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Author Topic: Games: Pagan values in video (and other) games  (Read 4483 times)

Sefiru

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Pagan values in video (and other) games
« on: March 01, 2017, 06:54:39 pm »
Last fall we had a thread here about pagan values in movies and TV, so I thought I'd start a similar thread about pagan themes in video games (and tabletop games too).

Sometimes they're fairly visible, like Final Fantasy with its elemental crystals and spells.

Sometimes it's subtle - like the Metal Gear series has an underlying theme of people losing touch with the powers of nature as they come to rely more on technology.

What do you think are some good examples of pagan themes in games?
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Beryl

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Re: Pagan values in video (and other) games
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2017, 07:49:06 am »
Quote from: Sefiru;203350
Last fall we had a thread here about pagan values in movies and TV, so I thought I'd start a similar thread about pagan themes in video games (and tabletop games too).

Sometimes they're fairly visible, like Final Fantasy with its elemental crystals and spells.

Sometimes it's subtle - like the Metal Gear series has an underlying theme of people losing touch with the powers of nature as they come to rely more on technology.

What do you think are some good examples of pagan themes in games?

 
Depends what you mean by 'pagan themes', I suppose, but the Elder Scrolls series has a lot of lore that could probably come under this, for instance:

Complex, overlapping pantheons that fall roughly into two camps, Aedra and Daedra (literally 'our ancestors' and 'not our ancestors') - the Aedra are, broadly speaking, 'good' but for various reasons can't typically do much on Mundus (the plane of existence where the 'real world' is and the games mostly take place), beyond perhaps bestowing the odd blessing, and once in a while doing something big and flashy at the end of a main quest. The Daedra/Daedric Princes (who are not necessarily all/always male) are, broadly speaking, 'bad' (though some are more immoral, others more amoral, and some have interests that broadly align with mortal people's interests, e.g. fighting against the undead), but typically have more power on Mundus - some take humanoid form and interact directly with mortals, some offer powerful artefacts in exchange for a task (and your soul, usually), some create vampires and werewolves...

Beyond this, the different societies of Tamriel (the continent where the games take place) have different understandings of the various deities - the Dunmer worship a certain subset of the Daedra, the Altmer's religion has a particular focus on Auri-El who is roughly the same being worshipped in the Imperial Cult as Akatosh (but there are notable differences between the two), the Imperial Cult itself is a sort of hodge podge of various pantheons brought together to form the Nine/Eight Divines, with the addition of Talos, who was (very roughly speaking - he was sort of three dudes rolled into one) the founder of the Empire in question and arguably attempted genocide of the Altmer and is thus not super popular... Basically, a lot of the deities have different 'faces' to different peoples, and some of them are only important to some of the pantheons (e.g. Yffre is mainly Bosmer, but also a few other societies worship him to a lesser extent), while at the same time, they are definitely not soft polytheists - Auri-El might well be Akatosh, but he's definitely not Kynareth or Mara. And, for the most part, people seem to believe in all the relevant Aedra and Daedra existing, they just don't necessarily worship/approve of all of them.

Alchemy/potion making is a major part of the game and is, roughly speaking, herbalism-but-with-animal-parts-too (and uses some actual alchemical equipment, IIRC, though IDK much about IRL alchemy tbh.)

Interesting ideas about souls, and the soul-trapping mechanism (which is essential for enchanting weapons/wearable things) involves magically, well, trapping a creature/opponent's soul/energetic essence in a special type of gemstone.

Some interesting stuff as well about the effects of imposing a unified Imperial Cult pantheon onto existing cultures - more so in Morrowind and possibly the first two games which I haven't played, in Oblivion the game takes place in Cyrodiil which is basically where the Empire is based. In Skyrim it's more the after effects of having imposed the Imperial pantheon and then saying 'actually, no, you can't worship that one because we had to make a pretty awful agreement to end a massive war' (this would be Talos, as mentioned above, not a great dude before deification, if you were an Altmer - and there are probably a few Altmer still alive who remember when Talos was alive...)

There's also a few dead deities, most notably Lorkhan (who is maybe a little bit in Talos and maybe also in the player character of Skyrim), whose dead body somehow became the two moons seen in the sky over Nirn. I'm probably missing other stuff.

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Re: Pagan values in video (and other) games
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2017, 08:07:34 am »
Quote from: Sefiru;203350

What do you think are some good examples of pagan themes in games?

I like contrasting the later Persona series with Raido Kuzunoha. Their sets of mythic and folkloric beings have the same animation but are programmed and treated differently in-story between the two games. In the former, they're products of the main character's psyche. (I would argue that, say, Nyx or Izanami are borne of the collective subconscious.) In the latter, they're autonomous and otherworldly.
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Re: Pagan values in video (and other) games
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2017, 10:05:40 am »
Quote from: Sefiru;203350


What do you think are some good examples of pagan themes in games?

