Author Topic: Views on other Religions (Read 2472 times)

kginpur · « **on:** September 12, 2016, 01:36:51 pm »

One of the concepts, as a newbie, that I am having trouble coming to terms with is trying to accept ALL religions even if they are not ones that are right for me. Then taking that and relating it to the Rede “An it harm none, do what ye will.”

With everything going on in the world today (not trying to get political here, so I hope it is ok that I am asking this question) with other religions and people being persecuted for they way they live their lives...how am I supposed to accept the religions of those that are harming others for not believing as they do? I try to live my life to be accepting to all, but these two concepts seem to be throwing me into a whirlwind of confusion as in todays world they are contradicting each other in my head. Please help me find clarity. :confused:

Redfaery · « **Reply #1 on:** September 12, 2016, 01:48:52 pm »

Quote from: kginpur;196139

One of the concepts, as a newbie, that I am having trouble coming to terms with is trying to accept ALL religions even if they are not ones that are right for me. Then taking that and relating it to the Rede “An it harm none, do what ye will.”

With everything going on in the world today (not trying to get political here, so I hope it is ok that I am asking this question) with other religions and people being persecuted for they way they live their lives...how am I supposed to accept the religions of those that are harming others for not believing as they do? I try to live my life to be accepting to all, but these two concepts seem to be throwing me into a whirlwind of confusion as in todays world they are contradicting each other in my head. Please help me find clarity. :confused:

First: no one says you have to follow the rede. Many pagans don't.

Second: are you actively harming people of other faiths? If you're not, then I think you're good Rede-wise.

Jainarayan · « **Reply #2 on:** September 12, 2016, 01:53:14 pm »

Quote from: kginpur;196139

...how am I supposed to accept the religions of those that are harming others for not believing as they do?

It's not the religion, it's the people who claim to follow that religion. It's human nature, people lie, people are hypocrites (no, I'm not a misanthrope

). The religion is no more at fault than the language someone speaks. You can have good and kind people who speak Italian, and evil people who speak Italian. You can use a chainsaw to cut wood, or to cut someone's leg off. It's the person using the chain saw, not the chainsaw that is bad... can't blame the chainsaw.

Redfaery · « **Reply #3 on:** September 12, 2016, 01:54:21 pm »

Quote from: Jainarayan;196142

It's not the religion, it's the people who claim to follow that religion. It's human nature, people lie, people are hypocrites (no, I'm not a misanthrope ). The religion is no more at fault than the language someone speaks. You can have good and kind people who speak Italian, and evil people who speak Italian. You can use a chainsaw to cut wood, or to cut someone's leg off. It's the person using the chain saw, not the chainsaw that is bad... can't blame the chainsaw.

This is a much better answer...

kginpur · « **Reply #4 on:** September 12, 2016, 02:42:38 pm »

Quote from: Jainarayan;196142

It's not the religion, it's the people who claim to follow that religion. It's human nature, people lie, people are hypocrites (no, I'm not a misanthrope ). The religion is no more at fault than the language someone speaks. You can have good and kind people who speak Italian, and evil people who speak Italian. You can use a chainsaw to cut wood, or to cut someone's leg off. It's the person using the chain saw, not the chainsaw that is bad... can't blame the chainsaw.

I agree with everything you have said. I guess where this conversation has focused in on more for me is the issue I am facing......I think it is the fear of the idea the preconceived ideas I have.

One example is my son has friend who is of a different religion. From what I know of him he is a good boy. I do not know his family well though. Due to his religion and our current world events today, I am always feeling as if I need to bend to his religions ways when he is over as not to offend my son's friend (i.e. having a glass of wine or other alcoholic drink which is against his customs)....in my own home. I was even hesitant to let me son have a sleep over at his house. I did allow him to go as I told myself the same thing you mentioned....it is the people not their religion that controls their actions.

