collapse

* Recent Posts

"Christ Is King" by Altair
[Today at 01:09:34 am]


Re: Cill Shift Schedule by SunflowerP
[Yesterday at 11:04:57 pm]


Re: Stellar Bling: The Good, the Bad, the OMG! by SunflowerP
[March 21, 2024, 11:21:37 pm]


Re: Spring Has Sprung! 2024 Edition by SunflowerP
[March 21, 2024, 10:24:10 pm]


Stellar Bling: The Good, the Bad, the OMG! by Altair
[March 21, 2024, 02:52:34 pm]

Author Topic: Wishes and superstition - I feel 'hamstrung'  (Read 1770 times)

PerditaPickle

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: UK
  • Posts: 2104
  • Country: england
  • Total likes: 641
  • It's all metta - at least, I believe it should be
    • View Profile
    • Portrait of Perpetual Perplexity
  • Religion: Druid-ish
  • Preferred Pronouns: She/her/hers
Wishes and superstition - I feel 'hamstrung'
« on: March 04, 2017, 05:06:41 pm »
I wanted to try a sort of scaled-back candle 'magic'.  I did an internet search to find a method.  The example was to do with wishing for financial prosperity.  So I decided to do exactly that; better finances would be welcome at the moment and as it was my first attempt I thought it best (initially) to follow the example pretty closely.

Just as I was about to go for it I suddenly had a crippling moment of superstition around making the wish and the subsequent consequences.

I.e. if I were to make that wish the outcome would (in my mind) only come from something negative/traumatic which I would never want to happen, like the death of a relative and then an inheritance.

So I didn't go ahead.

After about a week of thinking this over I decided to rephrase the 'I wish...' to 'I will it...' (which is actually more in-keeping with my outlook on things Pagan, anyway).

But I still didn't dare do anything around prosperity, because of this superstition.

I think the superstition probably arose from fictional source/s like films and TV, Twilight Zone episodes and similar where a mischievous entity (genie or whatever) would slightly twist a person's wish to be what they asked for and at the same time not what they wanted.

But it was so very clear in my mind what would have happened had I made that original wish.

Has anyone else ever come up against anything like this?  How did/would you get past it?  Do you 'wish' or 'will' stuff, or simply exclusively use visualisation?

tl;dr = do you feel superstitious about making wishes & such?
“Radiate boundless love towards the entire world — above, below, and across — unhindered, without ill will, without enmity.” – The Buddha
(From the Metta Sutta)

My Portrait of Perpetual Perplexity blog

Darkhawk

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 5219
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 1123
    • View Profile
    • Suns in her Branches
  • Religion: An American Werewolf in the Akhet; Kemetic; Feri; Imaginary Baltic Heathen; Discordian; UU; CoX; Etc
  • Preferred Pronouns: any of he, they, she
Re: Wishes and superstition - I feel 'hamstrung'
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2017, 05:19:00 pm »
Quote from: Pickle;203424
Has anyone else ever come up against anything like this?  How did/would you get past it?  Do you 'wish' or 'will' stuff, or simply exclusively use visualisation?

 
My teacher says that when working magic, you need to not only visualise your desired outcome, but you have to close the door on unacceptable means of attaining it.  The visualised outcome as a complete thing has to include that it does not come by the routes you don't want.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

PerditaPickle

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: UK
  • Posts: 2104
  • Country: england
  • Total likes: 641
  • It's all metta - at least, I believe it should be
    • View Profile
    • Portrait of Perpetual Perplexity
  • Religion: Druid-ish
  • Preferred Pronouns: She/her/hers
Re: Wishes and superstition - I feel 'hamstrung'
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2017, 05:29:00 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;203426
My teacher says that when working magic, you need to not only visualise your desired outcome, but you have to close the door on unacceptable means of attaining it.  The visualised outcome as a complete thing has to include that it does not come by the routes you don't want.

 
Thank you, that did cross my mind, and then my mind "fell over" the concept of: how can I possibly specify those routes I don't want the outcome to come by.  Wouldn't I be at it all day?

