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Author Topic: Seidr Magic  (Read 13085 times)

Friendly_Viking

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Seidr Magic
« on: July 21, 2016, 01:19:29 pm »
Hello!

I have been reading about Norse magic called Seidr. I am still a bit confused as to what it is. Does anyone have any information or experience with it?

RecycledBenedict

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Re: Seidr Magic
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2016, 01:26:43 pm »
Quote from: Friendly_Viking;194300
Hello!

I have been reading about Norse magic called Seidr. I am still a bit confused as to what it is. Does anyone have any information or experience with it?

Since sejd has been extinct for 900 years, or so, there exist no sejd today which has been in continuous existence. On the other hand, there exist several different attempts to reconstruct it.

In the 1980s and 1990s, Michael Harner's book The Way of the Shaman influenced groups of people in Sweden who combined Harner's alleged (but called in question) core-shamanism with an Icelandic veneer.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 01:27:20 pm by RecycledBenedict »

Friendly_Viking

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Re: Seidr Magic
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2016, 02:33:09 pm »
Quote from: FraterBenedict;194301
Since sejd has been extinct for 900 years, or so, there exist no sejd today which has been in continuous existence. On the other hand, there exist several different attempts to reconstruct it.

In the 1980s and 1990s, Michael Harner's book The Way of the Shaman influenced groups of people in Sweden who combined Harner's alleged (but called in question) core-shamanism with an Icelandic veneer.

 
Gotcha, so there is no clear source on it. Well that probably explains why I cant find much on it.

RecycledBenedict

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Re: Seidr Magic
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2016, 03:28:26 pm »
Quote from: Friendly_Viking;194302
Gotcha, so there is no clear source on it. Well that probably explains why I cant find much on it.


There exist some Icelandic sources, written down 200 years after sejd had gone extinct.

These sources will tell a reader some thing about what 13th century Icelanders believed sejd to have been when it existed, but that material on its own isn't enough to rebuild an entire modern practice.

RecycledBenedict

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Re: Seidr Magic
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2016, 04:02:35 pm »
Quote from: Friendly_Viking;194302
Gotcha, so there is no clear source on it. Well that probably explains why I cant find much on it.


Do you read Norwegian and/or Swedish? If that is the case, I could direct you to a handful of modern academic studies on different levels. Three are graduation theses, and rather recent. Two are written on research level in the 90s or 00s.

Then there is: Parpola, Asko. (2004). 'Old Norse SEIÐ(R), Finnish SEITA and Saami shamanism', in Etymologie, Entlehnungen und Entwicklungen: Festschrift für Jorma Koivulehto zum 70. Geburtstag, red. af Irma Hyvärinen, Petri Kallio & Jarmo Korhonen, Mémoires de la Société Néophilologique de Helsinki, 64 (Helsinki: Société Néophilologique), p. 235-273.

Friendly_Viking

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Re: Seidr Magic
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2016, 05:27:56 pm »
Quote from: FraterBenedict;194304
Do you read Norwegian and/or Swedish? If that is the case, I could direct you to a handful of modern academic studies on different levels. Three are graduation theses, and rather recent. Two are written on research level in the 90s or 00s.

Then there is: Parpola, Asko. (2004). 'Old Norse SEIÐ(R), Finnish SEITA and Saami shamanism', in Etymologie, Entlehnungen und Entwicklungen: Festschrift für Jorma Koivulehto zum 70. Geburtstag, red. af Irma Hyvärinen, Petri Kallio & Jarmo Korhonen, Mémoires de la Société Néophilologique de Helsinki, 64 (Helsinki: Société Néophilologique), p. 235-273.


unfortunately I do not:( I do appreciate it though

bobthesane

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Re: Seidr Magic
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2016, 09:54:20 pm »
Quote from: Friendly_Viking;194300
Hello!

I have been reading about Norse magic called Seidr. I am still a bit confused as to what it is. Does anyone have any information or experience with it?

As Benedict said, seidh doesn't exist any more. The closest thing we have at all to any knowledge of it would be one single account of an itinerant seidh-woman visiting a village in Greenland. But that gives us nothing of substance: no songs, no dance, no chant, no nothing. It merely says that these things happened.

Basically, anyone who passes what they do off as 'seidh' is performing a modern, new-age construct. Now, if that's your gig, there's nothing wrong with that. But if they start trying to lay claim to it being historically accurate, well, it's not.

Kitta

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Re: Seidr Magic
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2016, 04:41:13 pm »
Quote from: Friendly_Viking;194300
Hello!

I have been reading about Norse magic called Seidr. I am still a bit confused as to what it is. Does anyone have any information or experience with it?

 

So, I see you've gotten the basic "it's gone" response, which is regrettably the case.

I do, however, wonder - Where did the ancestors that practiced Sejd (or any other form of lost "heathen magic" type practices) get that from?  Was it learned from a deity?  Did Heimdall bring it to us?  Or perhaps Freyja taught it to her worshipers?

I don't believe we can call anything anyone currently does by the old names, because at the end of the day there is no way to tell if it's really the same thing, but do you think we could possibly earn that knowledge again?  

What do you think of modern practices of that nature?  I believe there must be some merit afforded new knowledge - with some caution, mind you.  I used to live in a city where 'seidhkonas/sejdkonas' were a dime a dozen, and though I don't know if it's right to use that term, I do wonder if maybe there is room in the modern reality of Asatru for ... Heathen Witches?  Shamans?  I don't know what to call it.  

I'm rambling now, but you get my drift? lol Just food for thought.
"There is no greater a friend one can have than a store of common sense." - Havamal

RecycledBenedict

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Re: Seidr Magic
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2016, 05:10:08 pm »
Quote from: Kitta;194320
I don't believe we can call anything anyone currently does by the old names, because at the end of the day there is no way to tell if it's really the same thing, but do you think we could possibly earn that knowledge again?  (...)  I used to live in a city where 'seidhkonas/sejdkonas' were a dime a dozen, and though I don't know if it's right to use that term, I do wonder if maybe there is room in the modern reality of Asatru for ... Heathen Witches?  Shamans?  I don't know what to call it.


I am not upset over, that some Asatru/Fornsi∂r-practitioners also practice some or another type of Norse-flavoured magic and call it sejd (or equivalent in Icelandic, Norwegian or Danish), but it would be informative for bystanders interested in joining it, to add one or another prefix to the word sejd, for two purposes:

1. In order to be honest about, that each reconstruction is a reconstruction.

2. In order to help people distinguish between different types of reconstruction. Does  Diana Paxson, Stephen Flowers and the publisher norrshaman practice exactly the same thing, for instance?

Kitta

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Re: Seidr Magic
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2016, 06:10:51 pm »
Quote from: FraterBenedict;194321
I am not upset over, that some Asatru/Fornsi∂r-practitioners also practice some or another type of Norse-flavoured magic and call it sejd (or equivalent in Icelandic, Norwegian or Danish), but it would be informative for bystanders interested in joining it, to add one or another prefix to the word sejd, for two purposes:

1. In order to be honest about, that each reconstruction is a reconstruction.

2. In order to help people distinguish between different types of reconstruction. Does  Diana Paxson, Stephen Flowers and the publisher norrshaman practice exactly the same thing, for instance?


I wasn't implying you were upset, just chatting on something I found interesting. :)

I do think it needs to be called something else - I like your idea of a prefix, like Neo-Seidh or something to that effect for an umbrella term, and maybe name the different flavors after the people that came up with it, or maybe by an identifying factor in that practice.

I have, most usually, been a little anti-wand-waving so to speak - I pray, fein, and Blot but you won't see me doing anything that would be comparable to a wiccan 'spell' or anything.  I feel hesitant to accept modern norse magic paradigms (in my own path, I'm not knocking the validity of others' beliefs), but I can't deny that I feel there may be some validity in the idea.  I have yet to hear anything that resonates with me - anything I feel I'd like to practice, at least.

The one thing that does resonate with me are the use of herbs and some healing practices - which I approach on both a spiritual and a practical level.  I am a Nurse, and I study the pharmaceutical benefits of herbs and even the most staunchly scientific observer has to note that whether it's magical energies or 'the placebo effect' born in the subconscious, there is a certain effectiveness to the healing arts that cannot be denied.  

What do you think about modern adaptions?  Even our basic lore sources can be contradictory, so really I have to doubt that any aspect of modern practice is "historically accurate" ... how do you think that effects the authenticity (lacking for a better word) of modern day Heathenry and especially Heathen 'magic?'
"There is no greater a friend one can have than a store of common sense." - Havamal

RecycledBenedict

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Re: Seidr Magic
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2016, 06:58:30 am »
Quote from: Kitta;194324
What do you think about modern adaptions?  Even our basic lore sources can be contradictory, so really I have to doubt that any aspect of modern practice is "historically accurate" ... how do you think that effects the authenticity (lacking for a better word) of modern day Heathenry and especially Heathen 'magic?'


I do not doubt, that many of those who practice some of these reconstructions do have beneficial spiritual experiences. Likewise, with my past in Chaos Magic, I do not doubt, that some of these modern paradigms dressing up in Sejd garb work for some people. Since I am not a practitioner of Fornsi∂r myself, I don't feel, however, that I ought to meddle in someone else's path.

Here in Sweden, Fornsi∂r is the paganism by default, and I have friends in the Fornsi∂r movement, even if I follow other paths myself. We read about Old Norse myths in primary school, and we read Icelandic sagas in Sixth Form (or did - I have no knowledge about how the curriculum may have changed, and I have got the impression that kids are less knowledgeable nowadays).

Seidr

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Re: Seidr Magic
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2016, 11:05:45 am »
Since sejd has been extinct for 900 years, or so, there exist no sejd today which has been in continuous existence. - None?

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOd6A23J_TU[/video]
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 11:06:45 am by Seidr »

Seidr

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Re: Seidr Magic
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2016, 11:31:12 am »
The closest thing we have at all to any knowledge of it would be one single account of an itinerant seidh-woman visiting a village in Greenland. But that gives us nothing of substance: no songs, no dance, no chant, no nothing. It merely says that these things happened. - I have video I could share if you would like.

Basically, anyone who passes what they do off as 'seidh' is performing a modern, new-age construct. - How about accidental Seidr? ... and accidentally, exceptional good at it. I was not practicing any majic when I first found out I could do this.

I think I was some parts but I did not know they ere majic at the time. Im having a terrible time trying to find people to talk to about this and most people are unerved by My clips.

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Re: Seidr Magic
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2016, 11:39:16 am »
Quote from: Seidr;198629


 
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Re: Seidr Magic
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2016, 11:39:36 am »
Quote from: Seidr;198629
Since sejd has been extinct for 900 years, or so, there exist no sejd today which has been in continuous existence. - None?

 
That is why it is called "reconstruction", yes.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

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