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Author Topic: Brexit!  (Read 6296 times)

Dynes Hysbys

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Re: Brexit!
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2016, 12:03:30 pm »
Quote from: Yei;193336
First nail? Supposedly democratic governments have been ignoring what people actually want for .... probably since forever. If there is a slippery slope, we are way down it already.


This would be the first time in the UK that a single issue unequivocal  yes/no vote  would be ignored. We are all used to politicians being "economical with the truth" and breaking election promises.

Dynes Hysbys

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Re: Brexit!
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2016, 12:17:11 pm »
Quote from: Altair;193338


Well *that* didn't drip with condescension.  


It wasn't meant to. But yes I have little time for celebrities. politicians and media types who live in a gilded cocoon and neither know nor care about what the average person thinks feels and goes through in daily life.

Quote from: Altair;193338


My attitude is that the UK will now get what it voted for (just as the US got what it deserved after it re-elected George W. Bush). Its standing in world affairs will be greatly diminished, its economy will suffer greatly (the EU will not be forgiving), and the bill of goods you got sold will evaporate like a mirage. ("Money will pour into the NHS!" Yeah, the Brexit leaders are already admitting that was a lie.)

Assuming there is a UK as we know it for very much longer. Northern Ireland may join with the rest of Ireland (actually, that's an outcome that's long overdue), and Scotland now more than every may go its separate way.

Are these the results you desired?


There was a huge media fuss about the UK stock market collapsing the day that the referendum result was announced. In fact it closed at a HIGHER level than it was at the same time a week earlier. Was this reported? No.

I do not believe for one moment that trade will be badly damaged. The lower £ is actually hugely beneficial for our exports - they are much cheaper than they were and the EU countries themselves will continue to trade with us. There has already been a lot of back tracking on the initial hard stance. They have a lot to lose themselves. We will probably end up with an EFTA type arrangement.

May be an academic point anyway. I do not see the EU surviving in it's current form. This has blown the cracks in it wide open and exposed the festering core.

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Re: Brexit!
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2016, 12:19:12 pm »
Quote from: Dynes Hysbys;193335
If they do that then that's the first nail in the coffin of democracy.

It isn't a popular result in the pagansphere or amongst the chattering classes but it IS the verdict of the majority of the British public who voted. To ignore that is a very slippery slope indeed.


Fiddlesticks. Farage had said that, if he lost by such a small gap, he would agitate for a revote. The other side can do the same.

Let's get things Godwinned (Godwon?) cinematically, shall we?

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mandrina

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Re: Brexit!
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2016, 02:43:07 pm »
Quote from: Chatelaine;193344
Fiddlesticks. Farage had said that, if he lost by such a small gap, he would agitate for a revote. The other side can do the same.

Let's get things Godwinned (Godwon?) cinematically, shall we?


 
Thank you for the warning, I had time to put down my tea.

proper Godwinning.
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Altair

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Re: Brexit!
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2016, 02:52:52 pm »
Quote from: Dynes Hysbys;193343


There was a huge media fuss about the UK stock market collapsing the day that the referendum result was announced. In fact it closed at a HIGHER level than it was at the same time a week earlier. Was this reported? No.

I do not believe for one moment that trade will be badly damaged. The lower £ is actually hugely beneficial for our exports - they are much cheaper than they were and the EU countries themselves will continue to trade with us. There has already been a lot of back tracking on the initial hard stance. They have a lot to lose themselves. We will probably end up with an EFTA type arrangement.

May be an academic point anyway. I do not see the EU surviving in it's current form. This has blown the cracks in it wide open and exposed the festering core.


These seem like fair points. I'm not convinced, but as a Yank and latecomer to this issue, I don't know enough about the situation--which is why I asked for opinions. I'll leave it to your "Remain" countrymen to debate for the other side.
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Re: Brexit!
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2016, 05:08:02 pm »
Quote from: Dynes Hysbys;193342
This would be the first time in the UK that a single issue unequivocal  yes/no vote  would be ignored. We are all used to politicians being "economical with the truth" and breaking election promises.

 
You mean other than the Scottish Devolution Referendum in 1979?

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Re: Brexit!
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2016, 07:08:16 pm »
Quote from: Chatelaine;193344
Let's get things Godwinned (Godwon?) cinematically, shall we?


 
In this case 'Godwinned' translates to, 'Oh my god, it's full of Win!'

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Castus

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Re: Brexit!
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2016, 10:14:12 pm »
Quote from: Altair;193297
What?! No Brexit thread yet?? Brits, I need to know what you think! Will there even be a UK as we know it a year or two from now? An EU? Enquiring American minds want to know!

(Tom asked about it in this thread here, but I figured it merited its own.)

My take: If there's a silver lining, it's that this is a wake-up call to all those who have been saying that President Trump can never happen. It most certainly can--but it won't, if we work hard enough to make sure it doesn't.