I'm not a very visual person at all, everything I do tends to revolve around words (even within my own mind - instead of visualising I tend to think a description of whatever it is that most other people would almost certainly visualise, if that makes sense).
“Radiate boundless love towards the entire world — above, below, and across — unhindered, without ill will, without enmity.” – The Buddha
(From the Metta Sutta)

My Portrait of Perpetual Perplexity blog

Darkhawk

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 5219
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 1123
    • View Profile
    • Suns in her Branches
  • Religion: An American Werewolf in the Akhet; Kemetic; Feri; Imaginary Baltic Heathen; Discordian; UU; CoX; Etc
  • Preferred Pronouns: any of he, they, she
Re: Wishes and superstition - I feel 'hamstrung'
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2017, 05:32:10 pm »
Quote from: Pickle;203428
Thank you, that did cross my mind, and then my mind "fell over" the concept of: how can I possibly specify those routes I don't want the outcome to come by.  Wouldn't I be at it all day?


Nobody said this magic shit was easy!

Quote
I'm not a very visual person at all, everything I do tends to revolve around words (even within my own mind - instead of visualising I tend to think a description of whatever it is that most other people would almost certainly visualise, if that makes sense).

 
"Visualise" is a really bad word, really, which privileges people with sight-based mental constructions over everyone else.  "Embody" is also a plausible word.  "Fully comprehend", "grok"....

Jenett's http://gleewood.org/seeking/doing/visualisation/ might help, and linked pages.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

PerditaPickle

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: UK
  • Posts: 2104
  • Country: england
  • Total likes: 641
  • It's all metta - at least, I believe it should be
    • View Profile
    • Portrait of Perpetual Perplexity
  • Religion: Druid-ish
  • Preferred Pronouns: She/her/hers
Re: Wishes and superstition - I feel 'hamstrung'
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2017, 05:38:18 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;203430
Nobody said this magic shit was easy!


Ah, this is true.

Quote from: Darkhawk;203430
Jenett's http://gleewood.org/seeking/doing/visualisation/ might help, and linked pages.


Good idea - I was probably a bit over-eager, actually, and could certainly have spent a bit more time researching before I decided to go ahead.

Thanks for your input.

How do others get around this sort of thing?
“Radiate boundless love towards the entire world — above, below, and across — unhindered, without ill will, without enmity.” – The Buddha
(From the Metta Sutta)

My Portrait of Perpetual Perplexity blog

Jenett

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Boston, MA
  • Posts: 3743
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 1235
    • View Profile
    • Seeking: First steps on a path
  • Religion: Initiatory religious witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: Wishes and superstition - I feel 'hamstrung'
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2017, 05:38:40 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;203426
My teacher says that when working magic, you need to not only visualise your desired outcome, but you have to close the door on unacceptable means of attaining it.  The visualised outcome as a complete thing has to include that it does not come by the routes you don't want.

 
And related, I think this is one of the places where thinking about what's likely and probable helps a lot.

If you're looking at prosperity workings, it's relatively unlikely a large sum of money is going to drop on your head out of the blue. (And the most of the likely sources of that are not happy things for some of the people involved, like inheritances or settlements for injuries or other similar kinds of issues.) And playing the lottery, well, if that worked more reliably, I'd know more witches who'd won the lottery than who worked for it.

So, if you look at encouraging more probable sources of better finances, you end up looking at things that are also less likely to have negative effects - for some people, that's magic supporting them in figuring out a budget and sticking to it.

In some cases that's magic supporting getting a better job with more money (or a second job). In some cases, magic can help stablise a chaotic life, and make it easier to plan for what you're doing rather than lurching from crisis to crisis (which can be incredibly expensive.)

All of those are good for other reasons than just "I have more money in the bank", too, but another big point in their favour is that while they might be difficult (for you or for other people those things effect), they're not going to bring major harm to anyone in the picture.

