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Author Topic: Losing Interest in Organized Religion  (Read 3016 times)

Demophon

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Losing Interest in Organized Religion
« on: October 11, 2016, 11:36:06 pm »
A lot of factors have been building up for a while that have been turning me away from religion. Lack of satisfaction in my pagan practice, exploring Christianity in the past few years (which ultimately is not satisfying, either), a weird work/school schedule that throws off my devotional routine, and a living situation where it's hard to keep my surroundings as neat and ordered as I would like to make it acceptable for religious practice have contributed to me just wanting to give up on the whole thing.

I guess the major issue right now is that I've experienced a lot of change recently surrounding my Christian community. I was received into the Roman Catholic Church a few months ago after over a year of discernment, and while I don't necessarily regret it, it has been difficult recently. I transferred to a Catholic theology school this year after completing half of a Master of Divinity at an Anglican school, and I'm not liking it so much. I'm tired of hearing about the evils of contraception like there aren't bigger ethical issues, and there is surprisingly much less of an emphasis on liturgy and worship. My Anglican theological college had its issues, but it had a beautiful chapel with daily services the Div students were in charge of organizing, and my Catholic college has very stark modernist architecture, no chapel of its own, and only one weekly service that doesn't seem to draw much participation. I also do kind of miss my high Anglican parish, which was far more reverent, and the liturgy and music much more beautiful than most Catholic churches. There are pros to joining the Catholic Church, but I suppose I'm still settling in, and feeling like the grass is always greener on the other side.

Between my change of Church affiliation, and the character of Christianity in general, I've been feeling disillusioned with religion. When I was received, I felt very enthusiastic about Catholicism as the correct and authentic apostolic faith, and felt very content as I settled into my new parish over the summer. Now that I'm back in school, I don't feel the same way. It's more than missing my old parish and chapel, I think it's being so immersed in the intellectual theology rather than mainly just the community and liturgy of parish life, I'm reaching a point where I don't know if I can buy into it anymore, as it seems like it's just an attempt to rationalize a whole lot of nonsense. But since I'm pretty involved in my parish as an altar server, a volunteer with the RCIA team, and now I'm being trained as a sacristan, it's hard to take some space and sort things out. In terms of paganism, I no longer get anything out of devotion to the deities I had previously followed, and my attempts at pagan practice feel just as empty as Christianity. I still have an interest in things like ancient civilizations, witchcraft, Hinduism, etc., but I don't feel any desire to practice these kinds of things. I still have spiritual yearnings, but these man-made systems aren't satisfying them.

Maybe it's just a phase, or maybe I'm becoming one of those weird "spiritual but not religious" kind of people.

Castus

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Re: Losing Interest in Organized Religion
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2016, 11:41:09 pm »
Quote from: Demophon;197378
Maybe it's just a phase, or maybe I'm becoming one of those weird "spiritual but not religious" kind of people.


I can't help you here, as all of what you've just written is completely foreign to me. But! I wish you luck.
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Re: Losing Interest in Organized Religion
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2016, 09:11:59 am »
Quote from: Demophon;197378

Maybe it's just a phase, or maybe I'm becoming one of those weird "spiritual but not religious" kind of people.

 
What you describe is actually not that uncommon for people after a major religious shift, and there are things you can do that might help. (Or might not, but they're probably worth trying.)

I should probably note here that I went through RCIA as a teenager, and then later through initiatory witchcraft training, and in *both* those places, I was fortunate that this particular thing was explicitly discussed. I'm sorry it hasn't been for you.

Think about it for a minute: you spent a lot of time intensively focusing on learning your new religion. There are classes, and people who are deeply interested in geeking out about the religion who are delighted to talk to you about it. (And that's probably happening in a smaller-group setting where there's some emotional intimacy going on, in the sense of getting closer to a smaller group of individuals as well as interacting in the larger community.)

There are new things to learn and explore, new experiences, and for those of us who like ritual, there are usually some pretty nifty ones. (The Roman Catholic Easter Vigil remains one of my favourite liturgies ever). There's a certain amount of being fussed over, as an individual, with people wanting to answer your questions or helped you, or acting as a mentor.

And then you get to the initiatory point for the next stage, whether that's the Easter Vigil or an initiation, and you come out the other side, and the dishes have to get done, and your work is exhausting, and this other thing you have to do, and a bunch of the people in your larger religious community who you may or may not know or connect with (and if you're Catholic, there's a pretty decent chance that a substantial majority will not be as interested as geeking the religion with you as the people in RCIA were.)

