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Author Topic: The Soup What Made Paganism  (Read 7630 times)

Darkhawk

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The Soup What Made Paganism
« on: September 04, 2016, 01:16:54 pm »
As some people know, one of my current mad research projects is trying to describe the pagan religio-magical socio-cultural movement space, or what I casually refer to as The Soup.  (Because there's a lot of stuff in it and it's sort of all melded together, and everything is part of everything.  It is not a very well-blended soup, though, as what you get depends on where you put in your dipper.)

I have been this week tinkering on a graphical representation of my research, and I think I've finally got it to a point where I'm mostly happy with it, so I figured I'd start a thread to share it rather than depend on people finding the links to older versions in other threads.

The current draft is at:
http://sunsinherbranches.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Pagan-Clade-Simplified-Graphical-Soup-v.4.png

The color coding assuming I remembered it right:

- pale blue is for religions that are generally considered "under the pagan umbrella"
- bright blue is for things that are sometimes considered part of the pagan movement and sometimes not
- dark blue is for religions and religious concepts that are not specifically pagan

- pale yellow is for literary, artistic, and creative works
- pale green is for scientific developments
- pale red is magical or occultic concepts or ideas
- orange is for stuff having to do with Nature

- pale purple is specific historical events
- dark purple is political philosophies and movements
- pinky-purple is concrete things one can point at and say "that is a thing"
- vibrant pinky-purple is specific people (mostly individuals, a few groups which are not Organised)

I think that's it.

The lines connect things which are related in some way.  Some of them are 'this thing leads to that thing', some of them are 'this thing is a substantial influence on that thing', some of them are mutual, and so on.  Specifying what the lines mean in specific is way beyond the granularity of this chart. ;)
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Sarah

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Re: The Soup What Made Paganism
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2016, 02:59:50 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;195854


I have been this week tinkering on a graphical representation of my research, and I think I've finally got it to a point where I'm mostly happy with it, so I figured I'd start a thread to share it rather than depend on people finding the links to older versions in other threads.


 
Holy Carp, this is amazing!
Knowing when to use a shovel is what being a witch is all about. Nanny Ogg, Witches Abroad

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Re: The Soup What Made Paganism
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2016, 03:44:28 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;195854


I think that's it.



Wow! You must have really put a lot of thought and work into that because I've never seen anything that specific before.

RecycledBenedict

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Re: The Soup What Made Paganism
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2016, 05:40:22 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;195854
As some people know, one of my current mad research projects (...)


As you might have noticed, I am interested in the same subject matter.

Graphically-wise, however, this chart reminds me of a large piece of paper I use to show how Aeneas is related genealogically to Chaos. It includes all main characters of classical mythology, including the odd ones, like Isis, Diorphos, Cyanippus and Astronoë. It seems like we both like to take notes.

Darkhawk

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Re: The Soup What Made Paganism
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2016, 05:54:27 pm »
Quote from: RecycledBenedict;195860
Graphically-wise, however, this chart reminds me of a large piece of paper I use to show how Aeneas is related genealogically to Chaos. It includes all main characters of classical mythology, including the odd ones, like Isis, Diorphos, Cyanippus and Astronoë. It seems like we both like to take notes.

 
Genealogies at least can usually be expressed with useful directionality!

(The first draft of that started out trying to have some sort of chronology to it and ... no.  Total failure on comprehensibility.  Whoops.)
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

RecycledBenedict

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Re: The Soup What Made Paganism
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2016, 06:03:44 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;195861
Genealogies at least can usually be expressed with useful directionality!


Yes, I put Chaos, Tartarus, Aion and Ananke at the top (Phanes and Nyx in close vicinity to them with some commentary)* and Junius Brutus in the lower right corner.

Quote from: Darkhawk;195861
(The first draft of that started out trying to have some sort of chronology to it and ... no.  Total failure on comprehensibility.  Whoops.)


I can imagine.
 
* i wanted to include several different theogonies, not exclusively Hesiod

RecycledBenedict

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Re: The Soup What Made Paganism
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2016, 06:08:37 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;195854
(...) or what I casually refer to as The Soup.


I am happy to see William Stukeley and Iolo Morganwg in The Soup. They are both very dear to me.

