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Author Topic: House is 'off'  (Read 6860 times)

Vixen

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House is 'off'
« on: January 12, 2017, 10:28:12 am »
I've posted this in the beginners-thread cause I am not familiar with the use of magic. Admins, please move if you find it fits better somewhere else.

I have moved into my new home last march. Its an old farmhouse dating from somewhere between 1775 and 1842. This house is my dream house, its located in a very rural area with lots of land and a beautiful garden with possibilities to keep my livestock, have a herb and vegetable garden and be as self-reliant as  can be.

Since I moved in I've had nothing but bad luck. When demolishing a barn we found the previous owner dumped asbestos in the dungpits leaving us with a bill about three times my yearly wages to remove it, legal insurance refuses to file a lawsuit so I'm having to fight them for a second opinion, I broke a finger, got bitten during a dogfight, had surgery on my hand after the wound got infected, had to rehome one of my dogs cause things escalated real quick, got unintentionally pregnant and went through hell having an abortion (please respect my choices even though you don't agree), fell off my horse three times, got trodden on and broke a bone in my foot, my husband of 13 years left me, had to sell one of my horses, I'm having trouble keeping afloat financially and timewise and I am struggling to keep my job (not to mention my sanity).
All that in a ten month timespan. :(

I am beginning to think this house doesn't like me. :ashamed:
What can I do to improve the situation?

I have zero experience with magic. I have tried cleansing, burning sage in every corner of every room in the house while repeating something along the lines of "Harm and evil please leave this place, you do not belong here. Go to the light, go to the light, go to the light" (took advice from a friend who is a bit more witchy witch than I am).
I have also started putting out milk and bread for the house spirits on a regular basis.
And there is a crucifix from the previous owner over the backdoor which I didn't remove (not sure if its helpful or harming).
But I don't feel its helping at all.
You're only given a little spark of madness, you mustn't lose it.

ehbowen

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Re: House is 'off'
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2017, 07:56:33 am »
Quote from: Vixen;201353
I've posted this in the beginners-thread cause I am not familiar with the use of magic. Admins, please move if you find it fits better somewhere else.

I have moved into my new home last march. Its an old farmhouse dating from somewhere between 1775 and 1842. This house is my dream house, its located in a very rural area with lots of land and a beautiful garden with possibilities to keep my livestock, have a herb and vegetable garden and be as self-reliant as  can be.

Since I moved in I've had nothing but bad luck. When demolishing a barn we found the previous owner dumped asbestos in the dungpits leaving us with a bill about three times my yearly wages to remove it, legal insurance refuses to file a lawsuit so I'm having to fight them for a second opinion, I broke a finger, got bitten during a dogfight, had surgery on my hand after the wound got infected, had to rehome one of my dogs cause things escalated real quick, got unintentionally pregnant and went through hell having an abortion (please respect my choices even though you don't agree), fell off my horse three times, got trodden on and broke a bone in my foot, my husband of 13 years left me, had to sell one of my horses, I'm having trouble keeping afloat financially and timewise and I am struggling to keep my job (not to mention my sanity).
All that in a ten month timespan. :(

I am beginning to think this house doesn't like me. :ashamed:
What can I do to improve the situation?

I have zero experience with magic. I have tried cleansing, burning sage in every corner of every room in the house while repeating something along the lines of "Harm and evil please leave this place, you do not belong here. Go to the light, go to the light, go to the light" (took advice from a friend who is a bit more witchy witch than I am).
I have also started putting out milk and bread for the house spirits on a regular basis.
And there is a crucifix from the previous owner over the backdoor which I didn't remove (not sure if its helpful or harming).
But I don't feel its helping at all.

 Well, if you’re a beginner, then that makes me…?

Seriously, though, I asked Vixen via PM if it was OK for me to participate in this thread and she said that it was. While I don’t feel as “over-the-top” about this situation as I have elsewhere, that’s fine, too. It means I can make the occasional mistake and keep working through it to see what I/we may have done wrong.

First, let me say how thrilled I am that you have found your dream home. I really feel that my God ultimately wants it to be a blessing to you and yours. Yet, with all the particulars that you mention from your situation, it does seem that there is something deeper and probably spiritual going on. Let me put down what I see and let me know if I am missing anything:
  • The asbestos. It appears that the removal itself is in the past, but that you are still faced with the present burden and challenge of paying the bill.
  • Frustrations while seeking legal recourse against the previous owner for the cost of the asbestos removal.
  • Present financial troubles, which may be directly related to the above two issues, as well as your current employment situation.
  • Physical healing. The two broken bones and infection/surgery in the hand. Is this satisfactorily completed, or is there a current issue in this area that we need to pray through?
  • Animals (horse/dog)...it hurts whenever we have to let one of our furry friends go. Dogs will be dogs (I have two), but things don’t need to go south again.
  • Your marriage. To your knowledge, is reconciliation possible at this point, or have choices been made (by you or him) which make this unlikely or even impossible? Regardless, you need direction from now forward.
  • The abortion. While I personally feel that children are always intended to be a blessing, the choice has been made. You need closure and healing.
  • “Bad Luck.” It appears that you have had more than your share.