So, there's this strong sense of let-down.

Initiatory religious witchcraft often explicitly embraces it. (It's part of the reason a number of groups have a waiting period before people can consider working towards the next degree: learning to deal with the 'what do I do after the shiny stuff starts being more deliberate effort' is a necessary skill.)

Catholic parishes do things differently, and some of them also do this much better than others.

The RCIA group a good friend went through stayed together as a group for two years following entering the church - not as 'mentors to the next group', but as a small community of people who'd developed a particular relationship with each other who got together to talk, share what was going on, pray, etc. It was less frequent than their RCIA meetings (and more people would skip occasionally if other things in their life came up), but regularly, until it hit a more natural fading point. (And they still get together occasionally, more than five years later, for specific reasons.)

In some parishes, there's more explicit guidance on how to develop a personal religious practice that you find satisfying.

Volunteering to do things (be an altar server, volunteering for the next group of RCIA) is a good thing for the parish, and can certainly be *part* of what you do that's fulfilling religiously for yourself, but it isn't a replacement for building a personal religious practice that is centered on you and your needs.

Some things that may or may not be helpful:
1) Find a parish where daily mass (or at least more than weekly) is a possibility.

If a parish itself isn't a logisitical possibility, is there some other place it's performed (nursing home, convent, etc.) that would let you join them? If there are people at your current school who seem like they like the kind of thing you're looking for, those would be good people to ask, or if you have any kind of ongoing spiritual direction.

2) Consider whether you may want a different parish as your primary parish.

In my immediate area (which is the one I grew up in and became Catholic in), there's a parish about every 10 minutes drive. They sort of roughly alternate more conservative and more progressive, with different takes on music, degree of liturgical bells and smells, and kinds of smaller groups within the parish, particular kinds of prayer, or adult religious education programs. So within about 20 minutes drive, you can have a couple of different options, though obviously it's a bit trickier if you don't drive or have significant time limitations.

Even if that's not the parish where you do everything, having a place where you can find a specific thing that's spiritually nourishing to you, and get to it once or twice a month can sometimes be a big help.

I know some people who make a regular trip to a slightly more distant space - monastery, Catholic retreat center, etc. for similar reasons. My confirmation sponsor, who is a woman of broad spiritual interests, made her 'place I go to mass regularly' home at the parish I was active in, but also regularly went to the Harvard Catholic community events and masses (good religious discussion at an intellectual level that worked for her) with regular visits (every two or three months, at least) to a Trappist monastery about an hour's drive from her home. She's also been an active member of the local progressive Jewish community, partly for her own sake, partly with her late husband.

3) Find spaces that focus on your own internal religious life.

For me, there's a very significant difference in my experience when I am actively helping in ritual (I did music ministry and was a lector most of the time I was Catholic, since being female, there was a whole set of other things I wasn't allowed to do, and my parish didn't allow teenage eucharistic ministers) and being in a ritual space where my only goal was my own interior experience.

Sometimes I got that by going to services where I wasn't doing anything. Sometimes I got that by going to a parish where I wasn't known (when I was in college, and doing a lot of chipping in in my college Catholic community, I'd sometimes go to Mass in the town parish I could walk to. It wasn't my favourite music or take on some things, but it worked for 'let me sit here in Mass and let it wash over me so I can sort things out in my head').

Now I'm a witch and priestess, I get that by going to public rituals where I'm not doing anything, but I also get it by building personal practices that are focused specifically on my own needs.

Have you explored different approaches to prayer and self-examination? There's a lot of potentially rewarding stuff in Ignatian prayer, for example. Some people find picking a particular book of religious interest for personal study and reflection helpful. You might look for podcasts of religious topics or prayer that work for you, or devote time to a particular activity that allows for religious introspection.

Again, if you have any access to spiritual direction, this is a great question for that person.

4) Consider retreats, spiritual direction, etc.

This is a little tricky, both because there are usually some costs and because there's the need to find the right situation, but it sounds like it might be something that could work for you, which is to find spaces in which you can continue to have spiritual growth in a setting that works for you. A lot of retreat communities have some method of active spiritual direction as an option, and it's often possible to develop an relationship with a spiritual director separate from your immediate parish/school/etc. especially if you particularly click with someone.

