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Author Topic: Bogus oracle reading put me off  (Read 2126 times)

Eevee

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Bogus oracle reading put me off
« on: October 27, 2016, 08:54:44 am »
Recently I went to a lady for an Oracle reading who I used to go to a long time ago and quite liked back in the day (we're talking like 6+ years ago).
But it was totally bogus angelic fluff.
I feel like I was just another $50 in her pocket as I listened to her vague advice, mostly which wasn't even relevant.
This was my first attempt at reconnecting with a spiritual path of some-sort and it failed. I'm slowly getting back on top of things, but I'm still upset at how that reading went.

I used to own some oracle cards of my own, never dabbling in tarot because it seems too complicated, but Oracle cards will always be vague I presume - essentially every card can somehow relate to whatever you need advice with. But the same can be said for runes and tarot and anything really. I still own 2 sets of runes, but I dont use them anymore. Every book on rune readings have slightly varying translations on runes and that's enough for me to freak out and quit.

So how does it all work exactly? How do you get past the vagueness? How do you find a reader who actually knows what they're doing and isn't in it for the money?

A bogus reading can be pretty damaging, but I think know how to sniff out the BS.
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Jenett

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Re: Bogus oracle reading put me off...
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2016, 10:54:06 am »
(taking your post out of order)

Quote from: Eevee;198147

So how does it all work exactly? How do you get past the vagueness? How do you find a reader who actually knows what they're doing and isn't in it for the money?


The classic answer is recommendations - or these days, taking a look at things like social media can help as well. Being aware of how cold reading works helps a lot, too.

(This post has some examples, but actually, one of the best examples I can recommend for how it works is an episode from a TV series - Leverage's "The Future Job", which you can watch without knowing much about the rest of the series except that it's a heist show where the main group of characters apply leverage of various forms to solve problems that other people won't touch.)

You should also look at how someone presents themselves: do they set appropriate boundaries? (Most professional readers do have limits and things they won't do if they're good and have been reading for a while.) Do they treat their professional reading professionally? Is their communication when setting up the reading clear and in line with what you're hoping for? Do they clearly state what you can expect from a reading and how they view it?

On your end: Do you have a clear idea why you're doing a reading and what you hope to get out of it? Is the person you're thinking of a good fit for that? Is the method a good fit for that? Is there a lot of emotional chaos going on (from your other posts, I assume there is: readings can help with that, but a reading about other things while there's a lot of emotional chaos for you may not be as clear or helpful.) If you are asked for a question, can you frame one that is clear and has a goal? "Tell me about X" can get very vague answers: "What should I pay attention to in order to move forward with Y" gives more direction for useful interpretation.

I did a year forecast Tarot reading with a professional reader (via email) early this month (my birthday's in late September, and while I normally read happily for myself, I've been exploring some different approaches to 'let me figure out what to focus on this year' and wanted an outside perspective).

It's too early to say how accurate what she told me was (the first month she covers is November) but she didn't ask me for lots of detail (birth info, a photo, and three sentences about things I was considering in the next year or wanted more specific timing advice about: mine were fairly general.)

She does, however, lay out the cards she drew, her own conclusions about them, in a couple of places an alternate meaning (especially for the court cards, which can represent both people or concepts), and explained (briefly) how she got to the summary of what to do about it she suggested. All of those give me more things to work with and chew on, even if I disagree with her specific interpretations.  

Quote

I used to own some oracle cards of my own, never dabbling in tarot because it seems too complicated, but Oracle cards will always be vague I presume - essentially every card can somehow relate to whatever you need advice with. But the same can be said for runes and tarot and anything really. I still own 2 sets of runes, but I dont use them anymore. Every book on rune readings have slightly varying translations on runes and that's enough for me to freak out and quit.

 
So, this is a whole other topic, but one of the things about divination tools is that they *aren't* absolute answers, generally: they're ideas, suggestions, inspirations, possibilities. (And especially with runes, well, first, there's several different rune poems from different languages and cultures, even if they have a lot of similarities. And second, translations are going to vary. Part of learning to use runes is figuring how to work with those things being true.)

Have you ever tried pendulum work, though? There have been a couple of recent threads talking about it, if you do some searching or browsing. Pendulums actually do give yes or no (or if you're using a chart, specific phrases), and they also can help a lot with learning how to phrase questions in ways that get you more useful divination in other forms.
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Eevee

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Re: Bogus oracle reading put me off...
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2016, 11:56:26 am »
Quote from: Jenett;198157

You should also look at how someone presents themselves: do they set appropriate boundaries? (Most professional readers do have limits and things they won't do if they're good and have been reading for a while.) Do they treat their professional reading professionally? Is their communication when setting up the reading clear and in line with what you're hoping for? Do they clearly state what you can expect from a reading and how they view it?


It was mostly uncomfortable... I nervously sat down, while she fumbled around with a malfunctioning CD player for like 5 minutes, directly after a previous reading. Then fumbled around with incense.....
I wasn't asked what I expected from a reading, but she did ask what I needed guidance with.
In her defense though, I was an idiot and was intentionally unclear - testing if she will magically pick up on my recent stresses, AND I felt shedding light on my problems may just help her give generic "asshole ex-bf" advice that anyone else can give without the mystical novelty. But I did mention my main problems further into the reading, and she didn't really pay attention to it much, but insisted that I attend a healing session.... being another $50.


Quote
On your end: Do you have a clear idea why you're doing a reading and what you hope to get out of it? Is the person you're thinking of a good fit for that? Is the method a good fit for that? Is there a lot of emotional chaos going on (from your other posts, I assume there is: readings can help with that, but a reading about other things while there's a lot of emotional chaos for you may not be as clear or helpful.)


I'm not into angel readings AT ALL, but I like to keep an open mind. They're using what they're comfortable with to give me advice. I dont think I have to be into angels to get an angel card reading. But the main reason I went to this lady is because I dont know of anyone else, and I can't think of any pagan community here that I can contact, besides, I'm very skeptical of pagan communities here. Every Pagan I've met were somewhat "white trash" edgy old ladies who think they're either fairies or Harry Potter... and my new ideas of spirituality are developing towards a more.... organic/earthy direction - not spellwork, velvet and black cats.
You're spot on with the reason mostly being emotional trauma. Other reasons being that I wanted to simply "find the light" again as I was happiest when I was actively spiritual.


Quote
Have you ever tried pendulum work, though? There have been a couple of recent threads talking about it, if you do some searching or browsing. Pendulums actually do give yes or no (or if you're using a chart, specific phrases), and they also can help a lot with learning how to phrase questions in ways that get you more useful divination in other forms.


Nope! And I have noooooooo idea how they work.
I spent majority of my life thinking they're just really uncomfortable looking pendants.
I also dont trust myself relying on yes/no answers from a swaying rock.
I get very obsessive over things and I'll start questioning things like "should I really do something just because a pendulum told me to?!" then my progressing beliefs will shatter, and I know, I'm a drama queen AND I make no sense.
"Too vague - too straightforward" Gods help me.
Naboo: This is black magic. This is hardcore. Don\'t mess with the occult.
Vince Noir: I thought it was good for you.
Naboo: What?
Vince Noir: Well, you know, good for your digestive system.
Naboo: That\'s Yakult!

Jenett

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Re: Bogus oracle reading put me off...
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2016, 04:30:04 pm »
So, it sounds like this was definitely not a suitable reader for you (or maybe in general) and there's a bunch of things you can do to help yourself avoid that kind of situation again in the future.

One place to start is to understand that there are different approaches to divination. From some of what you've said (I'll get back to pendulums in specific below).

One view is that people who do divination have some sort of special connection to the universe, and can read things you didn't tell them, and know things you don't know, because they're psychic or have special powers, or special connections.

I do believe that sometimes this happens - but I believe that for most people who are telling the truth about it, they won't *assume* it will happen, and won't build a business around it. (This model of divination is also more frequently associated with predatory or ethically questionable behavior in other ways.)

In contrast, I and most of the people I know who use divination, including a number who have done it proessionally, believe that divination is a method of listening to myself and what I know, and using the divination methods to help me examine patterns or ideas or concepts in my life, or related to my question, to bring things I'm probably already aware of at some level into clearer focus.

If someone else is doing the reading for me, they're seeing patterns I probably already know, but they might be able to bring up aspects I wasn't thinking about, or help me see them in a different way.

(I think that flashes of inspiration or intuition are possible, and I believe that sometimes deities or other beings use divination to convey information, but I think those are bonus extras, not the thing to expect every time divination is done.)

Quote from: Eevee;198163

In her defense though, I was an idiot and was intentionally unclear - testing if she will magically pick up on my recent stresses, AND I felt shedding light on my problems may just help her give generic "asshole ex-bf" advice that anyone else can give without the mystical novelty.


So you know, this kind of testing is really not a cool thing to do to readers. A lot of readers will refuse to read for someone who does that - because it's not the way they read (people who take divination the same way I do, rather than purely as an act of psychism) and also because it's pretty rude. It's like going to a doctor, refusing to answer their questions or let them do any tests that give information, and expecting them to fix what's wrong with you.

Quote
But I did mention my main problems further into the reading, and she didn't really pay attention to it much, but insisted that I attend a healing session.... being another $50.


It's hard to tell about the first part of your sentence without having been there - but you're right, the second part is a problem. That's a sign of a reader you shouldn't go back to.

(There are times when a reading may turn up a "Hey, I think this thing would help." but the ethical ones will talk about the specifics of what might help, give you options that don't involve paying them, etc. so you make informed choices.)

Quote
I'm not into angel readings AT ALL, but I like to keep an open mind. They're using what they're comfortable with to give me advice. I dont think I have to be into angels to get an angel card reading.


Yes and no, really?

For me, if it's not a thing I'm into, that's not a thing I'd pay for. That's a thing I'd try out on my own, or with a friend who was into it, or some other low-key method of exploring it.

The other part is that if you're looking for advice that may have a spirtual component, you probably want to consider advice from people who are at least in the same general direction on spirituality as you are. There are some folks who do angel work who fit that for me, but most don't. (And I think all of the ones who do wouldn't use angel cards as a primary divination method. They might for specific reasons, but it wouldn't be the first thing they pulled out.)

Quote
But the main reason I went to this lady is because I dont know of anyone else, and I can't think of any pagan community here that I can contact, besides, I'm very skeptical of pagan communities here.


So, this is also a pretty lousy reason to pick someone for divination. "You're the only person I can find" isn't very flattering, you know? And it's really likely to get you what you got here - a reading that wasn't useful to you, and that was emotionally unsatisfying.

Quote
Every Pagan I've met were somewhat "white trash" edgy old ladies who think they're either fairies or Harry Potter... and my new ideas of spirituality are developing towards a more.... organic/earthy direction - not spellwork, velvet and black cats.


People contain multitudes. (Says the techie religious witch who rarely does spellwork, but does have a black cat...)

Sure, there's a lot of people out there like that. Some of them are *awesome* divination readers. (Some of them are lousy, too.) Some of them may be doing a thing that isn't at all what you want, but they know someone who does the stuff you're interested in, but who isn't easy to find.

The priestess who trained me was someone who was way more over on the overtly witchy side of things in terms of what her house looked like, and there are some of her preferences that are totally not mine, but I also learned a ton from her, and some of that was precisely because her preferences and mine weren't a match.

The other part is how you're finding people - if you're going from people who publically advertise as readers or Pagan shop owners, or other people who are making their money from the Pagan or esoteric or magical community, that's a *tiny* subset of the number of actual Pagans.

If you're looking for people who aren't showy about their religion, you're probably going to need to do a bit more hunting. You may or may not have lots of options, depending on how populated where you live is, or what you can get to, but I'm quite certain there's more out there than the showy folks.

If you're willing to share a general area you're in, like the nearest big town you can get to occasionally, I'd be glad to do some searches and see if I can track down some options for you. I obviously know Australia a lot less well than I know options in places in the US, but I know there's an active Pagan community in a lot of places where it's not obvious.

Quote

You're spot on with the reason mostly being emotional trauma. Other reasons being that I wanted to simply "find the light" again as I was happiest when I was actively spiritual.


This is a thing divination might give some guidance on - *if* you framed it carefully (something like "What should I focus on or pay attention to help me find a spiritual practice that's meaningful and satisfying to me?")

But it's also something that divination might not solve for you. It may be a thing where you just need to try some things, thinking about what's worked for you in the past, what hasn't, what you're willing to try or not willing to try.

You said you want to keep an open mind, but there are a lot of statements in your recent posts with fairly absolute ideas about how things work or should work for you. (And if those things are true for you, that's fine! But you might do better if you look at that disconnect, and either decide not to try stuff you know won't work, or commit to trying stuff you're not sure about, but actively committing to trying it without preconceptions.)

Quote

I also dont trust myself relying on yes/no answers from a swaying rock.

I get very obsessive over things and I'll start questioning things like "should I really do something just because a pendulum told me to?!" then my progressing beliefs will shatter, and I know, I'm a drama queen AND I make no sense.

 
If you're concerned that any answer would shatter your beliefs, then I'd lay off the divination for right now, in any form.

Have you ever heard the story about flipping a coin if you can't decide on something? Assign one thing to heads, one to tails, flip the coin. Pay attention to how you feel about it. If you flip the coin, and you hate the answer, *that's* the information you care about - the coin helped you crystalise or admit your feelings about which one you preferred.

The pendulum can do the same thing - or it can help you hone down to a "Better this thing or that thing?" Again, a lot of it is in how you ask the questions, and what questions you ask.

I'd never use a pendulum to tell me what to do - but I would use it (and did, when I was learning to use one) for "Is today a better day to focus on homework or my Craft training?" (I was working full time, in grad school, and doing pre-initiatory training: a lot of stuff had to get done, and I had to go to work, but the pendulum was handy in which of the other two I'd do better with that night.)

Or "Is X thing blocking me in achieving Y goal?" where I wasn't sure what was getting in the way of something I was trying to do. Once I did the pendulum reading, I'd chew on it for a bit, and then use it to help me make better decisions, not have the pendulum make decisions for me.

Divination is a great tool, but it's also one that can be abused. It's also not the only tool you can use to help yourself figure out what works for you, or why. *Paying* someone for divination, however, unless you've got a pretty good idea why you want to pay the and why that's better than alternatives, probably isn't a good use of your money.
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