From this list, the two which strike me as needing to be addressed right now are the “bad luck” and the employment situation. Regarding the former: Trials and tribulations are a part of normal human existence as well as a legitimate way for God and others to judge our character, so it would probably not be wise or effective for me to pray that they be lifted completely. However, I do pray that you would be able to catch a break for six months or so.

As far as the job, I would like to know more about you and your situation. First, would you prefer to be more secure/stable in your current position or would you like to find a completely new situation? (Both/either is a legitimate response as well.) If the former, what kind of work do you presently do? Is your current insecurity due to personal challenges (things unintentionally going wrong, hostile supervisor, etc.) or due to larger situations affecting your employer (industry downturn/consolidation, repeated layoffs/”musical chairs”)? If you prefer an entirely new position, what kind of work would you like to do and what do your talents suit you for? How far are you prepared to commute? Would you commute farther for a larger salary or would you prefer to work closer to home for a more modest rate of pay?

Finally, let me say that if anyone else wants to chime in with a more “magical” solution, by all means go right ahead. I may be going out on a limb here, but I tend to think that if my team is going to win out completely, then at some point we need to learn to work and play well with others. I actually think this has been going on in the shadows for quite some time, but I think this is an appropriate time to do so up front. Just sayin’.
--------Eric H. Bowen
Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!
Computers are like air conditioning. They become useless when you open Windows—Linus Torvalds.

ehbowen

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Re: House is 'off'
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2017, 10:28:25 am »
Quote from: ehbowen;201381
It means I can make the occasional mistake and keep working through it to see what I/we may have done wrong.

 
And not necessarily "wrong". Just that there may be something better waiting down the road that I/we never suspected now. On my way in to work this morning the following song came on Pandora. It reminds me specifically about my 9th grade lab partner. No, it never even progressed to the dating stage, but I was definitely smitten with that girl.

So, if anyone thinks that I think that I have found "the formula," let me say that I completely agree with the sentiments expressed below:

[video]https://youtu.be/9GuA5PZx3K4[/video]
--------Eric H. Bowen
Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!
Computers are like air conditioning. They become useless when you open Windows—Linus Torvalds.

Jenett

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Re: House is 'off'
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2017, 06:04:33 pm »
Quote from: Vixen;201353

I am beginning to think this house doesn't like me. :ashamed:
What can I do to improve the situation?


Usually when we move, the house isn't the *only* thing we change. So while looking at the house is a good move, I think at this stage, I'd also be looking at other things that changed around the same time.

Were there any changes at work, or in who you work with, or what kind of (specific) work you were doing?

Any disruptions in your personal life (unresolved issues with people, especially?) other than your relationship with your husband? If there are, do what you can to find a stable resolution to them and take the high road when you can: you don't need to agree to what they want, or give in, so much as deal with them cleanly and maturely.

Have you done cleansing and protective work on yourself? Much more extensive notes on my website on energetic self-care, protection practices, and removing old energetic ties.

Some other stuff to consider if you haven't done it already;
- Learning more about the history of the house and its previous inhabitants. Sometimes you can trace these through local records, and there's usually some sort of resource, though I'm not sure what the specifics would be where you are. Is there something like a local historical society that covers the area?  Your local library could point you in the right direction if you're not sure, it's a really common kind of question.

- Physical cleaning is good, and if you haven't already tried this, salt water washes are a good way to psychically cleanse as well as physically.

- Do things in the house that are non-threatening but happy: bake and cook good food, put on happy music (especially from older eras in the house's history if you have and like that)

- Taking care of the house - fixing small things that don't work right, pausing to talk and listen to the house and property might be helpful. For example, have you tried walking around the edges of the property regularly, or your yard, or each room in the house, saying a thing you appreciate about the house, or noticing and fixing the little stuff (burnt out light bulbs, doors that stick, stuff that's out of place.)

It sounds sort of silly, but if you feel there's an energy in a place (and a lot of people feel that) then explaining things like "That was a lovely old barn, but we had to tear it down before it hurt someone, and then we found that horrible stuff under it. But when we can get that taken care of, we'll do [lovely appropriate thing]." You may find that by talking out loud about it, you'll realise specific things that you should focus on first, or seem to be more core to the issues you're having.

- Do you have any experience with (or comfort trying?) divination? This might be a way to figure out if there's a specific area that is a particular need to resolve. I'd suggest a pendulum and asking "Is there a problem in X room that needs to be fixed?" and workingn through all the rooms in the house, and then parts of the property and seeing what you get, and asking more specific questions as appropriate.  ("Is it something that needs to be fixed?" "Is it something where an offering would help?" etc.)

To use a pendulum (you can make one with string and a rock or horse chestnut, or use a necklace pendant or a ring or something else of that kind - anything that has some weight and will hang straight and move reasonably evenly.)

Ask the pendulum "Show me yes" and observe the movement, then "Show me no.", then "Show me maybe" and then "Show me something that can't be answered." (usually you'll get an up and down motion and a side to side motion for the yes/no pair, though which one is which may vary, and some sort of circular thing for maybe and no movement or very random movement for can't answer, but there are other options.