(The one weird place that goes is that obviously, if you get a job, everyone else who applied for it doesn't. But someone's going to get that job, and as long as you aren't misrepresenting yourself, magic to help yourself interview better, be more clear, etc. is the same kind of thing as dressing appropriately for the interview, practicing answers to likely questions, etc. that you should also be doing. The people making the hiring decisions still have free will and ability to choose.)
Seek Knowledge, Find Wisdom: Research help on esoteric and eclectic topics (consulting and other services)

Seeking: first steps on a Pagan path (advice for seekers and people new to Paganism)

Jenett

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Boston, MA
  • Posts: 3743
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 1235
    • View Profile
    • Seeking: First steps on a path
  • Religion: Initiatory religious witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: Wishes and superstition - I feel 'hamstrung'
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2017, 05:42:58 pm »
Quote from: Pickle;203432

How do others get around this sort of thing?

 
The visualisation thing?

Practice.

In my case, also a good couple of years years playing immersive video games on a regular basis also helped a lot (In my case, mostly World of Warcraft.)

When I started my witchy training, I could create things in my mind that were sounds or tactile sensations or spatial relationship pretty easily, but visual stuff was much harder.

Playing the games helped me get a sense of how the spatial stuff fit with the visual, and reading a lot of different kinds of visual (often fairly stylised) info, and building it into what I was doing. Because it was a game, it was simplified, and I wasn't worried about falling over something on the ground (like I would be if I were wandering around the physical world) or having to limit the kinds of things I could see to things physically near me, etc.
Seek Knowledge, Find Wisdom: Research help on esoteric and eclectic topics (consulting and other services)

Seeking: first steps on a Pagan path (advice for seekers and people new to Paganism)

PerditaPickle

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: UK
  • Posts: 2104
  • Country: england
  • Total likes: 641
  • It's all metta - at least, I believe it should be
    • View Profile
    • Portrait of Perpetual Perplexity
  • Religion: Druid-ish
  • Preferred Pronouns: She/her/hers
Re: Wishes and superstition - I feel 'hamstrung'
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2017, 06:00:17 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;203433
So, if you look at encouraging more probable sources of better finances, you end up looking at things that are also less likely to have negative effects


This all makes a lot of sense, thank you.

It's not as though I'm in dire need of magically improving my finances at this moment, exactly - I just feel I need to find a way around this so that I don't end up restricting my potential repertoire of 'workings' I can attempt in the future.
 
Quote from: Jenett;203434
The visualisation thing?

Practice.


Yeah, I know - I'm just not very good at finding/devoting the time to it.  I intend to try and get better at this, and a chunk of time on Saturday/Sunday mornings which used to be devoted to some other activities is now going to be devoted to meditation and suchlike, so hopefully some regular practice will become part of my weekly routine.

Quote from: Jenett;203434
In my case, also a good couple of years years playing immersive video games on a regular basis also helped a lot (In my case, mostly World of Warcraft.)


Funnily enough, my husband just talked me into returning to WoW after a break of quite some time!  It tends to leave my brain feeling quite "fried" though, so not sure if it will help me out in quite the same way.  :)
“Radiate boundless love towards the entire world — above, below, and across — unhindered, without ill will, without enmity.” – The Buddha
(From the Metta Sutta)

My Portrait of Perpetual Perplexity blog

sevensons

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2017
  • Posts: 478
  • Country: gb
  • Total likes: 29
    • View Profile
Re: Wishes and superstition - I feel 'hamstrung'
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2017, 05:54:53 am »
Quote from: Pickle;203424


Just as I was about to go for it I suddenly had a crippling moment of superstition around making the wish and the subsequent consequences.


I think the superstition probably arose from fictional source/s like films and TV, Twilight Zone episodes and similar where a mischievous entity (genie or whatever) would slightly twist a person's wish to be what they asked for and at the same time not what they wanted.

 Absolutely think of your actions before you act.

It means nothing to the media to warp ones brain.
Awaken myself alive and well loving to start learning today ahead a challenge set by the Gods. Haven't

Instagram stevejomac

Emma Eldritch

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Posts: 1265
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 68
    • View Profile
    • https://rocknrollwitch.blogspot.ca/
Re: Wishes and superstition - I feel 'hamstrung'
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2017, 01:30:40 pm »
Quote from: Pickle;203432
Good idea - I was probably a bit over-eager, actually, and could certainly have spent a bit more time researching before I decided to go ahead.


Eh, go easy on yourself. While I am a big fan of research, for spellwork I honestly think you learn a lot just by trying stuff. I don't even know how many spells I tried when I was first starting out that I had just found in some book.