It's also possible to find this in your own parish or a nearby one, but that takes a bit more exploring of activities / asking people if there's someone who might be interested / etc. It's also possible there may be online spaces (blogs, online communities, etc.) that could be a fit for finding people to talk to / share ideas with / build ongoing conversations with.
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Demophon

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Re: Losing Interest in Organized Religion
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2016, 04:44:25 pm »
Quote from: Castus;197379
I can't help you here, as all of what you've just written is completely foreign to me. But! I wish you luck.


Thanks :)

Quote from: Jenett;197387
What you describe is actually not that uncommon for people after a major religious shift, and there are things you can do that might help. (Or might not, but they're probably worth trying.)

I should probably note here that I went through RCIA as a teenager, and then later through initiatory witchcraft training, and in *both* those places, I was fortunate that this particular thing was explicitly discussed. I'm sorry it hasn't been for you.

Think about it for a minute: you spent a lot of time intensively focusing on learning your new religion. There are classes, and people who are deeply interested in geeking out about the religion who are delighted to talk to you about it. (And that's probably happening in a smaller-group setting where there's some emotional intimacy going on, in the sense of getting closer to a smaller group of individuals as well as interacting in the larger community.)


Good point, it probably is a pretty common thing. I actually didn't have to do the full RCIA program, I guess because I was already a theology student and a practicing Anglican (which is very similar theologically and liturgically to Catholicism), they figured it would be redundant. Especially since I had taken several master's level theology courses with both the priest who received me into the Church and the RCIA director as my instructors. Helping with RCIA now, I think I would have lost my patience if I had to do the whole thing, but I wish I had been more involved somehow just to feel more integrated into the Catholic Church as a whole.

Quote from: Jenett;197387
Volunteering to do things (be an altar server, volunteering for the next group of RCIA) is a good thing for the parish, and can certainly be *part* of what you do that's fulfilling religiously for yourself, but it isn't a replacement for building a personal religious practice that is centered on you and your needs.


I really enjoy being an altar server and sacristan-in-training, mostly for the performance of it. It feels more theatrical than spiritual, as I'm feeling pretty spiritually empty these days.

I'm trying to keep up with private prayer, though I don't have much motivation for it these days. I find it soothing, even if my faith isn't particularly strong these days. I mainly use the same prayer book from my Anglican days, but it's of an Anglo-Catholic orientation, so it's basically the same as a Roman Catholic one, except it's in old English rather than modern English.

Quote from: Jenett;197387
Some things that may or may not be helpful:
1) Find a parish where daily mass (or at least more than weekly) is a possibility.

If a parish itself isn't a logisitical possibility, is there some other place it's performed (nursing home, convent, etc.) that would let you join them? If there are people at your current school who seem like they like the kind of thing you're looking for, those would be good people to ask, or if you have any kind of ongoing spiritual direction.


That could be a good idea. While my school only does liturgy once a week, there are a few Catholic parishes in the area which celebrate Mass several times a day. My parish does daily Mass at 9 AM, which isn't that convenient for me.

Quote from: Jenett;197387
2) Consider whether you may want a different parish as your primary parish.


I think my current parish is the best compromise. It's not as "high church" as I'm used to, but more traditional than most Catholic churches now, and the music isn't as bad as most Catholic churches. Once in a while they still bring out the incense.

I was originally studying to be received into the Catholic Church through the Anglican Ordinariate because I loved the liturgy so much, and they did everything right. They preserved the best of the Book of Common Prayer, sacred choral musical tradition, incense, genuflection, Marian devotions after Mass, etc. Anglo-Catholics don't like to acknowledge Vatican II liturgy reforms, even when they come into communion with the Catholic Church. The Ordinariate is like a Tridentine Mass, but in English. Unfortunately, I found them to be very right-wing, and generally bitter and unpleasant despite the nice liturgy. I ended up going to my current parish instead, which is a more moderate, mainline local Catholic parish that still valued good music and liturgy, at least to a certain extent.

I also like attending a parish run by the Fathers of the Oratory, which also have special permission to use the Extraordinary Form, pre-Vatican II liturgy. I mainly go to Vespers there, as it also tends to be pretty right-wing. One of my reasons for switching to the Catholic Church was that I valued a more edifying community over good liturgy, though clearly I still pine for high church liturgy.