(I would not go to an outside reader for this unless it's someone you already know and trust: your situation is one that a dishonest reader can easily manipulate.)

You might get more info this way, or you might shake some new ideas loose in your head. Either would give you some ideas of where to focus first.
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Vixen

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Re: House is 'off'
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2017, 04:05:21 am »
Quote from: ehbowen;201381
Well, if you’re a beginner, then that makes me…?

Seriously, though, I asked Vixen via PM if it was OK for me to participate in this thread and she said that it was. While I don’t feel as “over-the-top” about this situation as I have elsewhere, that’s fine, too. It means I can make the occasional mistake and keep working through it to see what I/we may have done wrong.

First, let me say how thrilled I am that you have found your dream home. I really feel that my God ultimately wants it to be a blessing to you and yours. Yet, with all the particulars that you mention from your situation, it does seem that there is something deeper and probably spiritual going on.

 
Eric, as I said in pm, I am happy with all the help. I have not turned my back to the Christian God, I merely looked to another path that quite possibly suits me better.

Quote from: ehbowen;201381

Let me put down what I see and let me know if I am missing anything:
  • The asbestos. It appears that the removal itself is in the past, but that you are still faced with the present burden and challenge of paying the bill.
  • Frustrations while seeking legal recourse against the previous owner for the cost of the asbestos removal.
  • Present financial troubles, which may be directly related to the above two issues, as well as your current employment situation.
  • Physical healing. The two broken bones and infection/surgery in the hand. Is this satisfactorily completed, or is there a current issue in this area that we need to pray through?
  • Animals (horse/dog)...it hurts whenever we have to let one of our furry friends go. Dogs will be dogs (I have two), but things don’t need to go south again.
  • Your marriage. To your knowledge, is reconciliation possible at this point, or have choices been made (by you or him) which make this unlikely or even impossible? Regardless, you need direction from now forward.
  • The abortion. While I personally feel that children are always intended to be a blessing, the choice has been made. You need closure and healing.
  • “Bad Luck.” It appears that you have had more than your share.




  • The asbestos had not been cleared yet. It sits as an open crater in my back yard, the dingpits open to the air. Its a permanent reminder everytime I go to the back of my property.
  • My current financial troubles are purely related to my divorce and having to take up most of the finances of a Household that was based on 1,5 income.
  • My physical issues have been resolved for now. I still have some tenderness and stiffness in my finger, but nothing that I cant live with or wont go away in time.
  • Reconcilliation in my marriage is no longer possible. He made his choice very clearly and even if he hadn't I would've.

 
Quote from: ehbowen;201381


From this list, the two which strike me as needing to be addressed right now are the “bad luck” and the employment situation. Regarding the former: Trials and tribulations are a part of normal human existence as well as a legitimate way for God and others to judge our character, so it would probably not be wise or effective for me to pray that they be lifted completely. However, I do pray that you would be able to catch a break for six months or so.


A six month break would be wonderful. Trials and tribulations are fine. Ive had my fair share and can deal with it. But at this point even my coputer dying on me cause I forgot to plug it in can reduce me to a sobbing mess. I am so high strung right now the slightest thing going wrong breaks me. that is not helping.

Quote from: ehbowen;201381


As far as the job, I would like to know more about you and your situation. First, would you prefer to be more secure/stable in your current position or would you like to find a completely new situation? (Both/either is a legitimate response as well.) If the former, what kind of work do you presently do? Is your current insecurity due to personal challenges (things unintentionally going wrong, hostile supervisor, etc.) or due to larger situations affecting your employer (industry downturn/consolidation, repeated layoffs/”musical chairs”)? If you prefer an entirely new position, what kind of work would you like to do and what do your talents suit you for? How far are you prepared to commute? Would you commute farther for a larger salary or would you prefer to work closer to home for a more modest rate of pay?

I would like to do better in my current job. I like my job. I work at the city archives where I manage a team of 5 people. I make sure the visitors are taken care of and the documents are properly stored and conserved. I also procure new additions to the collection and do research and write articles for several papers and magazines.
My team has been struggling with illnesses and we were very much understaffed to begin with. the boss just wont hire more people, doesnt see the nessecity. But some of my other colleagues are starting to buckle under the strain, as am I. I also have the strain of my home situation burdening me and I find myself forgetful, unabel to concentrate, and failing to manage my time properly. I lack selfdiscipline but manage to work around that most of the time, but my current situation has brought it to become a problem.
 
Quote from: ehbowen;201381

I actually think this has been going on in the shadows for quite some time, but I think this is an appropriate time to do so up front. Just sayin’.


Not sure what you mean by this but I appreciate your help. I am of the persuasion that if it wont help it wont hurt. I also would like to note that I dont see it as teams going up against eachother. I think all the gods, yours and mine, are better off working together. Or at least not actively against eachother.
You're only given a little spark of madness, you mustn't lose it.

