collapse

* Recent Posts

Re: "Christ Is King" by Darkhawk
[Today at 08:31:19 pm]


Re: "Christ Is King" by Darkhawk
[Today at 07:54:40 pm]


Re: "Christ Is King" by Sefiru
[Today at 07:44:49 pm]


Re: "Christ Is King" by Sophia C
[Today at 07:21:31 pm]


Re: "Christ Is King" by SirPalomides
[Today at 07:13:48 pm]

Author Topic: Learning About Different Traditions  (Read 777 times)

GrayEyes

  • Sr. Newbie
  • **
  • Join Date: May 2016
  • Posts: 15
  • Total likes: 3
    • View Profile
Learning About Different Traditions
« on: May 15, 2016, 06:38:00 pm »
I'm coming back to paganism after about four or five years of seriously trying the Catholic thing. It fizzled out sadly instead of failing grandly this time, but suffice it to say, I'm back.

I had never found a fully comfortable place to call my own in paganism, hence a brief foray back toward Catholicism, and I mostly know where I am not comfortable vs where I am happy. For example, I'm deeply uncomfortable with what I see as an intense binarism of Wicca/wicca-influenced practices. I also have fairly strong academic leanings and get easily frustrated with practices/traditions that take Grave's The White Goddess as gospel.

I'm not trying to say that Graves (ie conflation of all or most goddesses into a triple goddess, perhaps of the moon) or binary (ie invoking one god and one goddess) can't be useful to some people. But they are frustrating and cloying to me, at best.

This being said, I've had trouble finding spaces that avoid this, outside of reconstructionist circles. My partner, who belongs to OBOD, encouraged me to look through his stuff/listen to their podcasts... but it feels like more of the same. There's, again, the Wheel of the Year about "the god" being reborn and consort to "the goddess." I get that this is stuff that maybe resonates for a lot of people, but it doesn't for me.

Mostly, before, I read a lot of mythologies and hung out with a larger multifaith group. But I don't really have that option where I am right now and every group around here is for their specific issue... and I miss ritual like a missing limb.

Any advice/help/books that don't do this?

Jenett

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Boston, MA
  • Posts: 3743
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 1235
    • View Profile
    • Seeking: First steps on a path
  • Religion: Initiatory religious witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: Learning About Different Traditions
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2016, 09:13:32 pm »
Quote from: GrayEyes;191089

I'm not trying to say that Graves (ie conflation of all or most goddesses into a triple goddess, perhaps of the moon) or binary (ie invoking one god and one goddess) can't be useful to some people. But they are frustrating and cloying to me, at best.


One of the things to realise is that a lot of times, groups that are doing that conflating are missing a piece from the original sources - which is that British Traditional Wicca focuses on a specific god and goddess, but they're individual deities with their own interests, stories, focus, etc. (In other words, yes, it's binary, but it's like that because they're a specific couple, in a specific relationship with each other, not that that's how every relationship works or should work.)

There are religious witchcraft groups out there that do other things - the trick is finding them. A number work with deities in other patterns. Some do other things than dyads. Some work with specific deities who just don't have that now rather generic model. A fair number work with different deities over the course of different rituals

(The tradition I am a priestess in mostly worked with one pair - decidedly not lovers or in a parent-child relationship) for lunar rituals, one for certain seasonal and initiation rituals (also not lovers, also not parent-child), and then different deities for the other seasonal rituals depending on who was running the ritual, who wrote it, and what we were doing. And then individual people would also develop interactions with individual deities based on their interests.

Sometimes that's one deity. Sometimes it's a pair - the deities I work with in my personal work are lovers. Sometimes it's several different deities who don't necessarily have a strong interaction with each other.)

Anyway, we're definitely not the only small tradition out there who does that, but a lot of those small traditions are not going to have a big obvious presence. If you're willing to share the general area you're in (or could conceivably get to), people may have suggestions about specific places to try investigating.

