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Author Topic: Theory of Hekate as Originally a Sun Goddess  (Read 3615 times)

Khep

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Theory of Hekate as Originally a Sun Goddess
« on: January 22, 2017, 02:37:29 pm »
I'm wondering if this theory has gained any traction in neo-pagan circles since this was published in 2010.  

Hecate: An Anatolian Sun-Goddess of the Underworld

The author, Mary Bachvarova, is a prof. of Classics at Willamette U.
Mary R. Bachvarova

I've only read the abstract linked above, but it sounds interesting:

Quote

[. . .] Greek hexametric poetry has been shown to draw on motifs attested in Hurro-Hittite song (Bachvarova 2005), and Greek prayers to be indebted to Hittite prototypes (Bachvarova 2009), but they have interesting implications for the goddess's history. First, the very similar descriptions of the goddesses' powers support those who see Hecate as originating from an Anatolian (Carian) goddess (Kraus; contra Berg), despite her Greek name (Janda). Secondly, they allow us to use other mentions of underworld sun-goddesses in Hittite incantations to better understand Hecate's development as a terrifying goddess of magic and concomitantly the roots of Greek magical practices.


Also . . . is anyone familiar with the idea of "underworld sun-goddesses"?
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Khep

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Re: Theory of Hekate as Originally a Sun Goddess
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2017, 11:00:09 pm »
Quote from: Khep;201717


Also . . . is anyone familiar with the idea of "underworld sun-goddesses"?


I think I may have partially answered this for myself. This blog post by Stephanie Woodfield lists several sun goddesses who travel to the underworld. For example:
Quote

Bast, another Egyptian sun Goddess, nightly descended into the underworld to battle the serpent Apep, who embodied chaos.


The Sun in the Underworld

. . . so perhaps this same / similar general motif is part of the "underworld sun-goddesses" phrasing Bachvarova uses in the abstract.
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Re: Theory of Hekate as Originally a Sun Goddess
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2017, 02:50:27 pm »
Quote from: Khep;201717
I'm wondering if this theory has gained any traction in neo-pagan circles since this was published in 2010.  

Hecate: An Anatolian Sun-Goddess of the Underworld

The author, Mary Bachvarova, is a prof. of Classics at Willamette U.
Mary R. Bachvarova

I've only read the abstract linked above, but it sounds interesting:



Also . . . is anyone familiar with the idea of "underworld sun-goddesses"?

 
This looks interesting to me, since I've been working with Hekate a fair amount myself lately, and I've noticed that the angle I take on her is more focused on her role as psychopomp.

I'll try to read the whole thing when I can, but from the abstract it looks like the author is not making the argument that the goddess we know as "Hekate" is exclusively an Anatolian sun-goddess but rather that such a goddess was a very strong influence on her earliest Hellenic mentions by Hesiod.

It seems very plausible to me, given her association with torch-bearing (Dionysos in his role as Iacchus is a torchbearer and he was definitely a "night-time sun" god who descended to the underworld), but of course, as the abstract points out, it wouldn't explain all her characteristics, which are the result of millennia of syncretism and development.

As I work with Hekate primarily in her Eleusinian aspect, where she is contrasted to Helios, I will probably continue to treat her as manifest in the moon in my practice.


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Khep

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Re: Theory of Hekate as Originally a Sun Goddess
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2017, 06:34:50 pm »
Quote from: Eastling;201754
This looks interesting to me, since I've been working with Hekate a fair amount myself lately, and I've noticed that the angle I take on her is more focused on her role as psychopomp.

I'll try to read the whole thing when I can, but from the abstract it looks like the author is not making the argument that the goddess we know as "Hekate" is exclusively an Anatolian sun-goddess but rather that such a goddess was a very strong influence on her earliest Hellenic mentions by Hesiod.

Thanks for the input, Eastling.

In the abstract the main idea is . . .
Quote
I provide here a new explanation of Hesiod's prayer, connecting it to Hecate's origin as an Anatolian sun-goddess of the underworld who mediated interactions between the upper and lower worlds, and I use this insight to explain the goddess's later easy syncretism with a series of other goddesses.

I'll try to get the full article, too.  Until then - it sounds to me like she is saying:
(1) A goddess originating in Anatolia was adopted into the Greek pantheon, (or was known to the Greeks) under the Greek name Hekate. (As you may know, one possible meaning of the name may stem from an obscure epithet of Apollo, "Hekatos" - meaning "the far reaching one" / "the far darter.")  

(2) It was Hekate's nature as an "Anatolian sun-goddess of the underworld" that helps explain some of the later syncretism with other Greek dieties.

Quote from: Eastling;201754
It seems very plausible to me, given her association with torch-bearing (Dionysos in his role as Iacchus is a torchbearer and he was definitely a "night-time sun" god who descended to the underworld), but of course, as the abstract points out, it wouldn't explain all her characteristics, which are the result of millennia of syncretism and development.