Vixen

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Re: House is 'off'
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2017, 04:20:52 am »
Quote from: Jenett;201395
Usually when we move, the house isn't the *only* thing we change. So while looking at the house is a good move, I think at this stage, I'd also be looking at other things that changed around the same time.

Were there any changes at work, or in who you work with, or what kind of (specific) work you were doing?

Yes, I changed jobs at just about the same time.
 
Quote from: Jenett;201395


Any disruptions in your personal life (unresolved issues with people, especially?) other than your relationship with your husband? If there are, do what you can to find a stable resolution to them and take the high road when you can: you don't need to agree to what they want, or give in, so much as deal with them cleanly and maturely.


I had a very negative relationship with my former boss. I went through a burn out last year and she reacted very derogatory and sometimes even agressively to that (threatening to fire me if I had one more migraine attack). I still see her in the hallways (I switched departments) and I still see my old colleagues frequently. There is still a lot of resentment and anger towards her. I avoid her mostly as I dont have any dealings with her in my daily profesional life.
 
Quote from: Jenett;201395


Have you done cleansing and protective work on yourself? Much more extensive notes on my website on energetic self-care, protection practices, and removing old energetic ties.

No I have not. Never thought of that. I'll look into it Thank you.
 
Quote from: Jenett;201395


Some other stuff to consider if you haven't done it already;
- Learning more about the history of the house and its previous inhabitants. Sometimes you can trace these through local records, and there's usually some sort of resource, though I'm not sure what the specifics would be where you are. Is there something like a local historical society that covers the area?  Your local library could point you in the right direction if you're not sure, it's a really common kind of question.

I actually work at the city archives and know quite a bit about our local history. Helping people in this kind of reseach is my job. ;) I really appreciate you bringing this up. A lot of people forget the past so easily.
 
 
Quote from: Jenett;201395


- Taking care of the house - fixing small things that don't work right, pausing to talk and listen to the house and property might be helpful. For example, have you tried walking around the edges of the property regularly, or your yard, or each room in the house, saying a thing you appreciate about the house, or noticing and fixing the little stuff (burnt out light bulbs, doors that stick, stuff that's out of place.)

It sounds sort of silly, but if you feel there's an energy in a place (and a lot of people feel that) then explaining things like "That was a lovely old barn, but we had to tear it down before it hurt someone, and then we found that horrible stuff under it. But when we can get that taken care of, we'll do [lovely appropriate thing]." You may find that by talking out loud about it, you'll realise specific things that you should focus on first, or seem to be more core to the issues you're having.

Ive never thought of actually talking to the house about its problems. I often thank it for all the blessings its given me. I frequently place a hand on its stones and just close my eyes feeling the energy. I enjoy looking for that connection. I love walking around the perimiters of the yard and the house. Looking for the little things that are beautiful to me.
I wll try to get into contact with the house some more with your advice. Thank you.
 
Quote from: Jenett;201395


- Do you have any experience with (or comfort trying?) divination? This might be a way to figure out if there's a specific area that is a particular need to resolve. I'd suggest a pendulum and asking "Is there a problem in X room that needs to be fixed?" and workingn through all the rooms in the house, and then parts of the property and seeing what you get, and asking more specific questions as appropriate.  ("Is it something that needs to be fixed?" "Is it something where an offering would help?" etc.)

To use a pendulum (you can make one with string and a rock or horse chestnut, or use a necklace pendant or a ring or something else of that kind - anything that has some weight and will hang straight and move reasonably evenly.)

Ask the pendulum "Show me yes" and observe the movement, then "Show me no.", then "Show me maybe" and then "Show me something that can't be answered." (usually you'll get an up and down motion and a side to side motion for the yes/no pair, though which one is which may vary, and some sort of circular thing for maybe and no movement or very random movement for can't answer, but there are other options.

(I would not go to an outside reader for this unless it's someone you already know and trust: your situation is one that a dishonest reader can easily manipulate.)

You might get more info this way, or you might shake some new ideas loose in your head. Either would give you some ideas of where to focus first.

 
Ive never tried using a pendulum. Do you think I can just start doing that with no negative side effects? I'm a bit scared of using those techniques. I have a tarot deck that I am learning to use and thats a bit scary too. Im always afraid I misinterpret things. But it does tie in nicely with the previous quote.
Would you advice me using something thats personal to me (like my amethis necklace) or do you suggest using something specific to the house (like a pebble from the driveway or a wallnut from its trees) ?
You're only given a little spark of madness, you mustn't lose it.

Jenett

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Re: House is 'off'
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2017, 09:40:45 am »
Quote from: Vixen;201428

I had a very negative relationship with my former boss. I went through a burn out last year and she reacted very derogatory and sometimes even agressively to that (threatening to fire me if I had one more migraine attack). I still see her in the hallways (I switched departments) and I still see my old colleagues frequently. There is still a lot of resentment and anger towards her. I avoid her mostly as I dont have any dealings with her in my daily profesional life.


That's definitely an area I'd look at - not "You should forgive her and be her friend" but "You should look at finding a way to come to a neutral space with her" - usually this is some combination of working at the old energetic ties and disconnecting and then deliberate shielding and cleansing can help. That kind of lingering resentment can tangle a lot of other things in your life. Also, it just plain takes up emotional energy you could be using for other things.