How do I move past this? I think that is more of where my troubles lay. I want to move beyond, but I feel stuck by my own (fear?). :ashamed: I want to be accepting, but also aware at the same time. Is that possible?

Noctua · « **Reply #5 on:** September 12, 2016, 03:19:28 pm »

Quote from: kginpur;196145

I agree with everything you have said. I guess where this conversation has focused in on more for me is the issue I am facing......I think it is the fear of the idea the preconceived ideas I have.

One example is my son has friend who is of a different religion. From what I know of him he is a good boy. I do not know his family well though. Due to his religion and our current world events today, I am always feeling as if I need to bend to his religions ways when he is over as not to offend my son's friend (i.e. having a glass of wine or other alcoholic drink which is against his customs)....in my own home. I was even hesitant to let me son have a sleep over at his house. I did allow him to go as I told myself the same thing you mentioned....it is the people not their religion that controls their actions.

How do I move past this? I think that is more of where my troubles lay. I want to move beyond, but I feel stuck by my own (fear?). :ashamed: I want to be accepting, but also aware at the same time. Is that possible?

Being aware of and respectful towards other religions doesn't mean you have to change what you do. It just means you understand what it is they do differently and don't make a big deal about it. Example- one of my husband's friends from school is Muslim. We went to Las Vegas with said friend and had a great time, even though he doesn't drink or gamble. We did lots of eating at buffets, just ogling the sights on the strip, and dancing at clubs (at which I would drink but he would abstain) and if we wanted to go play some games for a couple hours he'd just hang at the pool til we got back together again.

If you're worried about what to do because of your preconceived notions, remember that there's just as much variety in the practice of mainstream religions as there is in the beliefs that fall under the pagan umbrella. If you're unsure what one particular person does/believes, just ask. They'd probably be more than happy to tell you about what they do and believe if you ask with genuine interest, and may even ask about your beliefs in return. I know my friend Ibrahim was extremely fascinated by the practice of Lenten fasting in Catholicism, and we spent a lot of time in compare/contrast between that and Ramadan.

Jenett · « **Reply #6 on:** September 12, 2016, 03:24:02 pm »

Quote from: kginpur;196145

One example is my son has friend who is of a different religion. From what I know of him he is a good boy. I do not know his family well though. Due to his religion and our current world events today, I am always feeling as if I need to bend to his religions ways when he is over as not to offend my son's friend (i.e. having a glass of wine or other alcoholic drink which is against his customs)....in my own home. I was even hesitant to let me son have a sleep over at his house. I did allow him to go as I told myself the same thing you mentioned....it is the people not their religion that controls their actions.

Well, one way around that is to ask some questions, gently and politely. Most reasonable people will understand that the customs in someone else's home may not be the same as the customs in their home.

There's also the question of how actively people keep a specific tradition - for example, people who identify as Jewish fall in *all* sorts of places on the spectrum of what religious food laws they keep and what they don't keep. My former boss who was Mormon didn't drink alcohol (or coffee or soda with caffeine) but had absolutely no problem being around people who did (well, so long as the alcohol was in moderation.) And most people who keep more restrictive customs are perfectly aware that other people do other things, and either learn to be around them in a way they're okay with or avoid them.

So simply saying - if it's a friend of your son's who's likely to be over often - is to say "We have some family customs that I suspect may not be what you're used to. These include having a glass of something alcoholic in the evening, [whatever else]. Is it a problem for you to be around people who are drinking?" or asking "Since you're over a lot, are there foods that you don't eat or things we should avoid serving when you're here?" (as you might do if you knew someone might have food allergies or other specific needs.)

It's probably only worth doing this if it's actually going to affect your son's friend, like a situation where alcohol might be offered (presumably not an issue in the US with people under 21) but it might be more of an issue with, say, caffeine, or specific foods.

Quote

How do I move past this? I think that is more of where my troubles lay. I want to move beyond, but I feel stuck by my own (fear?). :ashamed: I want to be accepting, but also aware at the same time. Is that possible?