Strangely, I was totally fine and content in my Catholic parish until about a month ago when I went back to my old Anglican parish for Evensong. It's such an unusually beautiful service, especially at this parish, it kind of made me feel like I had come home after being away for too long. I do really miss the Book of Common Prayer, regular use of incense, and even being part of a Church Communion where women can be ordained and LGBT inclusion is mainstream. Sometimes I just wonder what I was thinking when it came to switching to Rome. I guess I felt it was more authentic and unified, and the community much more vital and active. That doesn't seem as important anymore, but now that I've committed to the Roman Church, I don't just want to walk away during times of doubt.

Quote from: Jenett;197387
3) Find spaces that focus on your own internal religious life.

Have you explored different approaches to prayer and self-examination? There's a lot of potentially rewarding stuff in Ignatian prayer, for example. Some people find picking a particular book of religious interest for personal study and reflection helpful. You might look for podcasts of religious topics or prayer that work for you, or devote time to a particular activity that allows for religious introspection.


I've used Ignatian prayers that appear in other prayer books, but I'm not an expert in that form of spirituality. I actually know a lot of Jesuits these days, maybe I'll investigate and ask to join them in some of their practices. (Interesting side note: the local community of Jesuit brothers go to sit in my old Anglican parish during the day when it's empty for private prayer, which I find to be really cool. It has a statue of the Virgin Mary and keeps reserve Sacrament in the tabernacle, so I'm sure Roman Catholics would find it a familiar environment. I just like that even religious orders can look past denominational lines and accept that there are more similarities than differences.)

Quote from: Jenett;197387
Again, if you have any access to spiritual direction, this is a great question for that person.

4) Consider retreats, spiritual direction, etc.

 
Unfortunately I had a spiritual director through my old Anglican theological college, but I decided to stop seeing him once I was received into Catholicism and switched colleges, as I didn't like the idea of having one foot in two different "worlds" (which seems like where I'm headed anyway). I don't have a Catholic spiritual director at the moment.

Thanks for your thoughtful message, Jenett :)

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Re: Losing Interest in Organized Religion
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2016, 06:40:17 pm »
Quote from: Demophon;197429

Good point, it probably is a pretty common thing. I actually didn't have to do the full RCIA program, I guess because I was already a theology student and a practicing Anglican (which is very similar theologically and liturgically to Catholicism), they figured it would be redundant.


Ah, I was wondering if that was the case.

Here's the thing, though. The more I see of people being exempted from this kind of thing (whether it's RCIA or initiatory witchy training, or anything else), the more I think it does them an active disservice.

After all, a big part of becoming part of a new religion isn't the book-knowledge. It's learning about the people in that religion, building a community, making emotional connections, processing your emotional reactions to the stuff that isn't a great fit for you. And I think that's doubly or triply so in Christianity, where the community of the church is a really big factor in how things work and are supposed to work.

How can you be in religious community with people you don't know?

Both in specific terms, like knowing individual people, but also in a broader sense, of 'these are the kinds of people who are in this parish' and 'the range of educational levels is about X, a bit heavier on Y' and 'a bunch of people in the parish care a lot about Z', and 'there's a bunch of young families here, but some people shift to Other Parish when they have teenagers, because the youth programs there are a lot better'. Or whatever other variants - and there are lots - apply.

I did RCIA when I was 13, and I was a bright young 13 year old, and I found a bunch of the "let us tell you how this works" stuff *deeply* boring, either because it was stuff I already knew, or because it was stuff I just picked up fast.

(Short digression for context: My mother was raised Catholic, my father was raised Church of England, he converted to Catholicism to marry my mother, they swapped back to Episcopalianism after my older siblings were born, I came along 15 years later, and when I was about 11, they started being sufficiently dissatisfied with some specific aspects of Episcopalianism to look at alternatives, and we'd done a lot of family discussion about the relevant differences. What i'm saying is that the actual religious difference in practices were about as small as you could get in the mainstream US in the late 80s.)

But our pastor and RCIA team thought it was really important for me to go through the whole thing, and not only that, but to then go through confirmation with my age peers (even though everyone was equally clear I knew all the knowable stuff.) That turned out to be really important for me. I had independent relationships with adults not my parents in RCIA that mattered.

Going through confirmation retreats and classes also turned out to be a big help when I needed emotional support (my father died when I was 15), and I learned that not all important things to know are facts.