(If you have access to a therapist, even briefly, this is a kind of thing they can often help with pretty quickly: saying "I still have a lot of resentment toward a former boss, and I still work in the same building, and I'd like to let that go." would be a way to phrase that)
 
Some people find that writing a letter pouring out all the things you wish you could say and can't to their face (all the hurt, all the anger, all the complicated feelings) and then burning it or tearing it into tiny pieces and scattering it, or otherwise destroying it can really help. If you do something like that, I suggest doing something afterwards to reaffirm the things you like about your current job, new boss, etc.
 
Quote
I actually work at the city archives and know quite a bit about our local history. Helping people in this kind of reseach is my job. ;) I really appreciate you bringing this up. A lot of people forget the past so easily.


Yay!

If you haven't already looked thoroughly at the history of your property, that's a thing to do. In particular, I'd be curious about any patterns you see when the property was doing well, and also if there are times it wasn't. Who was living there then? (Was it a family? Someone on their own? Something else?) What were they doing?

Quote
Ive never tried using a pendulum. Do you think I can just start doing that with no negative side effects? I'm a bit scared of using those techniques. I have a tarot deck that I am learning to use and thats a bit scary too. Im always afraid I misinterpret things. But it does tie in nicely with the previous quote.


One of the nice things about a pendulum is that it's pretty unambiguous: you may not get an answer, but if you do get an answer, it's pretty clear what it is. (That's why the routine of "Show me yes/no/maybe/can't answer" is important.)

It's often the first divination tool groups and teachers teach for a reason, because it's both pretty straightforward and doesn't require interpretation, and because it helps you learn how to ask good questions for divination, too.

You should get in the habit of making sure you're your best self of the moment when you do divination. (Maybe wash your hands, take a few deep breaths, center and ground if those are things you're comfortable with.) The things that indicate to your body and brain that you are approaching this seriously. Think about your questions - maybe write a list in advance, though you can add clarifying questions as you go. In this case, it might be good to have a list just so you can be sure you aren't forgetting some part of the house or property.

I'd probably go through all the locations first, noting any where there's an indicated problem or confusion, and then go back and ask more questions about what's going on, just because you might find that an issue affects several connected spaces or something.

Quote

Would you advice me using something thats personal to me (like my amethis necklace) or do you suggest using something specific to the house (like a pebble from the driveway or a wallnut from its trees) ?

 
I think either would be fine, but using something specific to the house might be a more direct choice of the two. A walnut or pebble are great sizes.
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ehbowen

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Asbestos; was Re: House is 'off'
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2017, 11:37:10 pm »
Quote from: Vixen;201427
A six month break would be wonderful. Trials and tribulations are fine. Ive had my fair share and can deal with it. But at this point even my coputer dying on me cause I forgot to plug it in can reduce me to a sobbing mess. I am so high strung right now the slightest thing going wrong breaks me. that is not helping.

Yeah, that’s the bit that scares me the most, because any little thing...I not only make myself look foolish (that’s nothing new!), but it reflects poorly on my God as well. But it seems to be what you need the most at this immediate point in time, and whether I fall on my face or not...I think it’s right to say it.

About the asbestos: This looks like it will be the thorniest situation to work through, for several reasons. I’m going to be chasing a few rabbits here, but please don’t lose sight of one point I firmly believe based upon what you have shared: You have been wronged, and you deserve redress.

But what kind of redress and at what point? My God is very big on justice, but he wants that justice to reach all the way back to the root. There are multiple layers of offenses here. Your home’s previous owner who concealed the asbestos is the most immediate and obvious one...but what about the man who put that asbestos in there in the first place? What about those who manufactured and sold it? And the chain goes back much farther than that, I believe, all the way to the Fall of Man. I honestly think that asbestos was intended to be a blessing to man, not a curse...and that its present status as a lethal hazard is a direct result of the curse and the original temptation...which traces directly back to Satan himself.

Most of the people in that chain, I presume, are now long dead and well past the reach of any earthly court. That last root element in the chain (Satan) is the source of potentially the greatest recovery, but also will be the last to manifest; I tend to think that the time scale before Satan is finally brought to book and held responsible for all of his actions dwarfs human comprehension.

Where I am going with this is that there are many parties who share fault in this situation, and that to just dump everything on the closest and most convenient (the previous owner) is in and of itself unjust. If you were to succeed in using the courts to place the full burden on him, you would become the bad guy and any long-term divine recovery you might now be in a position to receive would go to him instead. Even more so in the (admittedly very slight) off chance that he was not the responsible party; that the asbestos was removed and concealed by another previous owner 20 years or so in the past (and now dead). So it may be a blessing in disguise that you have been frustrated in seeking legal redress up to this point.

There are many, many bad situations such as this one which are not due to any poor choice or action on the part of the one upon whom they fall. What I think makes my God stand up and applaud is when someone says, “This may not be my fault, but it is my problem,” and takes the responsibility of bringing closure to the situation even though it entails a significant personal cost.