 
There was a time when Brexit would have thrilled me, but now I'm left cold. I worry for the monarchy.
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Altair

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Re: Brexit!
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2016, 06:48:19 am »
Quote from: Castus;193362

I worry for the monarchy.


Seriously? Of all the things to worry about with Brexit, yea or nay, this seems the most irrelevant and of least concern. In fact, I haven't heard it voiced until now. What's to worry about?
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
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Re: Brexit!
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2016, 07:24:59 am »
Quote from: Altair;193376
In fact, I haven't heard it voiced until now. What's to worry about?

I personally don't see much to worry about. In fact, this is the first I've heard anyone mention the monarchy in all of this. I don't see whether the UK is in the EU or not in the EU having much effect on the UK monarchy.
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PerditaPickle

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Re: Brexit!
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2016, 11:40:35 am »
Quote from: Altair;193297
If there's a silver lining, it's that this is a wake-up call to all those who have been saying that President Trump can never happen.


I hope you're right there, I sincerely do!
 
Quote from: Jake_;193300
I am devastated, heartbroken, furious, exhausted, nauseated, frightened.

Racist and xenophobic hate crime reports have gone up 57% since the referendum


I concur, and I suspect that that statistic might have increased even more since you posted that comment, sadly.
 
Quote from: Dynes Hysbys;193313
Immigration is a side issue ( although the one that the media concentrates on)


Unfortunately, I strongly believe it was not considered a side issue by the vast majority of those who voted in favour of leaving, I believe it was the main issue (thanks in large part to some of our entirely biased media).  I'm ashamed to say I've got a large number of friends/acquaintances who never, ever normally get off their backsides & vote in local/general elections but they certainly got off them & voted in the referendum solely because they're fed up with immigration (and evidently still hold some of the mildly racist views they inherited unquestioningly from their parents) and that's what I see happened nationally.

Quote from: Altair;193319
And now, this...

Boris Johnson Won’t Seek to Lead Britain

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/world/europe/britain-conservative-party.html

Not that I wanted to see this guy as PM--I hear he's something of a buffoon--but honestly, he throws a grenade to blow everything up, and then runs away and won't take responsibility for cleaning up the mess?


I feel the same way about Cameron, especially now that he's abandoned us to May.  As for Johnson, he plays the buffoon, but I suspect he may be a little smarter than he likes to let on, or else he's got someone smarter pulling his strings.  Yes, as someone said, he's simply waiting for another go-round and then he'll make his move.  I hope the British public see through him at that time.
 
Quote from: RandallS;193326
I have two hopes: First, that the UK Parliament will end up rejecting the result -- as far as I can tell nothing setting up the referendum actually made its results legally binding, but I'm certainly no expert on British constitutional law.


No can do, as I understand it.  Or rather, they wouldn't dare.
 
Quote from: Yei;193336
First nail? Supposedly democratic governments have been ignoring what people actually want for .... probably since forever. If there is a slippery slope, we are way down it already.


I agree with you, particularly this particular Tory government we're still stuck with here in the UK, but not on this particular issue they won't, the turnout was too great and it was far too widely publicised world-round.

For good or for ill, we're Brexiting - I just hope they see some sense at last and cut it out with the d*mned austerity measures, and start actually providing some funding to the police once again.  And please let this British Bill of Rights not be yet another piece of Tory ...work.  I told my husband already to expect me to be attending way more protest marches and demonstrations than ever before over the next few years.
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Castus

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Re: Brexit!
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2016, 03:45:35 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;193377
I personally don't see much to worry about. In fact, this is the first I've heard anyone mention the monarchy in all of this. I don't see whether the UK is in the EU or not in the EU having much effect on the UK monarchy.

 
If Scotland leaves the Union, I'm concerned that -- despite what I believe to be SNP party line -- the monarchy will end up being abolished there. Republicanism and Scottish nationalism have a cosy relationship.
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Redfaery

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Re: Brexit!
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2016, 04:54:19 pm »
Quote from: Castus;193968
If Scotland leaves the Union, I'm concerned that -- despite what I believe to be SNP party line -- the monarchy will end up being abolished there. Republicanism and Scottish nationalism have a cosy relationship.
How tragic that the Scots would want to democratically remove themselves from under an English figurehead.
KARMA: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Castus

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Re: Brexit!
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2016, 09:49:10 pm »
Quote from: Redfaery;193970
How tragic that the Scots would want to democratically remove themselves from under an English figurehead.

 
Quite.
“Castus, meanwhile, goes straight for the bad theology like one of those creepy fish that swims up streams of pee.” — Darkhawk

“Believing in the Lord means you are connected to me no matter when you are poor, sick, or struggling in a relationship. I am always with you. I want you to believe that. The future is uncertain, and much suffering awaits. However, the mission of the believer is to live life doing their best, no matter what the circumstances.” — Ryuho Okawa

Larix

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Re: Brexit!
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2017, 04:46:10 pm »

 
Quite.

Brexit is a misery for Europe.

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