Anyway, I've long since come to the conclusion that a religion that doesn't feed the emotional parts of you (and hopefully make them better), the parts you can't put into words, or pin down in knowledge, is probably not going to be a great long-term solution.

(I often effectively describe my approach to witchcraft as 'I am essentially an Air-focused person who would live in my head if I could, and I know that's bad for me, so I need the challenge of Water's emotions and having to learn to deal with them even when I'd rather not.")

Quote
I really enjoy being an altar server and sacristan-in-training, mostly for the performance of it. It feels more theatrical than spiritual, as I'm feeling pretty spiritually empty these days.


That was the thing I was getting at, yeah.

I *loved* doing music ministry, and I got spiritual things out of it, but I always had to keep a bit of my brain focused on what the next thing was, what I needed to be ready to do. I could never lose myself totally in the prayers or even the homily (the part where it was probably most possible). And certainly not in the music, because I was providing that.

Basically: doing things like that is good if you enjoy them, but if that's your only spiritual outlet, that's not going to work long-term probably.

Quote
except it's in old English rather than modern English.


Obligatory pedantic correction, because this is a pervasive and frustrating error. Not Old English. Early modern English, probably (assuming you're talking about something King Jamesish/Shakespearish/etc.)

I'm a medievalist by training, and I can't read Old English. (I can read Middle English, which is the stuff of people like Chaucer, whose dialect survived, and also people like the Pearl Poet, whose dialect didn't survive. Language is awesomely weird, and English more than many. The surviving dialects you can usually guess at, especially if you have a little German and French.)Here's a nice PDF that compares the Lord's Prayer in Old, Middle, Early Modern, and Late Modern English.

Quote
That could be a good idea. While my school only does liturgy once a week, there are a few Catholic parishes in the area which celebrate Mass several times a day. My parish does daily Mass at 9 AM, which isn't that convenient for me.


Even a day or two a week might make a big difference for you, I think. (And I know from experience and conversations that the feel of daily mass often varies a lot parish to parish and time to time, within the confines of the actual ritual requirements.)

Quote

I've used Ignatian prayers that appear in other prayer books, but I'm not an expert in that form of spirituality. I actually know a lot of Jesuits these days, maybe I'll investigate and ask to join them in some of their practices.


If that seems intriguing to you, definitely explore that - I've very much liked the Jesuits I've known, and while they are often not especially high church, they've often had a sense of weight-of-ritual and creating space through spiritual practice that I found often scratched my high ritual desires itch even when it wasn't overtly high ritual.

(For a starting place for the spiritual exercises for Ignatian prayer, this is a good starting site - I've had several people I know do the month long approach, and find it really helpful.)
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Demophon

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Re: Losing Interest in Organized Religion
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2016, 10:38:44 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;197442
Ah, I was wondering if that was the case.

Here's the thing, though. The more I see of people being exempted from this kind of thing (whether it's RCIA or initiatory witchy training, or anything else), the more I think it does them an active disservice.

After all, a big part of becoming part of a new religion isn't the book-knowledge. It's learning about the people in that religion, building a community, making emotional connections, processing your emotional reactions to the stuff that isn't a great fit for you. And I think that's doubly or triply so in Christianity, where the community of the church is a really big factor in how things work and are supposed to work.
Going through confirmation retreats and classes also turned out to be a big help when I needed emotional support (my father died when I was 15), and I learned that not all important things to know are facts.


Yeah, it's true. Community is a big part of it. I started attending Mass at the parish about a year before I was received, as I spent a lot of time on the fence, but I can't really say I met very many people that way.

On the bright side, I do find my Catholic parish to be a more friendly and welcoming place than my previous Anglican parish. They are happy to include me in anything I want to be involved with, and value my strengths and want to help me use them accordingly, which I appreciate. I always felt like the ministry groups at my Anglican parish were very exclusive clubs, and new members weren't really warmly embraced unless they had something very specific that was needed.

Quote from: Jenett;197442
Obligatory pedantic correction, because this is a pervasive and frustrating error. Not Old English. Early modern English, probably (assuming you're talking about something King Jamesish/Shakespearish/etc.)

I'm a medievalist by training, and I can't read Old English. (I can read Middle English, which is the stuff of people like Chaucer, whose dialect survived, and also people like the Pearl Poet, whose dialect didn't survive. Language is awesomely weird, and English more than many. The surviving dialects you can usually guess at, especially if you have a little German and French.)Here's a nice PDF that compares the Lord's Prayer in Old, Middle, Early Modern, and Late Modern English.