What your previous owner should have done, upon discovering the asbestos, was to dispose of it properly and bear the cost for doing so. If he had, I feel certain that there would have been some kind of divine compensation for doing the right thing. He might have received a larger price when the property was sold, he might have come into extra income, he might have received an unexpected inheritance...difficult to exhaust all of the possibilities. Instead, he chose to hide it and dump it (pardon!) on you.

That he did so shows beyond any reasonable doubt that he knew his actions were wrong, yet I can still see a mitigating factor or two. Asbestos used to be No Big Deal...the “magic mineral” and other PR platitudes from the 1950s, even when the evidence was starting to come in that it was potentially dangerous. Nowadays, it is (pardon the use of a US term) a Federal Case, with regulations, reporting, licensed handlers and landfills...all of which jack the price up to beyond anything a normal citizen could reasonably afford (which you are now more than aware of). This is in and of itself yet another injustice...it puts me in mind of Jesus’s words to the Pharisees in Matthew 23:1-4. Burdens that they will not lift a finger to help with, indeed.

Now, it may be all well and good to talk about assuming responsibility in the theoretical case, but this is not theoretical: You need help NOW. And I do believe that my God wants to help you. The question is, what kind of form should this help take?

I understand that at the present time you are stretched to the breaking point. But I at least believe that the problem will not get any bigger than it presently is. So any movement in this area will help to make things more manageable. Here are some areas that I see that relief might come from:
  • The prospective bill could come down. You might find another qualified waste handler who is prepared to remove the asbestos at a somewhat more reasonable price.
  • You might find additional income, either your own or from a suitable and supportive partner who comes into your life. With that income, you might qualify for a loan to finance the removal cost.
  • You might be able to make at least a partial recovery from the previous owner. I would recommend that you keep knocking on the door of legal action. Don’t try to break it down, but keep knocking. If along the way the previous owner offers a settlement, and that settlement is even close to reasonable, I would suggest that you take it.
  • Additional sources of support or legal recovery might open up, such as a “class action” suit (Is that a common practice in the Netherlands? Frequent here.) or a government program to manage hazardous waste sites similar to the US “Superfund”.
Again, I don’t know the numbers or your particular situation. I don’t think that I need to know them. But I do pray that one or (preferably) a combination of these factors comes into play in your situation in a reasonable time frame. Say, six months, although I hope and believe that it will be less. My suggestion to you now is that you consider these possibilities and determine for yourself what kind of a combination would constitute an answered prayer. Just tossing out some US numbers: If you were looking at a total bill of $150,000 now, would you be able to handle it if you were able to generate $10,000 additional in net take-home pay every year? How about if you were to find disposal for $120,000, you got a settlement offer of $40,000 from the previous owner, and you were able to generate $6000 additional net income a year? That kind of thought exercise.

Again, I don’t need to know your particular numbers, but I think that the more of the present burden you are willing to assume...with the understanding that you need immediate financial help in order to assume it...the more effective that prayers for this situation will be.

On a more personal note, since you state that present financial issues stem from losing an income: Would you prefer that your own present income rise to meet your needs, or would you prefer to find a mate who will be able and willing to provide for and support you on a long-term basis?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 11:43:07 pm by ehbowen »
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Re: Asbestos; was Re: House is 'off'
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2017, 03:51:03 am »
Quote from: ehbowen;201469

Yeah, that’s the bit that scares me the most, because any little thing...I not only make myself look foolish (that’s nothing new!), but it reflects poorly on my God as well. But it seems to be what you need the most at this immediate point in time, and whether I fall on my face or not...I think it’s right to say it.


You know what. I think it's fun you're using this case as a means to prove you're on the winning team and I'm not offended by that in the least. But I believe somewhere under all that competitiveness there's also the underlying need of trying to help another human being. And that's what matters. Even if your god doesn't pull through, you tried. And that's what matters to me.

Quote from: ehbowen;201469

But what kind of redress and at what point? My God is very big on justice, but he wants that justice to reach all the way back to the root. There are multiple layers of offenses here. Your home’s previous owner who concealed the asbestos is the most immediate and obvious one...but what about the man who put that asbestos in there in the first place? What about those who manufactured and sold it? And the chain goes back much farther than that, I believe, all the way to the Fall of Man. I honestly think that asbestos was intended to be a blessing to man, not a curse...and that its present status as a lethal hazard is a direct result of the curse and the original temptation...which traces directly back to Satan himself.


I'm sorry, this made me giggle. It's just one of those set preconceptions. Everything is Satan's fault and everything is a blessing in disguise. So just suck it up, good things are coming. To me it's learned helplessness in religious form. It sometimes even feels like a cruel experiment where you put more and more pain on a victim for promising a greater and greater reward that may or may not even come. Even though the victim will be participating somewhat willingly it is ethically questionable. But that's an entirely different discussion.
 
