The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum

I have been into the occult most of my life and I love it but my Christian roots keep pulling at me and I fear God will cast me into hell.I believe in and love God but I am truly afraid.I have tried finding other beliefs to justify my action but I keep getting pulled back.   pls help

Have you studied the birth of the early Christian church? It makes fascinating reading and underlines just how arbitrary the material in the Bible is. It's a torrid tale of infighting, murder and compromise.. For example Revelations only just squeaked in and the chairman of one of the councils (I think the Nicene but don't have the references here to check at the moment) involved in putting together the bible and agreeing the doctrine was appointed by Constantine  because he had the management skills to control the warring bishops.  That he was actually pagan himself didn't matter....

I'm away from my books at the moment to give you the exact references  but Charles Freeman has written some very readable books on the subject  "AD:381" and "The Closing of the Western Mind"

I fear God will cast me into hell.

You're already in Hell, buddy. Shedding that fear you have is dependent upon your realizing that. It doesn't get any worse than being made to feel as though everything you're naturally drawn to do is abhorrent in the eyes of the strongest thing in the Universe, and punishable by endless torture. It's an irrational fear. As a result, ideas, concepts, and more frameworks play a smaller role than you think. General life wisdom and self-acceptance is the cure. Time, in other words.

Just my two cents. Good luck freeing yourself. I know how scary it is.

Have you studied the birth of the early Christian church? It makes fascinating reading and underlines just how arbitrary the material in the Bible is. It's a torrid tale of infighting, murder and compromise.. For example Revelations only just squeaked in and the chairman of one of the councils (I think the Nicene but don't have the references here to check at the moment) involved in putting together the bible and agreeing the doctrine was appointed by Constantine  because he had the management skills to control the warring bishops.  That he was actually pagan himself didn't matter....

I'm away from my books at the moment to give you the exact references  but Charles Freeman has written some very readable books on the subject  "AD:381" and "The Closing of the Western Mind"

 
I second this, and I'd add exploring the intertextual nature of the Bible and how it came to exist in its current forms.  Did you know for instance that parts of it show evidence of early Jewish belief in plural gods?  And though I do not recommend relying on this as your "get out of hell free" card you may wish to explore the history of Universalism in the church, the belief that all will be saved.

I am sorry you feel this way, but as mentioned, this is irrational.  You should explore what you're looking for in both Christianity and occultism, and as mentioned in the thread, you likely need to change denominations or at least churches since that is likely the source of fear - I would advise the latter even if you gave up occultism.  There is no sense in clinging to that nonsensical fear regardless of what you do.

I have been into the occult most of my life and I love it but my Christian roots keep pulling at me and I fear God will cast me into hell.I believe in and love God but I am truly afraid.I have tried finding other beliefes to justify my action but I keep getting pulled back.   pls help

 
I am not Christian anymore, I am Hindu, though I was baptized and raised Roman Catholic. Not for a minute do I believe in the thrown-into-the-lake-of-fire business.  I don't disbelieve in the God of the Bible, but to me he is just another deity - a deva, a demi-god - in a pantheon of thousands of deities humans worship. I personally do not believe he is powerful enough to throw anyone anywhere (I do not believe in the Christian concept of Hell). In my beliefs Vishnu, Shiva and Devi (Goddess) are manifestations of the Supreme God; they have the chops to kick any other deity's ass.

Aside from that, here's a paraphrased story from Paramahansa Yogananda, a much loved Hindu saint:

An old man was complaining about his "wayward" son (I'm not going to break into the Kansas song :p). The old man said his son drank, smoked, was promiscuous, committing the oldest sins in the newest ways. He said his son was going to be punished by God and sent to Hell for eternity for his "sins".

The saint asked the old man if he loved his son. The old man said yes of course. The saint said that the old man should tie his son up up and throw him into a furnace. The old man said "whoever heard of a father throwing his own son into an oven!?"

Yogananda said "Don't you understand what I've just said to you? You said God wants to throw us all into hell.  But He is our true Father!  You, a mere human being, were horrified at the thought of throwing your own son into an oven despite all the trouble he's given you.  Can you seriously believe that God who is Perfection Itself, has less love for you than you have for your own son?" The old man said "I see now, you are right."  He said to the saint "thank you! You've cured me of a serious error. God is Love.  He can't wish our destruction!".

We could say that even Jesus spoke of being cast into the fires of Hell, but in my opinion - and it's only my opinion - it was interpolated later as a fear and control tactic.

We could say that even Jesus spoke of being cast into the fires of Hell, but in my opinion - and it's only my opinion - it was interpolated later as a fear and control tactic.

 
Actually, I think the problem is more that modern Christians have no clue what the role of the prophet was and is in Jewish culture.

A prophet is not a soothsayer prognosticating a distant future; a prophet is someone who says, "If you don't clean up your act, let me tell you what's going to go down."  Biblical prophecy is about the present - not the now-present, the present of the time of the prophet.  Biblical prophecy is "If this goes on..."

I highly recommend the link on preterism that Sunf posted above.  Because Jesus - as a prophet in the Biblical tradition - looked at the might of the Roman Empire and said, "Guys?  If you keep fucking with the Romans like that you are going to be sorry.  Here are some better suggestions on how to fuck with the Romans in ways that won't get the Temple destroyed and a lot of people killed.  ...fuck, you people don't listen.  There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth, and there ain't nothing I can do to stop it if you don't listen."

I quote http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/84902/jewish/What-is-Prophecy.htm :
"The purpose of prophecy is to make course corrections in the direction of Jewish society, or in the direction of society at large. Sometimes a prophet comes to foretell the future, when G‑d deems it necessary that we should know what's to come in order to encourage us in our mission in life. Other times it's to remind us that we're slacking off on what He expects from us, and warn us of the dire consequences this will bring if we don't get our act together."

Also:
"There were thousands of prophets in Jewish history (we also know of at least one non-Jewish prophet, Balaam). The overwhelming majority of them, however, conveyed messages that were specific to the time and circumstances they were sent to address. Their prophecies, therefore, were not recorded for posterity, and even their names are unknown to us. Many of these prophets were ordinary citizens -- students, craftsmen, farmers -- who, by virtue of their righteousness and heightened sensitivity to spirituality, were selected by G‑d to receive a prophecy."


And they didn't listen to him.  And it's funny, the Temple got destroyed and a lot of people were killed.  Because Rome didn't fuck around with the possibility of uprisings in conquered territories.

The whole concept of Hell?  Yeah, that's a more modern fear and control tactic.  But that doesn't mean he didn't say the stuff that he was reported to say - just that in its cultural context and its time it didn't mean the stuff people made up later.

A prophet is not a soothsayer prognosticating a distant future; a prophet is someone who says, "If you don't clean up your act, let me tell you what's going to go down."  Biblical prophecy is about the present - not the now-present, the present of the time of the prophet.  Biblical prophecy is "If this goes on..."

I am not saying that you are incorrect, but I do believe that you are incomplete. The real purpose of prophecy, in my mind, is to reveal the Heart of God. That heart does in fact manifest as concern for the present course of individuals and their societies, and much prophecy thus is concerned with immediate needs...as you correctly note. Other, longer-term prophecy reveals what God is prepared to do, if necessary. The Revelation is not a "script", as many think, but a glimpse of the lengths to which God is prepared to go, if necessary, to establish justice and judge evil. Scattered throughout the Revelation you find the phrase, "And men did not repent...." But elsewhere in the Old Testament God makes it abundantly clear that prophecies of judgment are always conditional...and that He is always looking for an intercessor. So, then, if men do in fact repent, then God has every reason to relent of His promised judgment. Revelation shows what God is prepared to do if necessary...but I believe that He fervently hopes that it will not be.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

Actually, I think the problem is more that modern Christians have no clue what the role of the prophet was and is in Jewish culture. ...

Oh yes absolutely, that too.

Great add'l info.