 
I second that Elder Scrolls games have a lot of Pagan elements in them.

Skyforge is a really interesting MMO that is based off the idea that you are an immortal who is working your way up to being a full fledged god(ess) by helping people in different parts of the world, thereby gathering up followers (who worship you).

The Secret World has a lot of 'based on real world' lore and magic theory.  It's one reason I'm so in love with it.  It's also an MMO, based on the idea that you are working for one of three secret societies and protecting the mundane world from all the crazy things that go bump in the night.  But quests may require you to gather ingredients, perform spells or travel to the spirit world and do things there to effect the real world.

For non-computer games, pretty much the whole White Wolf roleplaying franchise has deep roots in Paganism and Occultism.  Again, many of their elements are inspired by real-world things.  It is actually one of the first places that I encountered some of the Wiccan ideas (like Sabbats).
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Re: Pagan values in video (and other) games
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2017, 06:54:48 pm »
Quote from: Faemon;203364
I like contrasting the later Persona series with Raido Kuzunoha. Their sets of mythic and folkloric beings have the same animation but are programmed and treated differently in-story between the two games. In the former, they're products of the main character's psyche. (I would argue that, say, Nyx or Izanami are borne of the collective subconscious.) In the latter, they're autonomous and otherworldly.


Now there's an interesting idea. I'll have to check out those games (or at least a Let's Play).

I also like the backstory of Assassin's Creed, though that is less 'pagan themes' than 'new age themes,' what with the mind-control conspiracies, alien artifacts, ancient technological civilizations, and so on.

And of course there's Pokemon, which is all about nature and elemental spirits (many based on Japanese folklore).
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Sobekemiti

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Re: Pagan values in video (and other) games
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2017, 09:33:58 am »
Quote from: Sefiru;203350


What do you think are some good examples of pagan themes in games?

 
I feel like it's possibly too obvious to mention Age of Mythology and the Titans expansion? I mean, I'd never suggest it as any sort of educational game, because the mythology is a mess (it is inconsistently accurate), but it's hard to walk away from a game that not only includes the gods, but also god powers, and Titans that will stomp your enemy villages to the ground. It also has my 100% all-time favourite Isis artwork, so. I am a bit biased.

Also, seconding Pokémon. And not just because my gods have been known to claim Pokémon as avatars of Themselves.
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Re: Pagan values in video (and other) games
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2017, 11:57:22 am »
Quote from: Sefiru;203350

Sometimes they're fairly visible, like Final Fantasy with its elemental crystals and spells.

 
Year Walk takes Swedish folklore (not sure how accurate it is, but it seems legit) and turns it into a beautiful, intriguing puzzle game. It's honestly my favorite game at the moment, and you can get through it in about an hour if you *write shit down.* Seriously. I highly recommend it, but grab a notebook if you're going to play.

I'd rather not give too much away, but it's pretty Pagan-leaning to me.
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Re: Pagan values in video (and other) games
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2017, 06:33:46 pm »
Quote from: Sobekemiti;203476
I feel like it's possibly too obvious to mention Age of Mythology and the Titans expansion?


I'm not familiar with that one. I tend to think pagan imagery is one thing and pagan ideas are another, when it comes to media; the stuff that has pagan ideas without the imagery would be harder to spot (and probably less common than the other way around).
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Sobekemiti

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Re: Pagan values in video (and other) games
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2017, 10:48:52 pm »
Quote from: Sefiru;203492
I'm not familiar with that one. I tend to think pagan imagery is one thing and pagan ideas are another, when it comes to media; the stuff that has pagan ideas without the imagery would be harder to spot (and probably less common than the other way around).

 
Well, it is a pretty old game, I think it came out in 2002. If you're not into real-time strategy/RTS, you may not have given it much notice. I perhaps made it sound less than it is, but there's just something about this game that keeps drawing me in. It throws together Greek myth with Egyptian and Norse myth in really interesting ways.

There's also a part where a Nubian warrior woman, Amanra, goes around collecting the pieces of Osiris' body; Amanra has stuck in my head for a very long time, and maybe I see her as Isis, just a little bit. This is Mythic Time. There are gods, heroes, and mortals all over the place, interacting in really interesting ways. You want a model for polytheism, and pantheon mixing, this is your game. And the gods aren't just game mechanics or figments in the campaign narrative, they're real beings that turn up and mess with things, dragging their heroes ever onwards.

Maybe it's not Pagan in the way some might be happy with, and maybe the way the myths are used isn't going to work for everyone, but you don't often see the old myths used this way in games, and maybe that's why it's stuck with me. Maybe that's just because I'm not into fantasy-style roleplaying games, where there's more mythology. I don't know. Then again, sending meteors onto your enemies with Djehuty's god power is still the best fun I've ever had in a video game. Hands down.
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Re: Pagan values in video (and other) games
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2017, 12:08:30 pm »
Quote from: Sefiru;203350
Sometimes they're fairly visible, like Final Fantasy with its elemental crystals and spells.


