collapse

* Recent Posts

Re: "Christ Is King" by SunflowerP
[Yesterday at 11:06:51 pm]


Re: "Christ Is King" by SunflowerP
[Yesterday at 10:30:17 pm]


Re: "Christ Is King" by Darkhawk
[Yesterday at 08:31:19 pm]


Re: "Christ Is King" by Darkhawk
[Yesterday at 07:54:40 pm]


Re: "Christ Is King" by Sefiru
[Yesterday at 07:44:49 pm]

Author Topic: Celebrating Sabbats the wrong day?  (Read 3186 times)

CrimsonSong

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 7
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Celebrating Sabbats the wrong day?
« on: December 24, 2016, 12:12:02 am »
I didn't get a chance to do anything on the Solstice but I'd like to do it this weekend when I can. What are people's thoughts on that?
Harken to the night sky, to the great epiphany / To that moment shared between kindred spirits / Two separate souls desperate to emerge as one whole / The light and dark are always in balance / Always struggling for supremacy / Yet one needs the other to survive. * landseasky.deviantart.com

Morag

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: witch's hut down the lane
  • *
  • Posts: 2735
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 356
  • cranky witch mom
    • View Profile
    • Priestess of the 3
  • Religion: Priestess of the 3
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: Celebrating Sabbats the wrong day?
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2016, 02:18:30 am »
Quote from: CrimsonSong;200450
I didn't get a chance to do anything on the Solstice but I'd like to do it this weekend when I can. What are people's thoughts on that?

 
SunflowerP and I were just talking about this in chat the other day, and sie posted about it to the "Found on my hard drive: the "You Can't Be Pagan" list" thread. (Actually a great thread to read through.)

Which is to say: it is a common and wrong idea that if you don't celebrate a holiday on the exact date (or with a formal ritual) that you're Doin It Rong.

Which is silly, because as Sunflower pointed out very eloquently in chat and I am paraphrasing: the Wheel doesn't stop turning between the sabbats and then make a massive 1/8th jolt forward on Yule or Imbolc or whatever. It keeps turning year round. (And as far as Longest Night goes, well the difference is a matter of seconds between the actual solstice night and a few nights later. We won't really notice the days getting longer until January, if not later depending on where we live in the Northern Hemisphere (Southern Hemisphere of course noticing the days getting shorter at this time of year).)

So the date? Not quite so important as just that acknowledgement happens.

And actually, the idea that you must do it on Such and Such a Day or must do a formal ritual for it can actually be actively harmful to young pagans wanting to start out practicing. During my years of being Wiccish, early in my pagan journey, I don't think I ever did a single sabbat, because I was so afraid of Doin It Rong by not being able to do it on the specific day or doing the right ritual that I ended up freezing and not doing anything at all. Now, after years of trying to unlearn that fear, I'm able to celebrate when and as I'm able, which sometimes is quite off from the "proper" day. I've yet to be struck down by the gods.

tl;dr: Celebrate when and as you can, because the idea that it's not a "proper" celebration if you're a few or even several days off is just wrong, period.
Pray drunk. Hex sober.
Priestess of the 3
"The most powerful god at any given moment is the one who can solve the moment's problem."
-Darkhawk

Altair

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: New York, New York
  • *
  • Posts: 3752
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 937
  • Fly high and make the world follow
    • View Profile
    • Songs of the Metamythos
  • Religion: tree-hugging pagan
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Celebrating Sabbats the wrong day?
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2016, 07:27:59 am »
Quote from: CrimsonSong;200450
I didn't get a chance to do anything on the Solstice but I'd like to do it this weekend when I can. What are people's thoughts on that?


I think that's just fine. I frequently adjust my summer solstice celebration by a day or three to accommodate the weather, since I do it outdoors. The important thing is the intent and the experience you get out of it.

And while we're at it, think about the number of holidays in other religions that shift around a lot (usually because there's lunar involvement in calculating when they occur): Easter, Ramadan, Passover.... And the dates of the solstices and equinoxes shift around a bit each year to begin with, so....
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Demophon

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 258
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Celebrating Sabbats the wrong day?
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2016, 08:15:01 am »
Quote from: CrimsonSong;200450
I didn't get a chance to do anything on the Solstice but I'd like to do it this weekend when I can. What are people's thoughts on that?

 
I think it's perfectly fine. In one of Janet and Stewart Farrar's books, they say that, if you can't celebrate on the actual day, it's better to observe the sabbat after the traditional date because the the new seasonal tide will have begun. Celebrating before the tide changes means the energy will be that of the waning previous tide. This mostly refers to the lesser sabbats (solstices and equinoxes), as they are astronomical events that happen at specific (if varying from year to year) times. The dates of the greater sabbats are really just traditional, and much more arbitrary.

Jenett

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Boston, MA
  • Posts: 3743
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 1235
    • View Profile
    • Seeking: First steps on a path
  • Religion: Initiatory religious witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: Celebrating Sabbats the wrong day?
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2016, 08:43:40 am »
Quote from: CrimsonSong;200450
I didn't get a chance to do anything on the Solstice but I'd like to do it this weekend when I can. What are people's thoughts on that?

 
It's often really common for groups to not celebrate on the theoretically perfect time, just because the theoretically perfect time is not a time the group can get together. (i.e. it's often the nearest weekend rather than, y'know, 3am on a weekday, like this year's solstice was locally.)

As Morag puts so well, you're celebrating the season, generally, not a Precise Moment In Time.

Personally, I do adjust how I frame the ritual based on where I am in relation to the actual ritual moment; if I'm ahead, it will be "As I approach the equinox and the moment of balance, I am mindful of..." If I'm a few days later than the equinox, it will be "Now that I've recently had that moment of balance, I am reflecting on..." With the winter solstice, it might be "Now that the days are beginning to get longer, and the nights shorter.." or whatever.

I have also found that making *some* recognition of it (not ritual, but the equivalent of a paragraph or so of mental reflection and some kind of tiny little ritual moment) at the precise timing (or the appropriate day, anyway) helps me feel like the ritual I do earlier or later is a bit more anchored in time.

That might be pausing when I leave the house on the solstice, taking a couple of deep breaths, and feeling how the sun feels that morning. That might be a few deep breaths at home when I wake up, reflecting on the seasonal change. That might be specifically looking for signs of the season on my commute to work or having particular seasonal pieces of music on for a few minutes.
Seek Knowledge, Find Wisdom: Research help on esoteric and eclectic topics (consulting and other services)

Seeking: first steps on a Pagan path (advice for seekers and people new to Paganism)

Kylara

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 1433
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 319
    • View Profile
    • https://www.patreon.com/kyndryana
  • Religion: Norse Fusion Witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her/hers
Re: Celebrating Sabbats the wrong day?
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2016, 11:33:35 am »
Quote from: CrimsonSong;200450
I didn't get a chance to do anything on the Solstice but I'd like to do it this weekend when I can. What are people's thoughts on that?

 
I often end up doing my rituals and celebrations not on the day.  If I am attending a group ritual, we almost always do things on weekends (because people work and what not), so rarely do the dates line up.  If I am doing things on my own, I prefer to have a time where I am alone, so the house is quiet and I know that I won't be interrupted.

I do like to make some kind of observance on the day, even if it's only to take a breath and acknowledge what day it is (much like Jenett described).

Sometimes, if I'm really slammed or super tired, I'll visualize my ritual, in bed, before falling asleep.

I have never felt that my observances, whatever form they took, were inappropriate or unwanted.
Check out my Patreon for more writing and other goodies!

CrimsonSong

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 7
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Celebrating Sabbats the wrong day?
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2016, 01:16:26 pm »
Quote from: Morag;200452
SunflowerP and I were just talking about this in chat the other day, and sie posted about it to the "Found on my hard drive: the "You Can't Be Pagan" list" thread. (Actually a great thread to read through.)

Which is to say: it is a common and wrong idea that if you don't celebrate a holiday on the exact date (or with a formal ritual) that you're Doin It Rong.

Which is silly, because as Sunflower pointed out very eloquently in chat and I am paraphrasing: the Wheel doesn't stop turning between the sabbats and then make a massive 1/8th jolt forward on Yule or Imbolc or whatever. It keeps turning year round. (And as far as Longest Night goes, well the difference is a matter of seconds between the actual solstice night and a few nights later. We won't really notice the days getting longer until January, if not later depending on where we live in the Northern Hemisphere (Southern Hemisphere of course noticing the days getting shorter at this time of year).)

So the date? Not quite so important as just that acknowledgement happens.

And actually, the idea that you must do it on Such and Such a Day or must do a formal ritual for it can actually be actively harmful to young pagans wanting to start out practicing. During my years of being Wiccish, early in my pagan journey, I don't think I ever did a single sabbat, because I was so afraid of Doin It Rong by not being able to do it on the specific day or doing the right ritual that I ended up freezing and not doing anything at all. Now, after years of trying to unlearn that fear, I'm able to celebrate when and as I'm able, which sometimes is quite off from the "proper" day. I've yet to be struck down by the gods.

tl;dr: Celebrate when and as you can, because the idea that it's not a "proper" celebration if you're a few or even several days off is just wrong, period.

 
Yes with the freezing! Like I started doubting myself and even though I got everything I wanted to use for a ritual I just... froze up and haven't done anything. I'm definitely going to do it tonight, thank you!
Harken to the night sky, to the great epiphany / To that moment shared between kindred spirits / Two separate souls desperate to emerge as one whole / The light and dark are always in balance / Always struggling for supremacy / Yet one needs the other to survive. * landseasky.deviantart.com

OldenwildeHP

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 44
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Celebrating Sabbats the wrong day?
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2016, 10:57:52 pm »
Quote from: Demophon;200454
I think it's perfectly fine. In one of Janet and Stewart Farrar's books, they say that, if you can't celebrate on the actual day, it's better to observe the sabbat after the traditional date because the the new seasonal tide will have begun. Celebrating before the tide changes means the energy will be that of the waning previous tide. This mostly refers to the lesser sabbats (solstices and equinoxes), as they are astronomical events that happen at specific (if varying from year to year) times. The dates of the greater sabbats are really just traditional, and much more arbitrary.

 
I respectfully think the Farrars got quite a lot wrong about the Sabbats, and this is another example.

The Greater Sabbat dates really aren't arbitrary. If you picture the Wheel of the Year dividing the circle of the year into 8 spokes, and the solstices and equinoxes being the 4 spokes that form a cross, the Greater Sabbats are the 4 spokes that form an X -- at the midpoints between the solstices and equinoxes. In the old Celtic and Germanic calendars the Greater Sabbats began each season (which is why we still often call Summer Solstice "Midsummer's Day", even though modern calendars say it's the beginning of summer). Often they were celebrated on the closest Full Moon to that midpoint day, which is still a great idea if you're holding an outdoor Sabbat gathering -- lots of energy and natural light for your all-night revels!

Astrologically, each midpoint should technically fall on the day when the Sun reaches 15 degrees of a fixed sign -- meaning, for example, that Imbolc "should" be on Feb. 4 or 5 in 2017, Beltane on May 5 or 6, etc. That's probably how it was originally done in Europe, and still is in the Chinese calendar. But for reasons that have to do with the Julian calendar that the Romans used and spread along with their empire, the Sabbats became fixed to the first day of the month, the Julian "Calends" -- so that in Welsh, for example, Beltane is still called "Calan Mai", the Calends of May.  

So the Greater Sabbats always fall before the "changing of the tide". Consider that we (like our ancestors) are often doing spellwork and divination relating to the coming time, working to influence or foresee the near future. Given the choice, wouldn't it be preferable to do so before the wave crests rather than after it washes over you?

That said, I agree with the other folks here that each Sabbat is, in practical experience, more a zone of time than a precise point. One rule of thumb I was taught is that you can celebrate it up to 3 days before or 3 days after the official date. Maybe the most important rule is just to celebrate it somehow, period, because doing so keeps the Wheel turning for you just as kicking your legs when you're on a swing keeps your momentum going.

This topic's at the top of my head right now because I just submitted to our publisher the manuscript of our new book, "Rituals & Sabbats: Sacred Rites & Seasonal Celebrations", which hopefully will be out by spring (we should be able to take pre-orders very soon on www.oldenwilde.org).
"You\'re not alone -- the majority of the world\'s people believe that it\'s neither men nor money that rules the earth but magic." -- The Goodly Spellbook

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
14 Replies
3718 Views
Last post September 04, 2011, 10:55:11 am
by Jujulinda
0 Replies
2212 Views
Last post August 19, 2012, 03:13:48 pm
by RandallS
16 Replies
3016 Views
Last post March 11, 2013, 05:54:32 pm
by troll maiden
9 Replies
2343 Views
Last post May 07, 2013, 04:53:27 pm
by Louisvillian
8 Replies
2056 Views
Last post November 26, 2017, 04:32:27 pm
by Micheál

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 245
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Allaya, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Ashmire, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

'Up All Night' Coordinator:
Altair

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Chatelaine, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal