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Author Topic: The God Delusion  (Read 3019 times)

Nymree

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The God Delusion
« on: October 24, 2016, 10:40:10 am »
Book by Richard Dawkins, I haven't read it yet but was wondering if anyone else had and if it is a good read. Thoughts?

Sarah

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Re: The God Delusion
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2016, 11:15:07 am »
Quote from: Nymree;197914
Book by Richard Dawkins, I haven't read it yet but was wondering if anyone else had and if it is a good read. Thoughts?

 
I hated it in so many ways for so many reasons. He doesn't understand the point of stories, he doesn't understand what religious communities are for or how they work. He doesn't understand that the people best placed to change negatives things about communities are the people within them. The book has no nuance in it at all.

A much better book is Dan Dennett's  "Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon" I don't agree with  many of his conclusions but its a much more thoughtful, nuanced, and sensible book
Knowing when to use a shovel is what being a witch is all about. Nanny Ogg, Witches Abroad

Jabberwocky

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Re: The God Delusion
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2016, 02:07:49 pm »
Quote from: Nymree;197914
Book by Richard Dawkins, I haven't read it yet but was wondering if anyone else had and if it is a good read. Thoughts?

It's a lazy collection of straw men.  Give me Bertrand Russell any day.

Eagleton puts it better than I could.

Quote
Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology. Card-carrying rationalists like Dawkins, who is the nearest thing to a professional atheist we have had since Bertrand Russell, are in one sense the least well-equipped to understand what they castigate, since they don’t believe there is anything there to be understood, or at least anything worth understanding. This is why they invariably come up with vulgar caricatures of religious faith that would make a first-year theology student wince.

From http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n20/terry-eagleton/lunging-flailing-mispunching
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 02:13:45 pm by Jabberwocky »
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Re: The God Delusion
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2016, 05:59:07 pm »
Quote from: Nymree;197914
Book by Richard Dawkins, I haven't read it yet but was wondering if anyone else had and if it is a good read. Thoughts?

 
Pretty much everything I've seen from all of the Big Name Atheists seems to be framed as an argument against a form (some would say a caricature but I would apply Belledame's Law and say for every social-argument strawman there is a walking scarecrow somewhere) of doctrinaire Christianity, which means it has partial applicability to other Abrahamic monotheisms especially in their more doctrinaire forms.  It's pretty popular for a reason - doctrinaire Christianity and other such things has left a lot of people wounded in various ways - but as an agnostic polytheist, I basically am left with, "... and?" about all the major points I've seen argued or quoted.

It hasn't really gotten me to want to look deeper, because the public-facing arguments are so irrelevant.
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EclecticWheel

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Re: The God Delusion
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2016, 12:34:31 am »
Quote from: Darkhawk;197948
Pretty much everything I've seen from all of the Big Name Atheists seems to be framed as an argument against a form (some would say a caricature but I would apply Belledame's Law and say for every social-argument strawman there is a walking scarecrow somewhere) of doctrinaire Christianity, which means it has partial applicability to other Abrahamic monotheisms especially in their more doctrinaire forms.  It's pretty popular for a reason - doctrinaire Christianity and other such things has left a lot of people wounded in various ways - but as an agnostic polytheist, I basically am left with, "... and?" about all the major points I've seen argued or quoted.
It hasn't really gotten me to want to look deeper, because the public-facing arguments are so irrelevant.

 
I read it once around 5 or 6 years ago.  From what I remember some arguments are interesting, but he is not all that great at arguing them, and his arguments apply only to some forms of monotheistic belief.


And there is enough nuance in most Christian theologies to have some wiggle room in dealing with much of his criticisms which are not so much about atheism, but religion itself.


He conflates the topics.  And then the book is pretty much irrelevant to less doctrinal forms of Christianity, especially those strains of theology and practice that are non-theistic and take a non-literal approach to God and other matters.


A much better book is Atheism Explained, by David Ramsay Steele.  Mostly it deals with monotheistic belief, but polytheism is addressed to some degree.  The author does not believe that religion is the root of all evil, nor is he interested in converting others to atheism.


The book was written simply because he finds the speculation itself enjoyable, and if others wish to read it and are convinced and find any improvement in their lives, great.  If they are not convinced he is not too concerned as he does not believe religion makes people do wicked things.


It really is a much more friendly, enjoyable book, and I think someone with a philosophical background is much more apt to tackling this topic than a scientist who has no such background.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 12:36:13 am by EclecticWheel »
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Sorcha

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Re: The God Delusion
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2017, 05:04:17 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;197948
Pretty much everything I've seen from all of the Big Name Atheists seems to be framed as an argument against a form (some would say a caricature but I would apply Belledame's Law and say for every social-argument strawman there is a walking scarecrow somewhere) of doctrinaire Christianity, which means it has partial applicability to other Abrahamic monotheisms especially in their more doctrinaire forms.  It's pretty popular for a reason - doctrinaire Christianity and other such things has left a lot of people wounded in various ways - but as an agnostic polytheist, I basically am left with, "... and?" about all the major points I've seen argued or quoted.

It hasn't really gotten me to want to look deeper, because the public-facing arguments are so irrelevant.

 
I still consider myself "Christian with a lot of wiggle room" and I rarely find an atheist argument compelling because usually they only work if addressing a specific religion. Otherwise, it's kind of like, "Well, congrats; conservative Baptists are now defeated. Have you tackled the Episcopalians yet? Good luck."

One thing I've let go of in life is a need to "prove" my beliefs. I've never found that you can argue somebody into belief. You can present the issue as you see it, and if they don't find that compelling, you're done.


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