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Thread: Hel x Baldr?

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    Hel x Baldr?

    I was surfing through Tumblr earlier this week and I stumbled some really cute artwork of Baldr and Hel holding hands. I was perplexed, so I read the description. According to the artist, the idea of them as lovers is a relatively modern one.

    I remember reading the story of Baldr's death ages ago, it never occured to me that Hel wanted Him to stay because She was smitten.

    Intrigued, I kept scrolling and eventually came across a rather wordy post. This one saying the exact opposite; Hel didn't need a guy. In fact, Her going steady with Baldr kinda took away some of Her more empowering elements.

    I don't really sit on either side, I think both are equally valid interpretations of the same source material. But I would love to know what you guys think.

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    Re: Hel x Baldr?

    Quote Originally Posted by troll maiden View Post
    I kept scrolling and eventually came across a rather wordy post. This one saying the exact opposite; Hel didn't need a guy (...) going steady with Baldr kinda took away some of Her more empowering elements.
    Only going by your description (I might read it differently if I'd had access to the content referred to)—I understand becoming bored or frustrated by a lifetime of shoehorned romantic subplots, and feeling as though, oh no, here it is again among people I trusted to shake things up...but, to hold one person's creative expression (that could very well imply that Baldr submitted himself to Hela's dominion!) to the inherent/automatic disempowerment of Hela...I feel shows more how ill-founded the detractor's concept of Hela's sovereignty is.

    (Incidentally, have you found any recent threads passionately arguing whether a rock in the sky is best personified as lesbian or asexual for the absolute unanimous best good of all society? Disappointingly ethnocentric, as asexual/aspec lesbians exist, as do lunar deities outside of ancient Greece.)
    Last edited by Faemon; 29 Jan 2017 at 05:14 PM. Reason: jargon modified
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    Re: Hel x Baldr?

    Quote Originally Posted by troll maiden View Post
    I was surfing through Tumblr earlier this week and I stumbled some really cute artwork of Baldr and Hel holding hands. I was perplexed, so I read the description. According to the artist, the idea of them as lovers is a relatively modern one.

    I remember reading the story of Baldr's death ages ago, it never occured to me that Hel wanted Him to stay because She was smitten.

    Intrigued, I kept scrolling and eventually came across a rather wordy post. This one saying the exact opposite; Hel didn't need a guy. In fact, Her going steady with Baldr kinda took away some of Her more empowering elements.

    I don't really sit on either side, I think both are equally valid interpretations of the same source material. But I would love to know what you guys think.
    I tend to go toward the side of Hel not having any sort of consort because I've never gotten the sense that she actually has any interest romantically in anyone. Baldr stayed there because even gods die and besides, why would she want to return a son of Odin when he was the one who banished her as well as having an awful habit of trespassing on her land and bothering people under her care. The Volva wasn't exactly pleased to be raised from her mound after all.

    The only context I've seen Baldr paired off with Hel was also accompanied by someone else's UPG and was used to justify their UPG in a strange way that made me feel very uncomfortable. I don't know if the UPG pairing them together originated somewhere else, but it's really recent as far as I can tell.

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    Re: Hel x Baldr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Faemon View Post
    Only going by your description (I might read it differently if I'd had access to the content referred to)I understand becoming bored or frustrated by a lifetime of shoehorned romantic subplots, and feeling as though, oh no, here it is again among people I trusted to shake things up...but, to hold one person's creative expression (that could very well imply that Baldr submitted himself to Hela's dominion!) to the inherent/automatic disempowerment of Hela...I feel shows more how ill-founded the detractor's concept of Hela's sovereignty is.

    (Incidentally, have you found any recent threads passionately arguing whether a rock in the sky is best personified as lesbian or asexual for the absolute unanimous best good of all society? Disappointingly ethnocentric, as asexual/aspec lesbians exist, as do lunar deities outside of ancient Greece.)
    Oh no no! Those weren't my thoughts, another Tumblr user wrote about it. I just thought she made an interesting counter-point.

    Nope can't say I have. ^^

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    Re: Hel x Baldr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    I tend to go toward the side of Hel not having any sort of consort because I've never gotten the sense that she actually has any interest romantically in anyone. Baldr stayed there because even gods die and besides, why would she want to return a son of Odin when he was the one who banished her as well as having an awful habit of trespassing on her land and bothering people under her care. The Volva wasn't exactly pleased to be raised from her mound after all.

    The only context I've seen Baldr paired off with Hel was also accompanied by someone else's UPG and was used to justify their UPG in a strange way that made me feel very uncomfortable. I don't know if the UPG pairing them together originated somewhere else, but it's really recent as far as I can tell.
    That's the kinda vibe I got from her as well. I always took the story at face value, I never really read anything into Hel keeping Baldr there. If anything I saw it as more an act of spite than love. I totally forgot about the Volva, it's been so long since I've read it. But now that you mention it, I remember reading that part thinking 'wow she does not sound happy.'

    Apparently they're lovers in the comic book series Valhalla. But I'm not sure if it originated there, or if the comics just popularised it. But I agree that it's definitely a modern thing.

    I'm not sure if it'd be something I'd incorporate into my UPG. It just doesn't quite mesh in my head. For me Hel stands as the sole ruler of her domain. But I can the see the appeal of injecting romance into the situation.
    Last edited by troll maiden; 30 Jan 2017 at 05:59 AM. Reason: typo

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    Re: Hel x Baldr?

    Quote Originally Posted by troll maiden View Post
    Oh no no! Those weren't my thoughts,
    I know, I know! Sorry I didn't make it clear I was addressing the detracting poster as you described them, not you directly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    someone else's UPG (...) was used to justify their UPG in a strange way that made me feel very uncomfortable. I don't know if the UPG pairing them together originated somewhere else, but it's really recent as far as I can tell.
    Quote Originally Posted by troll maiden View Post
    Apparently they're lovers in the comic book series Valhalla. But I'm not sure if it originated there, or if the comics just popularised it. But I agree that it's definitely a modern thing.

    I'm not sure if it'd be something I'd incorporate into my UPG. It just doesn't quite mesh in my head. For me Hel stands as the sole ruler of her domain. But I can the see the appeal of injecting romance into the situation.
    Heh...I can't. So not my headcanon either

    Regrettably, then, it seems "Starboard and let ship" doesn't have the same persuasive impact as "ship and let ship"...

    Although I think I remember Aedicula Antinoi's blog (? or someone else's?) having an interesting couple of fanfic chapters/scenes with Hel just dropping by on Hades for no yet discernable reason but to ask interestingly uncomfortable and probably rhetorical questions, and I was kind of like, "...I ship it if it's three sheets to the wind like this!"
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    Re: Hel x Baldr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Faemon View Post
    I know, I know! Sorry I didn't make it clear I was addressing the detracting poster as you described them, not you directly.
    I feel so silly! Sorry if I came across defensive or rude at all.

    I've read the full Tumblr post now..and wow. I have no idea where to start. The user's arguments are just all over the place. She believes that Hel is more empowered if she's asexual/demisexual. Then she complains that the because the relationship was in a comic that it's Pop Culture Paganism, and as such has no place in Heathenry. But then proceeds to moan about the comic as if it is mythological canon.

    I just..cannot roll my eyes hard enough...


    Quote Originally Posted by Faemon View Post
    Although I think I remember Aedicula Antinoi's blog (? or someone else's?) having an interesting couple of fanfic chapters/scenes with Hel just dropping by on Hades for no yet discernable reason but to ask interestingly uncomfortable and probably rhetorical questions, and I was kind of like, "...I ship it if it's three sheets to the wind like this!"
    If she's as much of a domineering nympho as she is in the comics...all I can say is 'Toot Toot! All aboard the SS Nether Realms!'

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    Re: Hel x Baldr?

    Quote Originally Posted by troll maiden View Post
    In my personal opinion, it would go against her character. Indo-european death deities are generally portrayed as infertile and more often than not without a consort, for fairly obvious reasons.

    The exception to this is Hades; assuming Baldr is a fertility deity like Persephone, it would make sense if the Hel/Baldr story would be a highly distorted version of some original indo-european myth.

    However, Hel doesn't seem connected to the *yemo character Hades is derived off.
    Last edited by SunflowerP; 31 Jan 2017 at 05:28 PM. Reason: fixing quote code

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    Re: Hel x Baldr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pteranotropi View Post
    The exception to this is Hades; assuming Baldr is a fertility deity like Persephone, it would make sense if the Hel/Baldr story would be a highly distorted version of some original indo-european myth.

    However, Hel doesn't seem connected to the *yemo character Hades is derived off.
    I don't really know what Baldr is the god of. But he's often referred to as a god of love, peace and other such nice, fuzzy things. If anything, I think Freyr and Njrr are closer to Persephone in terms of their function.

    You could say that it's two polar opposites being attracted to each other. Which is probably why they're coupled together in the comic.

    I don't know what '*yemo' means. ^^;

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    Re: Hel x Baldr?

    Quote Originally Posted by troll maiden View Post
    I don't know what '*yemo' means. ^^;
    The proto-indo-european reconstruction of the god that latter became Hades and Yama

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