Darkhawk

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Re: The Soup What Made Paganism
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2016, 09:31:16 am »
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Sophia C

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Re: The Soup What Made Paganism
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2016, 10:19:41 am »
Quote from: Darkhawk;195854
The current draft is at:
http://sunsinherbranches.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Pagan-Clade-Simplified-Graphical-Soup-v.4.png

I have been happily staring at this for a few days. It is brilliant. Thank you!
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 10:21:00 am by Naomi J »
"We're all stories, in the end. Make it a good one, eh?"
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Re: The Soup What Made Paganism
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2016, 08:30:25 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;195889
Now it is
http://sunsinherbranches.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Pagan-Clade-Simplified-Graphical-Soup-v.5.png

v.4 has been removed to reduce the odds of confusion. :}


This is beyond awesome and makes me wish I had a bigger screen.

Quite a few connections I didn't know about (Crowley and the Greys? Really?).

I saw that you had 'Futurism' right next to 'Nazis' which made me wonder if Weimar Germany would fit in there, what with Expressionism and the Bauhaus and all ... OK, I was imagining where various 20th century art movements would fit in, they are products/pieces of this soup just as much as paganism is, I'd say. Or maybe I'm biased because I'm an art major.
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Darkhawk

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Re: The Soup What Made Paganism
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2016, 02:12:21 pm »
Quote from: Sefiru;195897
This is beyond awesome and makes me wish I had a bigger screen.

Quite a few connections I didn't know about (Crowley and the Greys? Really?).


One of Crowley's things was drawing art of beings that appeared to him, and there was one called Lam who is connected up with the envisioning of the Greys.

Quote
I saw that you had 'Futurism' right next to 'Nazis' which made me wonder if Weimar Germany would fit in there, what with Expressionism and the Bauhaus and all ... OK, I was imagining where various 20th century art movements would fit in, they are products/pieces of this soup just as much as paganism is, I'd say. Or maybe I'm biased because I'm an art major.

 
Some of the things that wind up next to each other by accident are fascinating, I must say.  I don't have enough dimensions to do this tidily so we get all kinds of juxtapositions.

And yeah, the 20th century art movements are totally in the Soupspace.  (The spreadsheet with my research notes has, uh.  Just in the 20th century, Movements and Art Periods section: last gasp of the Symbolists, the Irish Literary Revival ("Celtic Twilight", which is in the graphic), the Arts and Crafts movement (... maybe that should go in there, huh?  *adds to my notes for v.6*), Existentialists, Phenomenology, Futurism, Modernism, Imagism, Dadaism and Surrealism (on the graphic), the Harlem Renaissance, Nazi art (folded into the "pastoral art" thing in the graphic), the Beat Generation, the Psychedelic Art Movement.  I think I gave up on tracking art periods around then, except when I came across things in specific.  Maybe I should put more of them into the thing, though.  Because relevant and I kind of skipped over a lot except when I had to.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Sefiru

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Re: The Soup What Made Paganism
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2016, 04:56:47 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;195926

And yeah, the 20th century art movements are totally in the Soupspace.
(snip)
Maybe I should put more of them into the thing, though.  Because relevant and I kind of skipped over a lot except when I had to.


With these kinds of web diagrams it's hard to know where to stop sometimes :P I see you already have surrealism and dada on there, I missed that yesterday. BTW, is Gothic literature on your list of things to add in?
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Darkhawk

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Re: The Soup What Made Paganism
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2016, 05:41:36 pm »
Quote from: Sefiru;195927
With these kinds of web diagrams it's hard to know where to stop sometimes :P I see you already have surrealism and dada on there, I missed that yesterday. BTW, is Gothic literature on your list of things to add in?

 
Yeah, one needs Surrealism and Dada to get to the Discordians, though where the Discordians came from is not as clear as things that had a more, well, standard-progression etiology.

... Gothic literature definitely ought to go into the spreadsheet at least.  Specific books are in there, but not the category.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

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Re: The Soup What Made Paganism
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2016, 11:38:46 am »
Quote from: Darkhawk;195889
Now it is
http://sunsinherbranches.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Pagan-Clade-Simplified-Graphical-Soup-v.5.png

v.4 has been removed to reduce the odds of confusion. :}

 
I wish I had enough brain to look over this at the moment. It looks wonderful and complicated and a lot like how I mentally see how history connects in general, except in 2-D format.

...We need futuristic 3-D modeling computers clearly.

Darkhawk

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Re: The Soup What Made Paganism
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2016, 08:58:34 am »
Quote from: Tom;196041
...We need futuristic 3-D modeling computers clearly.

 
The number of times I've said I want, like, Tony Stark's computer system for this is... not small.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

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