In terms of letting your son go to visit other people, that'd be a good time to check with the friend's parents, a "Do you have any house rules or customs I should make sure my son knows about?" (Some families take off their shoes at the door! Some families think that's very weird. It's usually not a religious thing, but people feel strongly about it.)

And you can also sit down with your son and talk about what it's like to be a good guest, and also how to deal with religious pressure he might feel (whether it's intended or not.) Learning how to politely decline something (and how let you know if he needs to be picked up early/etc. because something is making him too uncomfortable) is a really really useful skill for him to learn and have available.

Your local public library probably has some things about this kind of subject (there's often great information in etiquette guides, business travel etiquette, etc.) Again, you don't have to agree with a religion to be a good guest in a household that keeps certain rules that aren't yours - though someone might decide they're not willing to be a guest in that kind of space because it isn't good for them, or not comfortable or whatever.

Jainarayan · « **Reply #7 on:** September 12, 2016, 04:47:17 pm »

Quote from: kginpur;196145

...Due to his religion and our current world events today, I am always feeling as if I need to bend to his religions ways when he is over as not to offend my son's friend (i.e. having a glass of wine or other alcoholic drink which is against his customs)....in my own home. ...

Take this for what it's worth... just my view.

I don't think it's a matter of bending, I think it's a matter of sensibilities and sensitivities, and communication. For example, if I have Jewish or Muslim friends over, I won't serve pork at a sit down meal. But if it's a bbq, I'll let them know before-hand that we'll be having ribs, and I'll try to accommodate them. At least then they have the option of attending or not.

I am Hindu but my family is Roman Catholic (Italian-American). I don't expect them to not serve meatballs (beef), but I expect them to not get snarky if I decline (I have too-high expectations, they get snarky :rolleye:: ).

I firmly believe that as hosts we have an obligation to be good hosts and see to the comfort of our guests. Conversely, I'm obliged to be a good guest and not make demands on my hosts,

I think it's just a matter of give-and-take, communicating, being open about customs.

Darkhawk · « **Reply #8 on:** September 12, 2016, 04:54:31 pm »

Quote from: kginpur;196139

With everything going on in the world today (not trying to get political here, so I hope it is ok that I am asking this question) with other religions and people being persecuted for they way they live their lives...how am I supposed to accept the religions of those that are harming others for not believing as they do?

Look at the many practitioners of those same religions who behave differently, and stop blaming the religion, since it's obviously not the cause of the behaviour.

shadowsiren · « **Reply #9 on:** September 12, 2016, 08:11:37 pm »

Quote from: kginpur;196145

One example is my son has friend who is of a different religion. From what I know of him he is a good boy. I do not know his family well though. Due to his religion and our current world events today, I am always feeling as if I need to bend to his religions ways when he is over as not to offend my son's friend (i.e. having a glass of wine or other alcoholic drink which is against his customs)....in my own home. I was even hesitant to let me son have a sleep over at his house. I did allow him to go as I told myself the same thing you mentioned....it is the people not their religion that controls their actions.

In addition to agreeing with what everyone else has said I just wanted to add my own 2 cents...
I grew up in a very (very!) strict Mormon household and was/have been a member for most of my life. Alcohol, teas (for my very parents these even included herbal teas), coffee, caffeinated sodas, rated R movies, participating in or attending events other than Church on a Sunday... these were all things that I was not permitted to do growing up and that most of my friends were. I never felt that my friends or my friends' families needed to change anything about their home life when I came over just because it was something that I didn't do. I also never felt pressured or offended by being around people or in a home where people believed and did things differently.

When I have people over from other faiths I try to be aware and polite of the stipulations of their beliefs but I'm not going to toss my tea collection in the trash, destroy all my R rated movies, and pretend to be someone I'm not. (Well, unless it's my parents. I do hide the tea. Because my mom is snoopy and would likely throw it out to "save me" if she discovered it. And my tea is precious to me. And I make sure that the shrines don't blatantly look like shrines when they visit... for the same reason. The family boat is one I just do not want to rock right now!) I really like the food allergy analogy that a pp made. I firmly believe that one can be understanding, polite, and even accommodating without compromising - both as a guest and as a host.