I wouldn't really consider elemental crystals and spells to necessarily be representative of pagan values because that's more on the magical side rather than the religious side of things imho. Several Final Fantasy games do have things that I would consider to have the possibility to be interpreted as pagan values, though they can also be seen as having pulled their inspiration from Buddhist or Shinto thought.

Final Fantasy VII is actually pretty interesting in that the world that it happens in is an industrial society which is literally run on what is basically the life energy of the planet, which is basically harmful to the entire planet. And the protagonists are trying to stop the energy company that controls everything. There's a lot of discussion about humanity's relationship to the environment around them and the idea that one could "talk to the planet" and how an older civilization (the Cetra) had an entirely different world-view centered around these ideas.

These are certainly not universally applicable to paganism, but a lot of people who consider themselves pagan, could identify with these ideas.

Summons in these games, can also be seen as spirits that aid the summoner and to gain this aid, they have to earn the trust or the right to summon that spirit, which is why in most games, Summoner is a discrete class that only one or two people can access magic from. In Final Fantasy X, it's even actually a kind of religious position.

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Re: Pagan values in video (and other) games
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2017, 06:38:48 pm »
Quote from: Tom;203514

Summons in these games, can also be seen as spirits that aid the summoner and to gain this aid, they have to earn the trust or the right to summon that spirit, which is why in most games, Summoner is a discrete class that only one or two people can access magic from. In Final Fantasy X, it's even actually a kind of religious position.


I was thinking of FF6 too, where most of the magic is derived directly from the Espers via magicite.

The successor series, Bravely Default, seems to involve an elemental-based Christianity analog (ie widespread, organised, professional clergy etc) called the Crystal Orthodoxy, and the antagonists are trying to abolish it. I'm only halfway through, though, so there may yet be twists to come.

On an entirely different note, there's the Phoenix Wright series, which is a courtroom drama, but has ghosts and spirit channeling as a major setting/plot element. Also there's a series-wide theme of speaking truth to power, which is relevant to my own spiritual interests.
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Re: Pagan values in video (and other) games
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2017, 06:42:17 pm »
Quote from: Sobekemiti;203503
Well, it is a pretty old game, I think it came out in 2002. If you're not into real-time strategy/RTS, you may not have given it much notice.


I've never tried any RTS; I'd probably suck as badly as I do at action-adventure. I might look for a Let's Play though.
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Re: Pagan values in video (and other) games
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2017, 11:42:26 pm »
Quote from: Sefiru;203521
I've never tried any RTS; I'd probably suck as badly as I do at action-adventure. I might look for a Let's Play though.

 
Yeah, look, I'm not crash hot at RTS, either, but I get those sort of games. I like them. Even if I am terrible at strategy. I can't say whether you'll like Age of Mythology or not, but you never know. A let's play might pique your interest. You can probably pick it up fairly cheap if you want to have a go at it yourself. It's not a hard game to master in RTS terms, supremacy and conquest will generally work as a strategy 9 times out of 10. Which is why I keep playing it, as well as the Age of Empires series, which I adore.
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Re: Pagan values in video (and other) games
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2017, 11:50:31 am »
Quote from: Sefiru;203350
Last fall we had a thread here about pagan values in movies and TV, so I thought I'd start a similar thread about pagan themes in video games (and tabletop games too).

Sometimes they're fairly visible, like Final Fantasy with its elemental crystals and spells.

Sometimes it's subtle - like the Metal Gear series has an underlying theme of people losing touch with the powers of nature as they come to rely more on technology.

What do you think are some good examples of pagan themes in games?


There is a MOBA called SMITE which calls itself "Battleground of the Gods". Basically it's a PvP game with different match modes pitting Gods of different pantheons against each other. Each God is presented lorewise quite accurately and ceremoniously. Artwork and gameplay match what they represent. Quite some humor there too.
Pantheons: Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Norse, Mayan, Japanese, Chinese, Hindu

Player base is sadly the same as everywhere, but the game itself has been made with quite some love for the subject.

I am posting this just for the record. Playing as a God may not be eventually everyone's cup of tea. I did for a while - it helped me to start reconnecting with the Egyptian Pantheon weirdly enough.

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Re: Pagan values in video (and other) games
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2017, 12:37:52 pm »
Quote from: Tom;203514
These are certainly not universally applicable to paganism, but a lot of people who consider themselves pagan, could identify with these ideas.

 
I think that's the point I come down on, in a lot of things; it's hard for me to point at things that are "pagan values" because that's such a nebulous term.

At the same time, mind, one of my ongoing projects is a visual novel type game that is heavily rooted in folklore and a particular bit of mysticism and related practice, and that's partly a theological project, and so that perhaps involves "pagan values", except that I suspect a lot of pagans would really object to the part about literally fighting a literal devil.

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as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

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