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Author Topic: Holiday Worship.  (Read 2964 times)

Groove_dust

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Holiday Worship.
« on: November 15, 2016, 05:03:44 am »
Hello,
I am a degree student making a short, non commercial documentary about paganism in modern day. I am focusing the piece on the topic of Christmas, its commercialism, history, and engulfment by christianity.
As a practising Pagan myself, this project is very close to my heart but I was wondering if anybody had any thoughts or issues they could share with me regarding worship around the solstice, or if/how ritual is effected by the christian and commercial undertones.
No comments will be used in the film without express permission of the user.
I would really appreciate the help!
Thank you!
Lydia.

Darkhawk

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Re: Holiday Worship.
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2016, 09:06:20 am »
Quote from: Groove_dust;199092
Hello,
I am a degree student making a short, non commercial documentary about paganism in modern day. I am focusing the piece on the topic of Christmas, its commercialism, history, and engulfment by christianity.

 
How would Christianity "engulf" its own holiday, then?
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

njsquarebear

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Re: Holiday Worship.
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2016, 10:35:06 am »
Quote from: Groove_dust;199092
Hello,
I am a degree student making a short, non commercial documentary about paganism in modern day. I am focusing the piece on the topic of Christmas, its commercialism, history, and engulfment by christianity.

As a practising Pagan myself, this project is very close to my heart but I was wondering if anybody had any thoughts or issues they could share with me regarding worship around the solstice, or if/how ritual is effected by the christian and commercial undertones.

 
It seems like so many 'documentary' videos I see on YouTube regarding Christmas and the Winter Solstice end up being anti-Pagan or anti-Christian.  It would be interesting to see one that's more positive... showing religious groups which celebrate BOTH (probably just Unitarian-Universalists, but maybe a few UCCers?)... also how pagans and non-pagans celebrate the holidays together (peacefully and joyously)?
peace,
Brian (njsquarebear)

ehbowen

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Re: Holiday Worship.
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2016, 06:55:57 pm »
Quote from: njsquarebear;199330
It seems like so many 'documentary' videos I see on YouTube regarding Christmas and the Winter Solstice end up being anti-Pagan or anti-Christian.  It would be interesting to see one that's more positive... showing religious groups which celebrate BOTH (probably just Unitarian-Universalists, but maybe a few UCCers?)... also how pagans and non-pagans celebrate the holidays together (peacefully and joyously)?
Those of us outside the Roman church realize that Jesus wasn't really born on December 25th. Shepherds in Israel don't "abide in the fields" at night in December - - it's COLD! - - but they do in the spring, when the lambs are born. Still, God transcends time, and the important fact is that at a distinct point in time He did in fact step into this world to live among us as one of us. He might be forgiven for giving up after the friendly reception He received...but, I'm convinced, He hasn't.

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Sarah

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Re: Holiday Worship.
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2016, 07:53:14 pm »
Quote from: ehbowen;199565
Those of us outside the Roman church realize that Jesus wasn't really born on December 25th.


 
I'm pretty sure most inside the Roman church realize this too
Knowing when to use a shovel is what being a witch is all about. Nanny Ogg, Witches Abroad

ehbowen

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Re: Holiday Worship.
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2016, 09:05:48 pm »
Quote from: Morrigans Daughter;199568
I'm pretty sure most inside the Roman church realize this too

 
Long ago, the Roman church made the mistake of saying, "We can't make a mistake." Which may have been their biggest mistake ever....
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Darkhawk

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Re: Holiday Worship.
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2016, 09:15:25 pm »
Quote from: ehbowen;199575
Long ago, the Roman church made the mistake of saying, "We can't make a mistake." Which may have been their biggest mistake ever....

Which has absolutely nothing to do with Christmas, or whether or not it is the literal birthday of Jesus.  That is not Catholic doctrine and to my knowledge never has been, so handwringing about "the Roman church" in this context is specious.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 09:16:12 pm by Darkhawk »
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ehbowen

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Re: Holiday Worship.
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2016, 10:26:02 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;199578
Which has absolutely nothing to do with Christmas, or whether or not it is the literal birthday of Jesus.  That is not Catholic doctrine and to my knowledge never has been, so handwringing about "the Roman church" in this context is specious.


"Thread drift" is not entirely unknown here. For what the Roman church claims regarding its infallibility, you may read paragraphs 889-891 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I do not accept this claim.
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Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!
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Darkhawk

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Re: Holiday Worship.
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2016, 10:31:46 pm »
Quote from: ehbowen;199580
"Thread drift" is not entirely unknown here.


I distinguish "thread drift" from "disingenously attempting to bring up something totally fucking unrelated as it if had any relevance at all to the topic", personally.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

ehbowen

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Re: Holiday Worship.
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2016, 10:36:29 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;199582
I distinguish "thread drift" from "disingenously attempting to bring up something totally fucking unrelated as it if had any relevance at all to the topic", personally.

 
In my opinion, the question of whether a religious organization which claims to stand for God and claims to be infallible actually does stand for God and actually is infallible is of far more critical importance than the actual date upon which its founder was born. I acknowledge that you may not agree.
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Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!
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SunflowerP

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Re: Holiday Worship.
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2016, 11:06:35 pm »
Quote from: ehbowen;199580
"Thread drift" is not entirely unknown here. For what the Roman church claims regarding its infallibility, you may read paragraphs 889-891 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I do not accept this claim.

 
A Reminder:
That's not 'thread drift'. That's taking a point made in the thread, and using it for one's personal, unrelated-to-the-thread, agenda. Since the claims regarding infallibility that you refer to have nothing to do with the Catholic Church's position on the date of Christmas*, your insistence on pursuing the 'infallibility' issue is perilously close to breaking the rule against 'blanket condemnations of... religions'.

(*for what Catholicism has to say about that, you may read the - 1914 edition, for copyright reasons - Catholic Encyclopedia article on 'Christmas', which makes it very clear that, as Morrigan's Daughter and Darkhawk state, the 25 Dec date for Christmas is not a matter of 'infallible' doctrine)

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