Is any of this helping or are we just rehashing the same thing and not getting the spirit of your question?

Faemon · « **Reply #10 on:** September 12, 2016, 08:17:58 pm »

Quote from: kginpur;196139

trying to accept ALL religions even if they are not ones that are right for me.

I really liked the phrase "my rights end where yours begin". It comes with the provision that the defining feature of a human right is that we all have the same ones: right to freedom to pursue happiness, right to privacy, right to perform a ritual such as marriage, right to control one's own body, right to life.

The next provision is that this empowerment, ideally equal empowerment, leads to mutually respected personal boundaries. Person A's pursuit of happiness knowing everything about somebody else's life shouldn't reach to reading Person B's diary: that would be a violation of B's right to privacy. Person C can be very upset that gay marriage is legal, so can make it seem as though gay marriage is a violation of C's right to pursue happiness, but since nobody is banning the straight marriages then C's complaining that a human right has been extended to more people. Which, given the first provision, is not a valid complaint.

So, somebody else's right to practice their religion is okay until you are the unconsenting human sacrifice. I already start complaining at aggressive conversation with the obvious goal of converting me. Hosting a non-alcoholic in your home where you're more comfortable with the occasional drink is probably somewhere in between and depends on how you own it. If the kid tells you in your own home that you're in for a painful afterlife for having a drink, that's rude of the kid; if you give the kid sacramental wine and mention a painful afterlife in store for those who don't drink, that's rude of you. If you both drink what you want, even in front of each other, that ought to be fair, but who decides to complain the loudest is frankly the only determiner I've figured out for what actual consequences would be faced.

Quote

how am I supposed to accept the religions of those that are harming others for not believing as they do? I try to live my life to be accepting to all, but

When harm is almost constantly accompanied by specific religious symbolism and justified with terms unique to a religion, it can seem that there's a systemic connection between a specific religion and harm in general. But if you think of harm as a specific action, and religion as many other different moving parts in a broader space, then I think it naturally becomes more difficult to connect them, because religious people can do other stuff with it too y'know.

But even if you break that down, and maybe notice that your son's friend is probably all right even if the kid's a different person from you or differently acculturated...and not an automatically harmful difference...I'm curious if you would then still strive to be accepting of individual people who do harmful things, regardless of religious affiliation or the language in which they justify that harm? Because that's a philosophical conundrum I've so often seen Rede adherents struggle with, and I can definitely sympathize with that confusion, so I don't want to put out like, "That's a weak, shallowly-described ethic! Throw it away!" Because I'm not your mother. The moral philosophy section of Lierre Keith's The Vegetarian Myth is my favorite breakdown of the practical limits of "harm none" (Keith described herself as pagan without using that exact phrase) but the science and politics segments of the same book were so dubiously argued, and then I found out much later that the author is a transphobic not-so-radical feminist.

kginpur · « **Reply #11 on:** September 13, 2016, 09:02:43 am »

Quote from: shadowsiren;196181

Is any of this helping or are we just rehashing the same thing and not getting the spirit of your question?

Thank you much everyone!! Reading all of your responses has indeed helped tremendously!!! I think I know how I need to get past this. I can be myself and do not have to change my lifestyle at home, but at the same time remain a thoughtful hostess when situations as this arise. I already make sure I have snacks/ food on hand when my son's friend visits that he can have too....so I am good there.

I will also ask in a respectful and polite manner any questions I may have about his beliefs. As far as the stigmatism's society has placed in my head....I will have to readjust my way of thinking and let go of these concepts. Thank you again everyone!!!:lub:

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Author Topic: Views on other Religions (Read 2472 times)

kginpur

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Redfaery

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Redfaery

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