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Author Topic: Any pantheists here?  (Read 2728 times)

Eevee

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Any pantheists here?
« on: November 02, 2016, 04:22:16 am »
I discovered the term "pantheism" last night. While I agreed on many aspects of it, I still feel a bit odd about it (could've just been information overload).
I understand there are different perspectives of pantheism (scientific/pagan/agnostic), so I just want to know how you view it.
Do you believe in souls and/or spirits? How do you believe they work?
Or is it like passionate atheism where anything numinous is disregarded?
How do you believe science and psychology works with things like divination or even magic?
Naboo: This is black magic. This is hardcore. Don\'t mess with the occult.
Vince Noir: I thought it was good for you.
Naboo: What?
Vince Noir: Well, you know, good for your digestive system.
Naboo: That\'s Yakult!

EclecticWheel

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Re: Any pantheists here?
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2016, 07:13:29 am »
Quote from: Eevee;198506
I discovered the term "pantheism" last night. While I agreed on many aspects of it, I still feel a bit odd about it (could've just been information overload).
I understand there are different perspectives of pantheism (scientific/pagan/agnostic), so I just want to know how you view it.
Do you believe in souls and/or spirits? How do you believe they work?
Or is it like passionate atheism where anything numinous is disregarded?
How do you believe science and psychology works with things like divination or even magic?

 
How I view it:

The closest thing I can think of to the Source/Ultimate God that I am sure exists is the universe/reality itself.

Souls&Spirits:

I tend to think of the soul as the process of life itself going on in the cells of a physical living creature.  It most broadly involves the process of continuity in flux involved in a life.  While there is a small amount of flux even in nonliving objects such as a book, life depends on flux within continuity to continue to be what it is.  (A flame is alive according to a definition of a philosopher friend of mine that I have been amenable to.)

My main experiences with spirits involve entities that portray themselves as aspects of my psyche.  I tend to think any spirit entity I interact with involves a similar process, although in other cases I am more intentionally contacting them and the connection to my psyche is not as obvious.

We cannot perceive the universe directly: we always live in a subjective reality insofar as we are always within a particular perspective.  For me religious imagery, myth, ritual, and interacting with spiritual entities is a way of slicing the general "mishmash" of everything into something I can make sense of and interact with in a way that is meaningful and beneficial to me.  I can divide the whole into parts to work with (while also working to realize their fundamental oneness).  The use of reason and the scientific method are another way of distinguishing between parts and concepts to gain an understanding of the whole, though this is quite different than religion I think.

When I interact with any such entity (or with the Ultimate God via ritual, prayer, etc.) any response I perceive whether it is visual or audial or more intuitive I consider to be a communication from God because these realities are a part of God/are God itself.  This is God's way of becoming personal, intentional, and conscious.

The Numinous:

I do not disregard it, but I do not frame it in any supernatural perspectives.  The way I've put together all the information I have learned in my mind and worldview, a naturalistic worldview makes the most sense.  When I do not understand an event and I am curious I can turn to what information may be collected by the scientific process or other fields of knowledge.  When it comes to personal experiences I am often content not to attempt an explanation at all.

But my own experiences of the numinous or with spirits do make the most sense to me in psychological perspectives that posit the sense of self is a construction, it is not entirely stable, it is not continuous, and can be fooled in regard to intentionality, memory, etc.

So when I work with God-spiritual entities I am essentially working with myself which is also God.

I rarely use divination and magic.  When I do I tend to see it as working on a psychological level, trying on different perspectives for new ideas, suspending disbelief to deal with anxiety around my goal, and so on.  It can be a way of stopping myself from obsessing over a problem which helps me find a solution or to embrace one once I have one.
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Queen of Swords

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Re: Any pantheists here?
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2016, 11:27:18 pm »
Quote from: Eevee;198506
I discovered the term "pantheism" last night. While I agreed on many aspects of it, I still feel a bit odd about it (could've just been information overload).
I understand there are different perspectives of pantheism (scientific/pagan/agnostic), so I just want to know how you view it.
Do you believe in souls and/or spirits? How do you believe they work?
Or is it like passionate atheism where anything numinous is disregarded?
How do you believe science and psychology works with things like divination or even magic?

 
I'm a pantheist, but I don't know if I can give you many satisfactory answers about what I believe. I am still up in the air about many things, but essentially (for me), the divine is in everything.

There's definitely a kind of pantheism that disregards the numinous. I used to be part of the naturalist pantheist FB group and was very uncomfortable there because of that. It is definitely not my kind of pantheism.

Personally, I get so much joy from transcendental experiences that I might go so far as calling myself a mystic if I spent more time pursuing those experiences. If I had to commit to something, I'd say that I believe in a psychological model of magic. I do not believe that divination is supernatural, at least not the way that I use it. I think that it's possible that spirits and other types of "entities" exist in the same way that we do, this does not strike me as contrary to pantheism.

Eevee

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Re: Any pantheists here?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2016, 12:44:53 am »
Quote from: Queen of Swords;198544
I'm a pantheist, but I don't know if I can give you many satisfactory answers about what I believe. I am still up in the air about many things, but essentially (for me), the divine is in everything.

There's definitely a kind of pantheism that disregards the numinous. I used to be part of the naturalist pantheist FB group and was very uncomfortable there because of that. It is definitely not my kind of pantheism.

Personally, I get so much joy from transcendental experiences that I might go so far as calling myself a mystic if I spent more time pursuing those experiences. If I had to commit to something, I'd say that I believe in a psychological model of magic. I do not believe that divination is supernatural, at least not the way that I use it. I think that it's possible that spirits and other types of "entities" exist in the same way that we do, this does not strike me as contrary to pantheism.


Thanks! :D
Your transcendental experiences intrigue me though. Can you elaborate on what you exactly mean by that?
Naboo: This is black magic. This is hardcore. Don\'t mess with the occult.
Vince Noir: I thought it was good for you.
Naboo: What?
Vince Noir: Well, you know, good for your digestive system.
Naboo: That\'s Yakult!

MeadowRae

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Re: Any pantheists here?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2016, 10:44:49 am »
Quote from: Eevee;198506
I discovered the term "pantheism" last night. While I agreed on many aspects of it, I still feel a bit odd about it (could've just been information overload).
I understand there are different perspectives of pantheism (scientific/pagan/agnostic), so I just want to know how you view it.
Do you believe in souls and/or spirits? How do you believe they work?
Or is it like passionate atheism where anything numinous is disregarded?
How do you believe science and psychology works with things like divination or even magic?


I'm a Pantheist Pagan, mainly because I recognize deities as archetypes/thought forms, but there is an agnosticism there as well, because I feel that I know the Spirit, but I can't understand it on a logical level. I came to pantheism because I stopped asking myself what God was, and instead asked myself what they weren't. I see polarity (Divine Feminine and Masculine/God and Goddess) and paradox as part of that.

In terms of soul, spirit, and magic-I basically believe in The Force. :p No, but really. I believe there is the ether, the energetic soup, floating around us, with infinite possibilities. We have to see these possibilities, interact and put our energy into it, in order for magic to happen. One of my favorite examples of practical magic is the placebo affect. That person has augmented their reality to not include pain. In this way, psychology is a type of magic to me-you're helping people change their reality, how they live their lives. What isn't magical about that?
The genderqueer witch your mother warned you about

ProMultis

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Re: Any pantheists here?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2017, 02:54:18 pm »
Quote from: Eevee;198506
I discovered the term "pantheism" last night. While I agreed on many aspects of it, I still feel a bit odd about it (could've just been information overload).
I understand there are different perspectives of pantheism (scientific/pagan/agnostic), so I just want to know how you view it.
Do you believe in souls and/or spirits? How do you believe they work?
Or is it like passionate atheism where anything numinous is disregarded?
How do you believe science and psychology works with things like divination or even magic?

 
I am a pantheist because I believe Nature is the ultimate reality (self-caused, self-moved, etc). I don't reject "the numinous," but I am agnostic about most things unless I have been able to verify them for myself through personal experience.
"To be free from irrational passion, yet full of love" (Marcus Aurelius).

Pandorica

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Re: Any pantheists here?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2017, 10:19:45 pm »
Quote from: Eevee;198506
I discovered the term "pantheism" last night. While I agreed on many aspects of it, I still feel a bit odd about it (could've just been information overload).
I understand there are different perspectives of pantheism (scientific/pagan/agnostic), so I just want to know how you view it.
Do you believe in souls and/or spirits? How do you believe they work?
Or is it like passionate atheism where anything numinous is disregarded?
How do you believe science and psychology works with things like divination or even magic?

 
:) I'm in the same boat as you at the moment myself. Just found the term which describes the way I've been thinking for a long time, but still feel a little odd with putting a label on it. :confused:
Basically for me I believe there is a cosmic force, 'a great spirit?' which ignited life and creation maybe even guided it a little. It is nothing and everything; it is essentially the universe. duality at its core. Science (for me) is how this world works; while magic is how the next world works but these worlds aren't entirely separate, so one can use magic here and use what knowledge gained here for the spirit world.
I tend to think that the term of Pantheism is completely open to personal interpretation meaning everybody is right in their beliefs of what it means but as google says its the basic belief that the universe is god and god is the universe; everywhere and everything.
Have no idea if that helps you understand it but those are my current thoughts on it...:o
“It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end.”― Leonardo da Vinci

Jainarayan

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Re: Any pantheists here?
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2017, 02:48:33 pm »
Quote from: Eevee;198506
I just want to know how you view it.
Do you believe in souls and/or spirits? How do you believe they work?

 
As a Hindu, my view is somewhat outside the norm of either pantheism or panentheism... it is both.

The Vedas tell us sarvam khalvidam brahma "all this [that we see and experience] is Brahman [the only reality]". In the Bhagavad Gita Krishna says "Know that all beautiful, glorious, and mighty creations spring from but a spark of My splendor. But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe."

So here he is telling us that he, as the supreme Brahman, is outside of the universe. But there is no conflict, because Brahman has two qualities, saguna, with attributes and nirguna, without attributes. He can be both in the universe, transcending it, and he can be immanent, in the universe and part of it. Yes, such is the nature of Hindu philosophy.

As far as souls, there are several Hindu beliefs on the nature of the soul. I personally subscribe to something called vishishtadvaita. It means oneness with qualification, i.e. everything is Brahman, but characterized by multiplicity. Like heat, flame, light from a fire. Take a cup of water from the ocean. Compare it to the ocean itself. No difference except in quantity. The ocean is characterized by billions and trillions of cups of water, but it is all the same "thing". That's the relationship of souls to each other and to Brahman.

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