Oh sorry. I used a lower-case O for "old" to refer to a non-specific earlier form of English, but it must be frustrating for people who know the proper labels for these phases of the language. Early Modern it is.

Quote from: Jenett;197442
Even a day or two a week might make a big difference for you, I think. (And I know from experience and conversations that the feel of daily mass often varies a lot parish to parish and time to time, within the confines of the actual ritual requirements.)


Yeah, it's worth giving it a try. My old Anglican parish was a downtown Anglo-Catholic parish, so they celebrated the Eucharist daily, and I loved those services because they were high church (no incense on weekdays or anything, but still very reverent and formal) and followed the traditional Prayer Book. Weekday low Mass at mainline Catholic parishes can't really compare, but maybe I can check out the weekday Masses of one of the Oratory parishes.

Not that I'm a total high church snob, but we all have our preferences. Hopefully one day I'll stop comparing everything to what I experienced in my Anglican background.

Quote from: Jenett;197442
If that seems intriguing to you, definitely explore that - I've very much liked the Jesuits I've known, and while they are often not especially high church, they've often had a sense of weight-of-ritual and creating space through spiritual practice that I found often scratched my high ritual desires itch even when it wasn't overtly high ritual.

(For a starting place for the spiritual exercises for Ignatian prayer, this is a good starting site - I've had several people I know do the month long approach, and find it really helpful.)

 
Great, thanks! I also really like the Jesuits I know, and I think they have a very deep spirituality, even if they aren't especially into high liturgy.

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Re: Losing Interest in Organized Religion
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2016, 12:45:57 pm »
Quote from: Demophon;197455
Yeah, it's true. Community is a big part of it. I started attending Mass at the parish about a year before I was received, as I spent a lot of time on the fence, but I can't really say I met very many people that way.

On the bright side, I do find my Catholic parish to be a more friendly and welcoming place than my previous Anglican parish. They are happy to include me in anything I want to be involved with, and value my strengths and want to help me use them accordingly, which I appreciate. I always felt like the ministry groups at my Anglican parish were very exclusive clubs, and new members weren't really warmly embraced unless they had something very specific that was needed.



Oh sorry. I used a lower-case O for "old" to refer to a non-specific earlier form of English, but it must be frustrating for people who know the proper labels for these phases of the language. Early Modern it is.



Yeah, it's worth giving it a try. My old Anglican parish was a downtown Anglo-Catholic parish, so they celebrated the Eucharist daily, and I loved those services because they were high church (no incense on weekdays or anything, but still very reverent and formal) and followed the traditional Prayer Book. Weekday low Mass at mainline Catholic parishes can't really compare, but maybe I can check out the weekday Masses of one of the Oratory parishes.

Not that I'm a total high church snob, but we all have our preferences. Hopefully one day I'll stop comparing everything to what I experienced in my Anglican background.


 
Great, thanks! I also really like the Jesuits I know, and I think they have a very deep spirituality, even if they aren't especially into high liturgy.

 
I went to Rome via Canterbury I fear for the wrong reasons I can now say in retrospect, and, let me tell you, Catholic liturgy was a *shocker* for someone like me coming from an Episcopal parish with altar rails, stained glass, images, chant, glorious Easter vigils, even Latin hymns at times.  I simply could not adapt to '70s folk hymns, minimalistic architecture, or any of it.  It was terribly foreign and cold for me, and I had RCIA directors prying into my sexuality, their favorite subject.  Even in a conservative Anglican parish I was accepted as a gay person, but not in Rome even as a celibate man.  All of that and the ill treatment sent me running back to Anglicanism, and I wonder now during our sacred liturgies what I ever thought I was missing.  My religion wasn't the problem.  I was.

I am not saying here that you shouldn't be where you are now.  Only you could know.  And we all go through dry spells.  Catholic saints write about that.  With reflection and contemplation you may be able to address the issue within yourself.  That's what I did at any rate.
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Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

MamaThistle

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Re: Losing Interest in Organized Religion
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2016, 02:37:42 pm »
Quote from: EclecticWheel;197513
I went to Rome via Canterbury I fear for the wrong reasons I can now say in retrospect, and, let me tell you, Catholic liturgy was a *shocker* for someone like me coming from an Episcopal parish with altar rails, stained glass, images, chant, glorious Easter vigils, even Latin hymns at times.  I simply could not adapt to '70s folk hymns, minimalistic architecture, or any of it.  It was terribly foreign and cold for me, and I had RCIA directors prying into my sexuality, their favorite subject.  Even in a conservative Anglican parish I was accepted as a gay person, but not in Rome even as a celibate man.  All of that and the ill treatment sent me running back to Anglicanism, and I wonder now during our sacred liturgies what I ever thought I was missing.  My religion wasn't the problem.  I was.


