a moment of sleep.

    That's all.
    I'm not entirely sure that this post would not have been better suited for a forum or a section of this forum explicitly dedicated to political and/or social issues. While one's religious and political beliefs can certainly influence one another, there is very little in your post about Asatru.

    There is startlingly little in historical Heathen cultures that is relevant to modern social and political issues. Issues related to race, the environment, the proper role of government, etc. were so different or nonexistent in these cultures that it is really a stretch to justify virtually any recognizable political opinion in a modern society with reference to Germanic-speaking societies of the first millennium.

    Asatru does not teach us to be proud of our European heritage, nor does it teach us to live successfully in a multicultural society. It does not teach us to protect the environment, nor does it give us carte blanche to damage it. It is not for or against the welfare state or assisted suicide or same-sex marriage, or virtually any other important political issue today.

    The establishment of a gift cycle with Gods, wights and ancestors are things that we can say come from those cultures. But if one wants to add pride in their regional/racial heritage, that is their decision, and not something that can be laid at the feet of cultures that have not existed for a millennium. If one wants to support non-binary notions of gender that is their decision and is not something that can be attributed to Germanic-speaking people in the first millennium.

    If you wish to discuss the religious traditions of historical Heathen cultures, this place may be of some benefit to you. If you wish to discuss political issues related to race and gender, other sections of this forum and/or other forums may be of greater utility.
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    Re: Asatru V.S. Social Marxism

    Quote Originally Posted by Megatherium View Post
    The establishment of a gift cycle with Gods, wights and ancestors are things that we can say come from those cultures. But if one wants to add pride in their regional/racial heritage, that is their decision, and not something that can be laid at the feet of cultures that have not existed for a millennium. If one wants to support non-binary notions of gender that is their decision and is not something that can be attributed to Germanic-speaking people in the first millennium.
    Well said. This was the sentiment I was trying to express above (but posting at midnight when I was tired robbed me of eloquence, ).

    From my standpoint, the religion is about gifting the gods. When someone brings a gift to the gods, I don't really ask questions what ethnicity they are, or how they define themselves in terms of gender and sexuality.

    If some people want a "religion" of heterosexual Caucasians I cannot stop them. But I am bemused and offended as to why they have to insert my gods into it.

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    Re: Asatru V.S. Social Marxism

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokingbeavis View Post
    I'm with Tom. You seem quite upset and I'm a little worried about you.

    There's a lot said in your rant that other people have already addressed, but I'm curious about exactly why you think your particular brand of conservatism advocates for individuality. You express animosity towards trans people and your pronoun field makes it annoyingly obvious; you advocate for individuality but you want us to conform to your brand of normal. Freedom isn't freedom when it's within the bounds of what's acceptable to you.

    As far as the dissonance between your claims of honor and the content of your post, I'm just gonna go ahead and point to the last quote in my sig: "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self."

    Your post has a snobbish tone that makes you seem just as elitist as you generalize liberals to be, and there is nothing noble or honorable in that.
    Last edited by HarpingHawke; 19 Mar 2017 at 09:40 AM. Reason: Changed wording of italicized line
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    Re: Asatru V.S. Social Marxism

    Quote Originally Posted by Megatherium View Post
    I'm not entirely sure that this post would not have been better suited for a forum or a section of this forum explicitly dedicated to political and/or social issues. While one's religious and political beliefs can certainly influence one another, there is very little in your post about Asatru.
    I also question how he claims that seeing groups that exclude people on the basis of their race as not productive contributors to the religion they claim to be part of as being "social Marxism". There's plenty of people who would never identify as socialist or marxist who are anti-white supremacist groups. Same thing goes for respecting people's gender identities.

    (As an aside, not all trans women are attracted to men. There are plenty that exclusively date women and/or nonbinary people, so claiming that they are trying to perform hetero-normative behavior by transitioning is basically incorrect. Same goes for trans men when it comes to their sexuality, they can be attracted to people of any gender. Sexuality and gender are not inherently linked.)

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