Quote from: ehbowen;201469

Where I am going with this is that there are many parties who share fault in this situation, and that to just dump everything on the closest and most convenient (the previous owner) is in and of itself unjust. If you were to succeed in using the courts to place the full burden on him, you would become the bad guy and any long-term divine recovery you might now be in a position to receive would go to him instead. Even more so in the (admittedly very slight) off chance that he was not the responsible party; that the asbestos was removed and concealed by another previous owner 20 years or so in the past (and now dead). So it may be a blessing in disguise that you have been frustrated in seeking legal redress up to this point..

 
Wow... So in seeking justice I become the bad guy? My 'reward' for putting up with suffering would go to them? Wouldn't God go like: dude, you had that coming?
So if I steal an apple, and that persons decides to sue me for stealing that apple and wins, forcing me to pay for the apple that I should've paid for to begin with, God will reward me for having to suffer through that? That just doesn't make sense. Where's the justice in that?
Yes, sorry, that probably came out a bit condescending.

Anyway. To clear the situation a bit more. The previous owner (a husband and wife) built the barn during a time that asbestos was legal to use. They also remodelled the barn a decade later when they retired from farming, that's when they put the asbestos in the pits. At that time asbestos was still free to use but due to the growing knowledge of its health hazards was prohibited from manufacturing and selling. So they knew what they put in the ground even though it was still legal for them to do so.
A few years before the previous owner sold us the house her husband died of lungcancer (wonder where that came from...:whis::whis:). She claims to have no knowledge of the asbestos and refuses to settle or even acknowledge its there.


Quote from: ehbowen;201469

There are many, many bad situations such as this one which are not due to any poor choice or action on the part of the one upon whom they fall. What I think makes my God stand up and applaud is when someone says, “This may not be my fault, but it is my problem,” and takes the responsibility of bringing closure to the situation even though it entails a significant personal cost.


To be honest, I do take that stand. It is my problem and I refuse to pass it on to another person. I could've just tipped the walls of the pits up over it and covered it with dirt and it'd be not my problem anymore until I decide to sell the place. (yes, that's a legal albeit frowned upon solution) But that means I'm burying health hazardous material in the ground of the home I wish to live in. Apart from the fact that I'd run into the problem again upon selling it, my gods, my housespirits, my land and my own spirit would balk at that. Being pagan to me is taking care of the land and living wíth the land, not ón the land. Polluting the land is kinda detrimental to that.
 
Quote from: ehbowen;201469

Now, it may be all well and good to talk about assuming responsibility in the theoretical case, but this is not theoretical: You need help NOW. And I do believe that my God wants to help you. The question is, what kind of form should this help take?



Ideally? I would prefer to win the lottery. Not a huge amount, just enough to settle this sh*t and move on. I'm tired of fighting. I just want it settled.
 
Quote from: ehbowen;201469


On a more personal note, since you state that present financial issues stem from losing an income: Would you prefer that your own present income rise to meet your needs, or would you prefer to find a mate who will be able and willing to provide for and support you on a long-term basis?

 
I ehm... think I kinda found my mate. But its a bit complicated, you see, he's American. And yes, if he would be able to move here that would solve 90% of my problems. He's just not able to at this moment. But yes. If you could make that happen in 6 months I'll consider reverting back to Christianity. That would absolutely blow my mind.
You're only given a little spark of madness, you mustn't lose it.

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Re: House is 'off'
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2017, 03:55:18 am »
Quote from: Jenett;201431
That's definitely an area I'd look at - not "You should forgive her and be her friend" but "You should look at finding a way to come to a neutral space with her"

You're probably right. I tend to ignore those things until they go away.

Quote from: Jenett;201431

 One of the nice things about a pendulum is that it's pretty unambiguous: you may not get an answer, but if you do get an answer, it's pretty clear what it is. (That's why the routine of "Show me yes/no/maybe/can't answer" is important.)

...

I think either would be fine, but using something specific to the house might be a more direct choice of the two. A walnut or pebble are great sizes.


I remembered I have a bundle of old housekeys that was hung up on a nail at the back door. I found a really really old key in there that's absolutely beautiful! I put it on a chain and tried to get a Yes/No/Maybe/Can't Answer routine out of it, but it will only show me a Yes at this point. It'll just remain absolutely still when I ask it to give me a No. But I'll work on it.
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Re: Asbestos; was Re: House is 'off'
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2017, 09:54:21 am »
Quote from: ehbowen;201469
You have been wronged, and you deserve redress.

But what kind of redress and at what point? My God is very big on justice, but he wants that justice to reach all the way back to the root. There are multiple layers of offenses here. Your home’s previous owner who concealed the asbestos is the most immediate and obvious one...but what about the man who put that asbestos in there in the first place? What about those who manufactured and sold it? And the chain goes back much farther than that, I believe, all the way to the Fall of Man. I honestly think that asbestos was intended to be a blessing to man, not a curse...and that its present status as a lethal hazard is a direct result of the curse and the original temptation...which traces directly back to Satan himself.

Most of the people in that chain, I presume, are now long dead and well past the reach of any earthly court. That last root element in the chain (Satan) is the source of potentially the greatest recovery, but also will be the last to manifest; I tend to think that the time scale before Satan is finally brought to book and held responsible for all of his actions dwarfs human comprehension.

Where I am going with this is that there are many parties who share fault in this situation, and that to just dump everything on the closest and most convenient (the previous owner) is in and of itself unjust. If you were to succeed in using the courts to place the full burden on him, you would become the bad guy and any long-term divine recovery you might now be in a position to receive would go to him instead. Even more so in the (admittedly very slight) off chance that he was not the responsible party; that the asbestos was removed and concealed by another previous owner 20 years or so in the past (and now dead). So it may be a blessing in disguise that you have been frustrated in seeking legal redress up to this point.

 
This comes across as a very roundabout way of saying that it's not really the fault of the people who wronged Vixen that they wronged her, and that she better not make them redress the situation or your god will take away whatever he was going to do for her and, in an extremely petty move, hand it to the person who wronged her.

That's victim blaming. You might want to look to that. I quit worshipping your version of your god when others of his followers used that line of reasoning to convince rape victims not to go to the police. I don't think that creating more harm was your intent, but I think you need to understand that that line of reasoning has created great harm in the world and still is.


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Re: House is 'off'
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2017, 03:49:59 pm »
Quote from: Vixen;201353

I am beginning to think this house doesn't like me. :ashamed:
What can I do to improve the situation?

 
What none of the posts for far have really drilled home is that "property" does not just mean "house."

Your land is important.  Think of the property as a body, the asbestos as a wound, and the barn as a bandage.  The barn being torn down is like ripping off the bandage and scab over a wound that was festering.  One smelly, awful, disgusting mess.  

You have every right to pursue legal recourse from the insurance company, the person who sold you the home, etc.  I would do the same in a minute.  I'd almost be upset if you didn't at least try to hold someone responsible.  But only you can decide how far you're willing to take the fight.

However, if you truly claim this land as your own, then the wound is also yours to heal.  You might find that by healing the wound, things improve.  Walking the property to ensure that it is well-cared for, burying protective sachets at the property corners, making sure fences and boundaries are clearly defined and protected (visual with maintained fences or drawn-lines, with salt or something similar).  Boundaries are notoriously troublesome, and you only want to let in the things you WANT to enter, after all.  Unless you enjoy no boundaries; some folks do, but it can be chaotic.

I also second the option of divination.  Tarot, runes, pendulum.  They're fantastic for guidance, but it really should come from you or someone close to you or the land.

TL;DR, your entire property has an effect on your life, not just the home itself.  Love it.  Claim it.  Heal it. Protect it.  And see what manifests.

Finally, I really do wish you the best of luck!

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Re: House is 'off'
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2017, 10:54:08 am »
Quote from: Zin Aeon;201998


Your land is important.  Think of the property as a body, the asbestos as a wound, and the barn as a bandage.  The barn being torn down is like ripping off the bandage and scab over a wound that was festering.  One smelly, awful, disgusting mess.  

...

However, if you truly claim this land as your own, then the wound is also yours to heal.  You might find that by healing the wound, things improve.

 
I love this way of reasoning. That is very helpful, thank you!

So far I have not been succeeding in divination. The key pendulum I made is showing me nothing but a Yes answer, making it useless as a divinationtool. I have tried connecting with some of the trees on the property, but to no avail. I cant seem to feel them.
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Re: Asbestos; was Re: House is 'off'
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2017, 07:37:12 pm »
Quote from: Sorcha;201982
This comes across as a very roundabout way of saying that it's not really the fault of the people who wronged Vixen that they wronged her, and that she better not make them redress the situation or your god will take away whatever he was going to do for her and, in an extremely petty move, hand it to the person who wronged her.

That's victim blaming. You might want to look to that. I quit worshipping your version of your god when others of his followers used that line of reasoning to convince rape victims not to go to the police. I don't think that creating more harm was your intent, but I think you need to understand that that line of reasoning has created great harm in the world and still is.


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I disagree that I am 'blaming the victim.' What I am saying is that the situation is complex and that there are many parties who share blame with many of them being outside the reach of any purely human justice. Passing on the hot potato to the closest and most obvious target does not resolve the deeper issues.

Someone needs to step up and act to bring closure to the situation, even if it means a significant personal cost. I believe that this is what Jesus did for us, and that is why I believe that my God will sustain and support the one who assumes responsibility and makes the choice that The Pain Stops Here.
--------Eric H. Bowen
Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!
Computers are like air conditioning. They become useless when you open Windows—Linus Torvalds.

Sorcha

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Re: Asbestos; was Re: House is 'off'
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2017, 07:48:15 pm »
Quote from: ehbowen;202063
I disagree that I am 'blaming the victim.' What I am saying is that the situation is complex and that there are many parties who share blame with many of them being outside the reach of any purely human justice. Passing on the hot potato to the closest and most obvious target does not resolve the deeper issues.

Someone needs to step up and act to bring closure to the situation, even if it means a significant personal cost. I believe that this is what Jesus did for us, and that is why I believe that my God will sustain and support the one who assumes responsibility and makes the choice that The Pain Stops Here.

 
So in other words, victims need to act as sacrificial lambs on behalf of those who have wronged them?


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