I grew up in the Episcopal church and the beautiful stained glass, music, and warmth is what I miss the most. The Episcopal church is also historically LBGTQ friendly. I don't have any experience with the Catholic church, but from what I've heard I'm not surprises you went back.
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Re: Losing Interest in Organized Religion
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2016, 03:28:23 pm »
Quote from: EclecticWheel;197513
I went to Rome via Canterbury I fear for the wrong reasons I can now say in retrospect, and, let me tell you, Catholic liturgy was a *shocker* for someone like me coming from an Episcopal parish with altar rails, stained glass, images, chant, glorious Easter vigils, even Latin hymns at times.  I simply could not adapt to '70s folk hymns, minimalistic architecture, or any of it.  It was terribly foreign and cold for me, and I had RCIA directors prying into my sexuality, their favorite subject.  Even in a conservative Anglican parish I was accepted as a gay person, but not in Rome even as a celibate man.  All of that and the ill treatment sent me running back to Anglicanism, and I wonder now during our sacred liturgies what I ever thought I was missing.  My religion wasn't the problem.  I was.

I am not saying here that you shouldn't be where you are now.  Only you could know.  And we all go through dry spells.  Catholic saints write about that.  With reflection and contemplation you may be able to address the issue within yourself.  That's what I did at any rate.

 
Yeah, I can totally relate to most of that. I went to a Catholic high school even though my parents aren't religious, but it was the best school in the area. Because of that I think I was conditioned to thinking Rome was the only "real" Church, regardless of esthetics. When I started getting into church through my grandmother's Anglican parish, I still had that in my head, no matter how "high" an Anglican parish was. Now that I'm on the other side, it doesn't feel any different, the sacraments don't seem any more special than they were in the Anglican church, I wonder why I bothered to switch.

I guess it was the Ordinariate that lured me in, maintaining a high Anglican liturgy but being in communion with the Holy See. I wanted to be in communion with the largest body of Christians. Although, I was already taking a class with the priest who received me into the Church, and he's very inspiring, both as a teacher and priest, and very progressive. The people I met at my Catholic parish were also very open and accepting, so I haven't experienced the "dark side" of Catholicism firsthand. There are evangelical Anglican parishes near me that are very homophobic, so I think in both Catholicism and Anglicanism, a lot depends on a particular parish. I think the Catholic Church is much more diverse than it gets credit for. There is a Catholic Church here (run by Jesuits!) that is very LGBTQ inclusive, and hosts a monthly Mass especially for the LGBTQ community.

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Re: Losing Interest in Organized Religion
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2016, 12:42:23 am »
Quote from: Demophon;197378

Maybe it's just a phase, or maybe I'm becoming one of those weird "spiritual but not religious" kind of people.

 

Join usss.....JOOOIN UUSSSSS :p

It's ok to have questions, and it's ok to have periods where you're not as spiritually active as you have been in the past. I think it's pretty interesting that you practiced paganism and then switched to catholicism (if I'm understanding you correctly). I've always thought catholic rituals were very pagan in nature. Maybe that's why you enjoy participating in mass?

Speaking from my own experience, I started questioning the church when I was 9, and very quickly decided it wasn't for me. It was that hollow feeling, like you describe. I did a 180 and decided I was an atheist, because I was very angry and naively thought "god" only meant "christian god". But that didn't feel right either, because deep down, I still believed that there was a higher power.  I tried wicca, I tried buddhism, but I just couldn't get myself to follow all those dang rules and regulations. The DOGMA, ugggggh.  And then I thought, why do I have to? There are certain aspects (ritual methods, philosophies, etc) that I find interesting or agree with, and I incorporate them into my beliefs.

When I feel stagnant or lost, I ask he universe for directions. It doesn't take very long to get results. My suggestion to you is to ask for what you need. Don't worry if you can't be specific. Say it out loud, and see what happens.

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