Anyway, obviously the experience was a learning one since here you are now, asking questions and improving your understanding of things. So good came of it anyway.

I did want to throw in one more comment about upping your chances of success while also possibly setting your mind at ease re: the old "Then my great aunt died!" feelings. If there's ever a chance to sit down and work out what the issues blocking you from achieving your goals are, I suggest doing so and enchanting accordingly, rather than aiming for the 'big' goal.

For example: Say you're always broke, but not because your job sucks - maybe you keep having big shit happen, like your car breaks down, then you need to go to the dentist, then your hair dryer explodes etc etc. So you're bleeding money. In that case, constructing a "money stay with me" spell might be more effective than "Prosperity." It's just narrowing the focus a bit. (And doesn't involve Great Aunt Judith.)

unveiledartist

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2016
  • Posts: 59
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Wishes and superstition - I feel 'hamstrung'
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2017, 05:36:10 pm »
Quote from: Pickle;203424
Has anyone else ever come up against anything like this?  How did/would you get past it?  Do you 'wish' or 'will' stuff, or simply exclusively use visualisation?

tl;dr = do you feel superstitious about making wishes & such?


In my experience, and this may seem "unorthodox" I consider the objects and action the actual "wish/will" rather than visualization.

When I light a candle each morning, that candle and flame itself is the prayer or ritual. So, even though I may (and many times I do) feel superstitious about it, I say that it works regardless of how I feel about it.

For example, if we willed or wished for an life raft to float in the water but it has a hole in it, all the wishin' and willin' in the world won't keep that raft afloat. Though, if we cap the hole and blow air in it and set it out to sea (the ritual) then it would float regardless of my wishes. The laws of nature are independent of us so if we know lighting a candle will bring present the spirits of our ancestors, then it goes beyond wishin' and willing. You will still feel superstitious, believe me.

Sometimes it will feel plain out silly. Then other times you can take a deep breathe and say "there. thank you." and go on about your day. Even though after and hour or so you actually smile that you did something and that's when the spirits are present when you acknowledge that they are there in actuality.

I don't see a moral problem with wishing and willing. It depends on how much you believe in yourself and in the magic at work. If you come to it half-hearted, then it may not work and may make you feel as you stated. However, I can't assume, of course. Other cases, visualization helps calm the body and helps you "listen" clearly.

There is a benefit in all ways of ritual. I think it would take time for that feeling to go away. Try different methods and see how each work out.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 05:37:06 pm by unveiledartist »

PerditaPickle

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: UK
  • Posts: 2104
  • Country: england
  • Total likes: 641
  • It's all metta - at least, I believe it should be
    • View Profile
    • Portrait of Perpetual Perplexity
  • Religion: Druid-ish
  • Preferred Pronouns: She/her/hers
Re: Wishes and superstition - I feel 'hamstrung'
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2017, 03:01:13 pm »
Quote from: Mama Fortuna;203456
constructing a "money stay with me" spell might be more effective than "Prosperity." It's just narrowing the focus a bit. (And doesn't involve Great Aunt Judith.)

 
Quote from: unveiledartist;203464
Try different methods and see how each work out.


Thank you both for your input  :)
“Radiate boundless love towards the entire world — above, below, and across — unhindered, without ill will, without enmity.” – The Buddha
(From the Metta Sutta)

My Portrait of Perpetual Perplexity blog

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
6 Replies
1290 Views
Last post November 07, 2012, 03:54:20 pm
by Gilbride
20 Replies
2208 Views
Last post February 02, 2014, 08:03:46 pm
by HarpingHawke
5 Replies
1191 Views
Last post August 06, 2015, 08:22:59 am
by veggiewolf
3 Replies
4344 Views
Last post February 22, 2021, 11:11:10 pm
by entwife
1 Replies
349 Views
Last post June 22, 2023, 03:42:24 am
by SunflowerP

Beginner Area

Warning: You are currently in a Beginner Friendly area of the message board.

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 214
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 0

There aren't any users online.

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Allaya, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Ashmire, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

'Up All Night' Coordinator:
Altair

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Chatelaine, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal