collapse

* Recent Posts

"Christ Is King" by Altair
[Today at 01:09:34 am]


Re: Cill Shift Schedule by SunflowerP
[Yesterday at 11:04:57 pm]


Re: Stellar Bling: The Good, the Bad, the OMG! by SunflowerP
[March 21, 2024, 11:21:37 pm]


Re: Spring Has Sprung! 2024 Edition by SunflowerP
[March 21, 2024, 10:24:10 pm]


Stellar Bling: The Good, the Bad, the OMG! by Altair
[March 21, 2024, 02:52:34 pm]

Author Topic: Greek Heroes  (Read 1424 times)

EclecticWheel

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2013
  • Location: Texas
  • Posts: 763
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 193
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Christo-Eclectic
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Greek Heroes
« on: January 27, 2017, 10:39:47 am »
I am currently brushing up on Greek mythology: the basic myths and characters, adventures, and some background on religious beliefs.

My understanding so far about the heroes is that they were deified later or semi-divine, at least some of them.  They are "larger than life" figures.

My question: how do heroes compare to saints?  Are they not necessarily noble figures?  What would you say most characterized heroes in myth and your practices?
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

EclecticWheel

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2013
  • Location: Texas
  • Posts: 763
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 193
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Christo-Eclectic
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Greek Heroes
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2017, 10:49:34 am »
Quote from: EclecticWheel;201938
I am currently brushing up on Greek mythology: the basic myths and characters, adventures, and some background on religious beliefs.

My understanding so far about the heroes is that they were deified later or semi-divine, at least some of them.  They are "larger than life" figures.

My question: how do heroes compare to saints?  Are they not necessarily noble figures?  What would you say most characterized heroes in myth and your practices?

 
Clarification: I mean Christian saints in particular.
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

Chatelaine

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 773
  • Country: gb
  • Total likes: 93
  • Metaphors be with you.
    • View Profile
    • Are We There Yet?
  • Religion: Eastern Orthodox Christian
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her/hers
Re: Greek Heroes
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2017, 03:34:18 pm »
Quote from: EclecticWheel;201938
My question: how do heroes compare to saints?  Are they not necessarily noble figures?  What would you say most characterized heroes in myth and your practices?


Well, Greek heroes tend to be either demigods to start with, or find favour with some god later. They live lives of great glory, then it all goes to hell, usually through stupid pride, and they come to sorry ends. Herakles goes mad (twice), loses his family (twice!) and self-immolates. Theseus loses wife and son, goes into exile and is murdered out of suspicion. Jason loses wife and kids and dies alone, crushed by his rotting ship. Bellerophon tries to fly to Olympus, is thrown off for his sacrilege and lives out his days as a blind cripple. Some are taken up to live with the gods, others are turned into constellations, most are remembered with a 'so much promise, such a pity' attitude.

Christian saints, on the other hand, can come from any background, but they all have in common lives of self-effacement, abnegation and asceticism. Some suffer torture and martyrdom rather than deny their faith, while others (especially the monastics) live long lives of hardship and service, supporting and sustaining their communities. In both cases, there are testimonies of visions and healings long after their deaths.
 
So, as far as I see, the answer to your question is 'not much common ground at all'.
'You created us restless, O Lord, and we find no rest until we rest in You.'
~St Augustine~
Whole blog o' nonsense: Are We There Yet?

Altair

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: New York, New York
  • *
  • Posts: 3752
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 937
  • Fly high and make the world follow
    • View Profile
    • Songs of the Metamythos
  • Religion: tree-hugging pagan
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Greek Heroes
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2017, 05:05:43 pm »
Quote from: Chatelaine;201944
So, as far as I see, the answer to your question is 'not much common ground at all'.


But the contrasts are interesting, and what they say about the respective cultures (classical Greek vs. Christian) seem downright illuminating.

Greeks: The exalted among us strive for glory, but when they get it, look out!
Christians: The exalted among us suffer a lot but get their reward in the afterlife.

I liked your overview of the two different propositions very much. Does my summary do it justice?
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Chatelaine

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 773
  • Country: gb
  • Total likes: 93
  • Metaphors be with you.
    • View Profile
    • Are We There Yet?
  • Religion: Eastern Orthodox Christian
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her/hers
Re: Greek Heroes
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2017, 06:18:34 pm »
Quote from: Altair;201947
But the contrasts are interesting, and what they say about the respective cultures (classical Greek vs. Christian) seem downright illuminating.

Greeks: The exalted among us strive for glory, but when they get it, look out!
Christians: The exalted among us suffer a lot but get their reward in the afterlife.

I liked your overview of the two different propositions very much. Does my summary do it justice?


You're quite close, actually. The whole discipline of ancient Greek tragedy is built around the single idea of hubris - a hero growing too big for his britches and needing to be brought low for cosmic order to be restored. The Olympians like giving a hand, but don't appreciate competition from mortals, not even their own children or half-siblings.

The Christian road to sanctity, on the other hand, starts with Christ saying: 'Whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant, and whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave, just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve', and humanity responding: 'Not my will, Lord, but Thine'.
'You created us restless, O Lord, and we find no rest until we rest in You.'
~St Augustine~
Whole blog o' nonsense: Are We There Yet?

Louisvillian

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 405
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 69
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Syncretic religio romana/Hellenised Romano-British religion
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Greek Heroes
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2017, 11:51:54 pm »
Quote from: Chatelaine;201944
So, as far as I see, the answer to your question is 'not much common ground at all'.

In their conceptions, I entirely agree with you. But we have to consider practice and cult, also. The ways in which heroes were venerated and honoured in Hellenic and Hellenistic Antiquity has marked similarities to the veneration of Saints; especially in the sense that they are ultimately the honouring of (usually) mortals who performed impactful deeds. The Ancient Greeks venerated heroes that the poetry described as rather awful people, but cult differed from myth a lot of the time.

At the very least, I would consider there to be more similarity and connection between the Greek hero cults and the later cults of Christian saints, than between saints and gods.

Tags:
 

Related Topics


* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 194
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Allaya, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Ashmire, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

'Up All Night' Coordinator:
Altair

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Chatelaine, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal