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Author Topic: i fear hell  (Read 7498 times)

Immortal

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Re: i fear hell
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2016, 01:08:07 pm »
Quote from: wormgiy;199470
I have been into the occult most of my life and I love it but my Christian roots keep pulling at me and I fear God will cast me into hell.I believe in and love God but I am truly afraid.I have tried finding other beliefes to justify my action but I keep getting pulled back.   pls help

 
Hey, no need to be afraid...

I was a Fundamentalist, Pentacostal myself most of my life. I loved studying the meanings of the Greek words and studied myself right out of my beliefs. You see, the Universalists are correct. There is no Hell, at least not the one you were taught. It was put in by Constantine and the like to control people and yeah, you see how well that works right? It is a Roman idea. Study the Greek words in the New Testament for Hell. You will see it mostly says eons and eons which means eternity which doesn't mean Hell, other places it gives the name of the area in Jerusalem that they used as a garbage dump wherethey burnt some dead dudes. Not Hell either and not used figuratively. The Bible has been hashed and rehashed to its detriment.

Once I didn't believe in Hell, I wondered about Creation because yeah, heady fanciful stuff there. Find a book on creation stories around the world by an archeologist. The people groups around the Hebrew nation all have similar stories from before the time the Hebrews did, so not too original. After I lost the beginning and end, well...

I still love Jesus, only he prefers for me to call him Jeshua. I love the Holy Spirit, and other "minor deities" I call them that are in the Christian pantheon.

Jesus refused my worship, he just wants me to treat him as a brother. He says I don't have to worship anyone. I love singing praise songs though as I was a worship leader for five years in one church and on the worship team in others. So he said, worship Brigid (Celtic goddess), I said, but she is a fire goddess like Yahweh and I am scared of them. He says, yeah, I know, that is why I suggested her...

So I met her and I am getting to know her better. I dunno if I will worship anyone, but I think I will try maybe... I am thinking of writing devotional music for those who worship the Goddess. I dunno how that will work out, haha...

You have the whole world at your fingertips if you would only let go of what is pulling you down is what I am trying to say! Good Luck.

Love,

Immortal
Pagan/New Age Shaman wannabe, baby Druid, studying Wicca. I want to be an Interfaith Minister. I have been a Christian, a baby Buddhist and an atheist (kind of).

Immortal

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Re: i fear hell
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2016, 01:20:54 pm »
Quote from: Immortal;199864
Hey, no need to be afraid...

It was put in by Constantine and the like to control people and yeah, you see how well that works right? It is a Roman idea. Study the Greek words in the New Testament for Hell. You will see it mostly says eons and eons which means eternity which doesn't mean Hell, other places it gives the name of the area in Jerusalem that they used as a garbage dump wherethey burnt some dead dudes. Not Hell either and not used figuratively. The Bible has been hashed and rehashed to its detriment.


Immortal

 


Oh yeah, and they took out reincarnation cuz hey, it doesn't play well with eternal hellfire right? There are vestiges of it in the Bible though... Jesus said to Peter, who do you say I am? Well yeah where did they get Elijah and John the Baptist as an answer to that? They believed in reincarnation and walk-ins too.

Just saying... hashed and rehashed content.

Love,

Immortal
Pagan/New Age Shaman wannabe, baby Druid, studying Wicca. I want to be an Interfaith Minister. I have been a Christian, a baby Buddhist and an atheist (kind of).

ehbowen

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Re: i fear hell
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2016, 11:10:05 pm »
Quote from: Immortal;199864
There is no Hell, at least not the one you were taught. It was put in by Constantine and the like to control people and yeah, you see how well that works right?

Once I didn't believe in Hell, I wondered about Creation because yeah, heady fanciful stuff there.
Immortal

 
Quote from: Immortal;199865
Oh yeah, and they took out reincarnation cuz hey, it doesn't play well with eternal hellfire right?

 
I must say that I disagree with both of your posts, very strongly, based both upon Scripture and my own experiences with the God of the Bible. However, that disagreement does not belong in the "Paganism for Beginners" forum. If you or anyone else wishes to revisit the topic in the "Interfaith" or some other appropriate area, I will be willing to discuss.
--------Eric H. Bowen
Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!
Computers are like air conditioning. They become useless when you open Windows—Linus Torvalds.

Caleb Oak

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Re: i fear hell
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2016, 07:44:58 am »
Quote from: Immortal;199865
Oh yeah, and they took out reincarnation cuz hey, it doesn't play well with eternal hellfire right? There are vestiges of it in the Bible though... Jesus said to Peter, who do you say I am? Well yeah where did they get Elijah and John the Baptist as an answer to that? They believed in reincarnation and walk-ins too.

Just saying... hashed and rehashed content.

Love,

Immortal

 
They took out reincarnation?
How?  :confused:

MadZealot

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Re: i fear hell
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2016, 12:54:19 pm »
Quote from: Thrak;199937
They took out reincarnation?
How?  :confused:

 
Whitewash.
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Vixen

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Re: i fear hell
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2016, 03:38:43 am »
Quote from: ehbowen;199905
I must say that I disagree with both of your posts, very strongly, based both upon Scripture and my own experiences with the God of the Bible. However, that disagreement does not belong in the "Paganism for Beginners" forum. If you or anyone else wishes to revisit the topic in the "Interfaith" or some other appropriate area, I will be willing to discuss.


I'd be very interested. I've been following this discussion for a while now. Its very enlightening.
You're only given a little spark of madness, you mustn't lose it.

ehbowen

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Re: i fear hell
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2016, 06:16:14 am »
Quote from: Immortal;199864
Hey, no need to be afraid...

There is no Hell, at least not the one you were taught. It was put in by Constantine and the like to control people and yeah, you see how well that works right?

Once I didn't believe in Hell, I wondered about Creation because yeah, heady fanciful stuff there. Find a book on creation stories around the world by an archeologist. The people groups around the Hebrew nation all have similar stories from before the time the Hebrews did, so not too original. After I lost the beginning and end, well...

 
Quote from: Immortal;199865
Oh yeah, and they took out reincarnation cuz hey, it doesn't play well with eternal hellfire right?

 
Quote from: Vixen;200012
I'd be very interested. I've been following this discussion for a while now. Its very enlightening.

 
Reply being composed off-line; look for it in the "Non-Pagan Religions" forum under the title, "Hell, Creation, Reincarnation...and Counterfeiting." If it doesn't turn up right away, give me a day or two.

My personal tendencies are to put Everything Right Up Front. However, that often gets unnecessarily preachy. I will make the effort to limit the initial post to basic fundamentals, and then be willing to expand upon them in discussion if anyone is interested.
--------Eric H. Bowen
Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!
Computers are like air conditioning. They become useless when you open Windows—Linus Torvalds.

SunflowerP

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Re: i fear hell
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2016, 08:44:49 pm »
Quote from: ehbowen;200013
Reply being composed off-line; look for it in the "Non-Pagan Religions" forum under the title, "Hell, Creation, Reincarnation...and Counterfeiting." If it doesn't turn up right away, give me a day or two.

 
Amendment: as per what I said in this thread, it won't be in 'Non-Pagan Religions', but in Eric's re-introduction thread. (An extended exegesis of one individual's - anyone's, not just Eric's - personal belief system isn't well-suited to TC's 'discussion and debate' focus, since it's very difficult to debate someone's belief system without breaking the rules, so Eric's post needs to be someplace in which the 'rules of engagement' place less emphasis on debate.)

Eric, I'll be sending you a private message shortly to discuss details of how best to extend your re-intro thread for this purpose.

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Vixen

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Re: i fear hell
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2016, 03:16:25 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;200035
Amendment: as per what I said in this thread, it won't be in 'Non-Pagan Religions', but in Eric's re-introduction thread. (An extended exegesis of one individual's - anyone's, not just Eric's - personal belief system isn't well-suited to TC's 'discussion and debate' focus, since it's very difficult to debate someone's belief system without breaking the rules, so Eric's post needs to be someplace in which the 'rules of engagement' place less emphasis on debate.)

 
Sunflower, is there any place on this forum where we could have a healthy discussion about things like this? I do love to ruff around with somebody over these things. Maybe a discussion section where all limits are off? (besides the regular be nice to eachother and don't attack a person)
You're only given a little spark of madness, you mustn't lose it.

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Re: i fear hell
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2016, 04:56:09 am »
Quote from: wormgiy;199470
I have been into the occult most of my life and I love it but my Christian roots keep pulling at me and I fear God will cast me into hell.I believe in and love God but I am truly afraid.I have tried finding other beliefes to justify my action but I keep getting pulled back.   pls help

 
Lately I've been watching videos from this Irish guy, Darryl Sloan, who was a Christian up until 2006. He has some interesting ideas about life and perhaps his analysis of Christianity and the concepts of Heaven and Hell will be beneficial in removing the mind worm.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClkst0x6pwEHyn1wvfzOEtA

Caleb Oak

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Re: i fear hell
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2016, 01:07:08 pm »
Quote from: MadZealot;199943
Whitewash.

 
Iam not kidding.... I really want to know.
In what book of the bible was that stuff? :)

SunflowerP

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Re: i fear hell
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2016, 03:16:59 am »
Quote from: Vixen;200043
Sunflower, is there any place on this forum where we could have a healthy discussion about things like this? I do love to ruff around with somebody over these things. Maybe a discussion section where all limits are off? (besides the regular be nice to eachother and don't attack a person)

 
I'm not sure just what limits you're referring to, other than our rules, which are not going to be suspended, for this or for anything else. If you're thinking 'nice' is one of those limits, though, I'll note that you won't find that word anywhere in TC's rules.

(Your question did, though, help me think of another idea for where Eric's thread might fit. I'm doublechecking on the possibility, and will let everyone know if it works out.)

Sunflower
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My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

SunflowerP

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Re: i fear hell
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2016, 11:26:36 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;200076
(Your question did, though, help me think of another idea for where Eric's thread might fit. I'm doublechecking on the possibility, and will let everyone know if it works out.)

 
Look for it in Special Topic Discussions after New Year's.

We're looking at re-starting Special Topic Discussions anyway (as you can see, there aren't any on this incarnation of TC, in contrast to that forum on the archive board which has 25), and this is an excellent fit. By the time it goes up, we expect there to already be a couple of others started.

Sunflower
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I do so have a life; I just live part of it online!
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
"Nobody's good at anything until they practice." - Brina (Yewberry)
My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

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Re: i fear hell
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2016, 09:09:48 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;200262
Look for it in Special Topic Discussions after New Year's.

We're looking at re-starting Special Topic Discussions anyway (as you can see, there aren't any on this incarnation of TC, in contrast to that forum on the archive board which has 25), and this is an excellent fit. By the time it goes up, we expect there to already be a couple of others started.

Sunflower

 
Awesome Sunflower! That is exactly what I meant.
You're only given a little spark of madness, you mustn't lose it.

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Re: i fear hell
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2016, 03:16:18 pm »
Quote from: wormgiy;199470
I have been into the occult most of my life and I love it but my Christian roots keep pulling at me and I fear God will cast me into hell.I believe in and love God but I am truly afraid.I have tried finding other beliefes to justify my action but I keep getting pulled back.   pls help

The Pagan view of the universe is one of complementary opposites - light/dark, yin/yang, earth/sky, male/female, Shakta/Shakti. The major patriarchal religions have a duality of good and evil, God and Satan. The concept of Satan has been around for thousands of years, not only in the Hebrew tradition. The Babylonians, Chaldeans, and Persians believed in a dualism between the forces of darkness and light. Even Paganism has it's Hades and Hel (A Northern Goddess of the underworld), however the concept of Satan was developed by the Church and eventually he was called the Devil, a term meaning 'little God'.

While God was originally responsible for good and bad (for example he sent plagues etc. to punish his followers) it was slowly assumed that God did only the good things and the Devil/Satan all the bad things. The Christian church developed the concept of Lucifer, the fallen angel. The Devil was officially adopted by the Christian church in 447 and he was pronounced immortal in 547. Consequently it is impossible for Pagans to adopt the concept of the Devil which is a Judeo-Christian concept. Likewise the Satanists are, in a sense followers of the Judaic/Christian belief system because they worship an anti-god figure which belongs to that system.*

This is what kind of Opened my eyes as a Christian Convert to Paganism. I thought it could be fairly useful to your struggle currently. I struggled with the same thing for a while, but as I studied Paganism more and Christianity less, I felt as if my eyes had been opened.

One of my biggest Struggles as a convert and with converts of spiritual traditions is that they bring the baggage of their childhood religion, if any, with them when they arrive. On top of that, even those that have no religion have grown up here in America (speaking from personal experience) and bring a lot of religious assumptions with them into their new faith. This means, in my opinion, that a lot of the underlying or unconscious assumptions within the American community may be either shaped or informed by the experiences of either growing up Christian or in a Christian culture.

For myself, I grew up Baptist as the child of a convert. The “smells and bells” end of spirituality has always been very appealing to me, probably at least a little because of this. I was an altar boy and generally happy as a Baptist until my teen years when I had the realization that I didn’t really believe in God as presented. That eventually led to my paganism. I spent the next seven to ten years, depending on how you want to count, as a fairly active Pagan.

Eventually, I acted on an intellectual fascination that I’d had with Buddhism, took refuge, and it took over more and more of my thoughts and practices over time until I really did not think of myself as a pagan or magician anymore. One day, I formalized it for myself. All that being true, if you rub off the Buddhist exterior for the chocolate filling within, you will find a pagan in me.

One of things that I really appreciated in Tibetan Buddhism and which I appreciate in Japanese Buddhism moreso is the incorporation of the world around us, especially the landscape and life in it, into their beliefs. I am a child of the Pacific Northwest and my vision of nature is tall evergreen trees, ferns, moss, and fog and rain. To me, that is a peaceful and calm place and one outside the hustle and bustle that we create for ourselves as humans. I saw a lot of these sorts of places, usually with a shrine in them.

At the end of the day, I’m as much and more of a pagan than I am a Buddhist, although I have adopted some useful talents of letting go of what you cannot change. I doubt that will ever go away and I would not want it to do so. When we are gone to our graves, the world will still be here, even if scarred by our presence. It is alive and full of life. Even with the realization of other truths, this does not change. I firmly believe our souls will carry on, as it would in the wheel of life. This is my path. This is why I believe what I do.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 01:10:01 am by SunflowerP »

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