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Author Topic: Lilith and Luciferianism  (Read 5080 times)

Jessiya

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Lilith and Luciferianism
« on: January 09, 2017, 12:10:51 pm »
So I have had this calling for quite a long time to follow Lilith as a deity, and I am kinda yelled at by other Wiccans basically stating that it is the "dark path" and cant find much information about it, and Leftist Wiccans aren't speaking much more than being vague.

But I was wondering if in following Lilith, and erecting an altar in her name and worshipping her as my main deity makes me a Luciferian.

I've heard people refer to Lilith as a Luciferian deity, which is why I ask.

I am just looking for what to look for as far as research goes. And what type of books and tools to look for.

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Re: Lilith and Luciferianism
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2017, 04:22:29 pm »
Quote from: Jessiya;201261
So I have had this calling for quite a long time to follow Lilith as a deity, and I am kinda yelled at by other Wiccans basically stating that it is the "dark path" and cant find much information about it, and Leftist Wiccans aren't speaking much more than being vague.

But I was wondering if in following Lilith, and erecting an altar in her name and worshipping her as my main deity makes me a Luciferian.

I've heard people refer to Lilith as a Luciferian deity, which is why I ask.

I am just looking for what to look for as far as research goes. And what type of books and tools to look for.

 
I've actually wondered this myself. While I don't believe I'll be working with her as my patron deity (right now I'm feeling more called to The Morrigan and Brigid), I've thought about working with her in more minor ways, so I'm curious to see what everyone says about this.

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Re: Lilith and Luciferianism
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2017, 06:51:22 pm »
Quote from: Jessiya;201261
So I have had this calling for quite a long time to follow Lilith as a deity, and I am kinda yelled at by other Wiccans basically stating that it is the "dark path" and cant find much information about it, and Leftist Wiccans aren't speaking much more than being vague.

But I was wondering if in following Lilith, and erecting an altar in her name and worshipping her as my main deity makes me a Luciferian.

I've heard people refer to Lilith as a Luciferian deity, which is why I ask.

I am just looking for what to look for as far as research goes. And what type of books and tools to look for.


I'm not sure if we've had any followers of Lilith around before, but I know we've had members who are Luciferans, Lokeans, Setians (like myself) and other followers of "dark" deities. You might try the search term "left hand path" which is sometimes used to describe these practices.
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Redfaery

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Re: Lilith and Luciferianism
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2017, 06:56:36 pm »
Quote from: Sefiru;201272
I'm not sure if we've had any followers of Lilith around before
Valentine was, but she's been gone for a while.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 06:57:08 pm by Redfaery »
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Re: Lilith and Luciferianism
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2017, 09:06:20 pm »
Quote from: Jessiya;201261
So I have had this calling for quite a long time to follow Lilith as a deity, and I am kinda yelled at by other Wiccans basically stating that it is the "dark path" and cant find much information about it, and Leftist Wiccans aren't speaking much more than being vague.

But I was wondering if in following Lilith, and erecting an altar in her name and worshipping her as my main deity makes me a Luciferian.

I've heard people refer to Lilith as a Luciferian deity, which is why I ask.

I am just looking for what to look for as far as research goes. And what type of books and tools to look for.

Lilith is an integral part of the Jewish half of my practice, as the dark aspect of the Shekhina and a Power of intertwined birth, sex, death, and monstrousness in her own right.

So, obviously, with that perspective, I would not initially think to call her "Luciferian"; I would call her Jewish. The vast majority of the lore we have about Lilith today comes from Jewish sources, and that's where I would recommend looking first, personally. Raphael Patai's The Jewish Goddess is my go-to recommendation for people interested in the feminine aspects of the Jewish godhead, and it has a full chapter on Lilith.

There are also some devotional books to Lilith out there; the aforementioned Valentine has spoken positively of Anya Kless, who wrote/edited Lilith: Queen of the Desert.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 09:07:39 pm by Eastling »
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Queen of Swords

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Re: Lilith and Luciferianism
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2017, 03:41:41 am »
Quote from: Jessiya;201261
So I have had this calling for quite a long time to follow Lilith as a deity, and I am kinda yelled at by other Wiccans basically stating that it is the "dark path" and cant find much information about it, and Leftist Wiccans aren't speaking much more than being vague.

But I was wondering if in following Lilith, and erecting an altar in her name and worshipping her as my main deity makes me a Luciferian.

I've heard people refer to Lilith as a Luciferian deity, which is why I ask.

I am just looking for what to look for as far as research goes. And what type of books and tools to look for.

No. As Eastling pointed out, her origin is Jewish (or possibly Mesopotamian, but the earliest surviving traditions relating to her are Jewish). I've heard of other pagans who work with Lilith, and even feminist Jews! Katey Flowers on youtube is one non-Luciferian I can think of off the top of my head.

Personally, I view worship of Lilith as similar to worship of Hecate (in that they are both "dark" godesses), which plenty of Wiccans do. The way that a Wiccan understands and works with Hecate is quite different from how, say, a reconstructionist would. How you incorporate Lilith into a Wiccan practice might, similarly, look different from how a Luciferian does.

Of course, if you think you might be interested in Luciferianism you should look into it! Worshipping Lilith doesn't make you a Luciferian automatically. Luciferianism is a specific belief system, not a label. To put it another way: many people who are not Christian revere Jesus. There's more to becoming a Christian than that.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 03:43:08 am by Queen of Swords »

Jessiya

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Re: Lilith and Luciferianism
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2017, 09:36:33 am »
Quote from: Queen of Swords;201281
No. As Eastling pointed out, her origin is Jewish (or possibly Mesopotamian, but the earliest surviving traditions relating to her are Jewish). I've heard of other pagans who work with Lilith, and even feminist Jews! Katey Flowers on youtube is one non-Luciferian I can think of off the top of my head.

Personally, I view worship of Lilith as similar to worship of Hecate (in that they are both "dark" godesses), which plenty of Wiccans do. The way that a Wiccan understands and works with Hecate is quite different from how, say, a reconstructionist would. How you incorporate Lilith into a Wiccan practice might, similarly, look different from how a Luciferian does.

Of course, if you think you might be interested in Luciferianism you should look into it! Worshipping Lilith doesn't make you a Luciferian automatically. Luciferianism is a specific belief system, not a label. To put it another way: many people who are not Christian revere Jesus. There's more to becoming a Christian than that.


Do you have any specific sources into the Luciferian belief system? Such as books or websites?

SerpentineSorcerer

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Re: Lilith and Luciferianism
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2017, 03:32:38 pm »
Quote from: Jessiya;201286
Do you have any specific sources into the Luciferian belief system? Such as books or websites?

 
If you're looking for resources on Lillith I have these recommendations.

Lilith - the First Eve by Siegmund Hurwitz

The Lilith Monographs: Volume 1: Immaculata by Joshua Seraphim

The Case For Lilith by Mark Biggs

http://jewishchristianlit.com//Topics/Lilith/

http://sarahannelawless.com/2009/10/09/luciferian-witchcraft/
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Queen of Swords

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Re: Lilith and Luciferianism
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2017, 04:27:19 pm »
Quote from: Jessiya;201286
Do you have any specific sources into the Luciferian belief system? Such as books or websites?

 
I'm not a Luciferian, I learned about it from an interview with Jeremy Crow, a co-founder of Assembly of Light Bearers. Here's a link to their website https://gcol.wildapricot.org/. Wisdom of Eosphoros: The Luciferian Philosophy by Michael W. Ford is a book about Luciferian philosophy from members of that group. I haven't read the book, so I can't speak to the nature or quality of the content.

Jessiya

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Re: Lilith and Luciferianism
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2017, 04:47:01 pm »
Quote from: SerpentineSorcerer;201289
If you're looking for resources on Lillith I have these recommendations.

Lilith - the First Eve by Siegmund Hurwitz

The Lilith Monographs: Volume 1: Immaculata by Joshua Seraphim

The Case For Lilith by Mark Biggs

http://jewishchristianlit.com//Topics/Lilith/

http://sarahannelawless.com/2009/10/09/luciferian-witchcraft/



I'm not looking for Jewish specific. I am talking Luciferian based... That depict both Lucifer AND Lilith.

SerpentineSorcerer

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Re: Lilith and Luciferianism
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2017, 05:37:40 pm »
Quote from: Jessiya;201292
I'm not looking for Jewish specific. I am talking Luciferian based... That depict both Lucifer AND Lilith.

 
To be frank then, you're not gonna find it. The entire concept of Lucifer as another moniker for the Adversary/Ha-Satan is a medieval concept, with said concept being the basis for the Lucifer of the Satanic Community in a lot of places. It's in said satanic community that you run into this idea of Lilith being his "consort" but said idea is mostly born from UPG, with little else backing up the claim. The entire basis of this assertion stems from the being Sammael, who is a consort of Lilith, being seen as another moniker for Satan (which is the same concept that makes Lucifer another name for the Satan character, coming about from medieval theology).

That link I posted looks at Lilith as she appears in her actual appearances in the Talmud, and her roots in babylonian theology, so that you see the origins of who Lillith is. Lilith is a figure in Jewish theology, developed earliest in the Babylonian Talmud (3rd to 5th centuries CE). The character is generally thought to derive in part from a historically far earlier class of female demons (lilītu) in Mesopotamian religion, found in cuneiform texts of Sumer, Akkad, Assyria, and Babylonia. It's from the origins that you can start going forward, coming to understand just who Lillith is and to whom she keeps company with.
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Re: Lilith and Luciferianism
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2017, 06:02:13 pm »
Quote from: Jessiya;201292
I'm not looking for Jewish specific. I am talking Luciferian based... That depict both Lucifer AND Lilith.

 
Something that doesn't respect Lilith's Jewish roots is not worth your time.
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as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

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Re: Lilith and Luciferianism
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2017, 07:17:06 pm »
Quote from: Jessiya;201261
So I have had this calling for quite a long time to follow Lilith as a deity, and I am kinda yelled at by other Wiccans basically stating that it is the "dark path" and cant find much information about it, and Leftist Wiccans aren't speaking much more than being vague.

 
Strange.  The few Lillith people I knew were "Leftist" pagans who saw in her (whether as deity or archetype) a proto-feminist force for rejecting male authority and embracing female sexuality.

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Re: Lilith and Luciferianism
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2017, 05:33:03 pm »
Quote from: hraefngar;201406
Strange.  The few Lillith people I knew were "Leftist" pagans who saw in her (whether as deity or archetype) a proto-feminist force for rejecting male authority and embracing female sexuality.

 
I think (though I'm not certain; perhaps Jessiya will return and clarify) that by 'Leftist', Jessiya meant 'Left-Hand Path', rather than politically left.

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Re: Lilith and Luciferianism
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2017, 11:35:54 am »
Quote from: Jessiya;201261
So I have had this calling for quite a long time to follow Lilith as a deity, and I am kinda yelled at by other Wiccans basically stating that it is the "dark path" and cant find much information about it, and Leftist Wiccans aren't speaking much more than being vague.

But I was wondering if in following Lilith, and erecting an altar in her name and worshipping her as my main deity makes me a Luciferian.

I've heard people refer to Lilith as a Luciferian deity, which is why I ask.

I am just looking for what to look for as far as research goes. And what type of books and tools to look for.

 

Lucifer (in latin langauage) or Heosforos (Greek) is pagan god of planet Venus.
And Lilith also belongs to Venus. Thats true. But Lilith is a night demon. Lilith in Jewish mythology is the first wife of Adam, tey have with Adam several children. In Babylonian mythology a night demon from eastern deserts, but friendly to people.  Interesting is Tibetan myth abouth Brag srin mo (see Journey to Tibet by Ippolito Desidery) a night demon from Eastern deserts, wife of a first man and moher of mankind.

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