Interesting. I wasn't aware of this aspect of Dionysus.  I know other dieties are associated with the torch symbol (eg, Demeter), but I wonder how common the two-torches imagery is. According to theoi.com "Demeter carried a pair of flaming torches in her search for Persephone. She was often depicted in art holding one or two torches as her attribute."  Perhaps the two-torches imagery comes from association with Demeter. (There are other explanations I've read, and the idea of two torches on either side of a doorway or gate seems plausible for Hekate as a liminal diety.)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 07:33:18 pm by SunflowerP »
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Re: Theory of Hekate as Originally a Sun Goddess
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2017, 07:52:46 pm »
Quote from: Khep;201766


 
A Reminder:
Hi, Khep,

Just a quick note, on what one might call 'advanced fancy quoting techniques': Having the further excerpt from the abstract in a quote box in between the two quotes from Eastling's post made for a bit of, 'wait, what's being quoted here?' confusion. I've fixed it by copying the trackback quote code (when you're posting or editing, you see that as '={username};{post number}' following the word 'quote') and pasting it into the opening quote code of your second quote from East.

For future reference, you can do it that way, or another possible method is, instead of putting the off-site quote (in this case, from the abstract) into a quote box, you can put it between quotation marks and/or indent it (the indent button looks like , above the box in which you type your reply).

This isn't a formal warning, just a reminder.  No  reply is necessary, but if you have questions or need clarification,  please feel free to contact a member of staff privately.

Thanks!
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Re: Theory of Hekate as Originally a Sun Goddess
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2017, 08:03:27 pm »
Quote from: Khep;201766
Interesting. I wasn't aware of this aspect of Dionysus.  I know other dieties are associated with the torch symbol (eg, Demeter), but I wonder how common the two-torches imagery is. According to theoi.com "Demeter carried a pair of flaming torches in her search for Persephone. She was often depicted in art holding one or two torches as her attribute."  Perhaps the two-torches imagery comes from association with Demeter. (There are other explanations I've read, and the idea of two torches on either side of a doorway or gate seems plausible for Hekate as a liminal diety.)


I would say it's likely that the torch imagery is key to the Eleusinian Mysteries in general and may have been variously transferred among different deities involved in it, rather than that it comes from just one of them.

Dionysos has the epithet of Nyktelios, meaning "the night-sun." (I get this from Theoi.com as well, but I've seen it mentioned elsewhere.) Of course, his own Mysteries have a lot to do with his dismemberment and descent through dark waters to the underworld and then back up again. (There's a particular lake, Lerna, he was symbolically thrown into in Hellenic times, but I tend to take the perspective that this derives from earlier associations in his cult of the sea with the underworld or at least the passage into it.)
 
Vikki Bramshaw's Dionysos: Exciter to Frenzy heavily associates Dionysos with Hekate, and while I don't buy into all of it, I could see how this theory about Hekate's origins would lend itself to that interpretation.
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Re: Theory of Hekate as Originally a Sun Goddess
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2017, 01:14:43 pm »
Interesting. Athena has also been theorised to have been inspired by per-Mycenaean sun goddesses.

Quote from: Khep;201717
Also . . . is anyone familiar with the idea of "underworld sun-goddesses"?

 
There was a source that one greek island saw the sun as the ruler of the underworld, but I'm unable to find it sadly

Khep

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Re: Theory of Hekate as Originally a Sun Goddess
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2017, 11:23:26 pm »
Quote from: Pteranotropi;201991
Interesting. Athena has also been theorised to have been inspired by per-Mycenaean sun goddesses.

There was a source that one greek island saw the sun as the ruler of the underworld, but I'm unable to find it sadly


I'm starting to find that trying to "understand" particular dieties or myths feels like wandering a labyrinth.  There is even more overlap and cross-identification than I thought.  Eastling's blog offers some interesting parallels between Dionysus & Ariadne and Hades & Persephone, such as here:

The Eleusinian Connection

The idea of the labyrinth also pops up in how some people interpret the "Hekate's Wheel" symbol -- as both labyrinth-ine and snake-like.  (I'm unsure about how clear the historical connection to Hekate is, but I believe ( . . . ?) I've read somewhere that the symbol itself was fairly common in Hellenic Greece.)
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Re: Theory of Hekate as Originally a Sun Goddess
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2017, 12:39:21 am »
Quote from: Khep;202012
... the "Hekate's Wheel" symbol....  (I'm unsure about how clear the historical connection to Hekate is, but I believe ( . . . ?) I've read somewhere that the symbol itself was fairly common in Hellenic Greece.)

 
Pretty tenuous, according to The Hekate FAQ (which was compiled several years ago by a Cauldronite, Eihdos) - if you scroll down, you'll find a section entitled 'What is Hekate's wheel?'

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Khep

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Re: Theory of Hekate as Originally a Sun Goddess
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2017, 02:39:46 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;202016
Pretty tenuous, according to The Hekate FAQ (which was compiled several years ago by a Cauldronite, Eihdos) - if you scroll down, you'll find a section entitled 'What is Hekate's wheel?'

Sunflower


Thanks, Sunflower.

The FAQ doesn't mention the Chaldean Oracles in that section. Here's a TC thread that does. It includes some variations in translation of the line "Labour thou around the Strophalos of Hecate."

Thread: "Hecate's Wheel symbol - Jade Sol Luna"
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