There are also often multiple approaches to the Wheel of the Year. I don't mind the mythology overlay, but it's usually not terribly relevant to me, so I prefer one that focuses on a cycle of growth and change on a personal level, or one that focuses on specific mythic stories (with deities that may change ritual to ritual). There's a page on my Seeking website (designed for people exploring religious witchcraft) that lays out different options more clearly than I can do in a reply here.

(You might also find the pages on deities useful - learning about a deity and building relationships with a deity - but I've been mulling one about some of the issues you bring up. Not sure when I'll get a chance to write it, though, as my next couple of weeks are complicated at work.)

Quote

Mostly, before, I read a lot of mythologies and hung out with a larger multifaith group. But I don't really have that option where I am right now and every group around here is for their specific issue... and I miss ritual like a missing limb.

 
This is, in some ways, a different issue. My general take is that if I'm really missing ritual with others, then maybe I can find ways to do that, and fill in the gaps in that with other things on my own.

For example, my current actual ritual group is a small handful of people where none of us share a religion (two of us identify as witches, but the other four don't at all, for example), and we might invite half a dozen deities to ritual, but most of what we do together is seasonally focused (in a broad sense) rather than centered on a single mythology, or focused on individual needs. I enjoy that a lot. It doesn't scratch all my ritual itches, but it helps a lot with 'I have people to celebrate the seasonal stuff with' and a lot with 'I want to geek some of my religious and magical stuff with other people in person, with tasty food'.

And when I want to do something else, I do that on my own.

My point is, that it may be useful to you to find people who do some of what you need (so long as there's nothing that's actively a problem for you or for them on your side) and then fill in the other parts.
Seek Knowledge, Find Wisdom: Research help on esoteric and eclectic topics (consulting and other services)

Seeking: first steps on a Pagan path (advice for seekers and people new to Paganism)

RecycledBenedict

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2015
  • Posts: 851
  • Total likes: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Learning About Different Traditions
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2016, 06:26:07 am »
Quote from: GrayEyes;191089
There's, again, the Wheel of the Year about "the god" being reborn and consort to "the goddess."


That sounds more like a Wiccan Wheel of the Year than a Druid one to me? Has OBOD become wiccanized? Wasn't it rather The Sun, than The God, as per Edward Davies and Morien? Have you tried AODA (Ancient Order of Druids in America)? AODA uses, to a certain extent, the myths invented by Revival Druids in the 1790s, but are very clear with the origin of these myths. AODA also permits individual members and local groves to chose their own mythological pattern to apply on the eight festivals, which might be an option for you.

Quote from: GrayEyes;191089
I also have fairly strong academic leanings and get easily frustrated with practices/traditions that take Grave's The White Goddess as gospel.


ADF (Ár nDraíocht Féin) held a well-researched foundation to be important at the time the organization was founded in the 1980s. I have no idea if it has kept up with new developments in research on history of religions. In the 1980s ADF relied on the theories of Professor Dumezil, which are now dated. Each grove in ADF choses one particular ethnical pantheon.

GrayEyes

  • Sr. Newbie
  • **
  • Join Date: May 2016
  • Posts: 15
  • Total likes: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Learning About Different Traditions
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2016, 07:21:34 pm »
Quote from: FraterBenedict;191121
That sounds more like a Wiccan Wheel of the Year than a Druid one to me? Has OBOD become wiccanized? Wasn't it rather The Sun, than The God, as per Edward Davies and Morien? Have you tried AODA (Ancient Order of Druids in America)? AODA uses, to a certain extent, the myths invented by Revival Druids in the 1790s, but are very clear with the origin of these myths. AODA also permits individual members and local groves to chose their own mythological pattern to apply on the eight festivals, which might be an option for you.



ADF (Ár nDraíocht Féin) held a well-researched foundation to be important at the time the organization was founded in the 1980s. I have no idea if it has kept up with new developments in research on history of religions. In the 1980s ADF relied on the theories of Professor Dumezil, which are now dated. Each grove in ADF choses one particular ethnical pantheon.

 
The Wheel of the Year bit - which yes, is currently the most off putting bit - came from the first two or three episodes of the OBOD podcast and gave me a deep pause of, "... but part of the reason I'm looking at this is because Wicca is a poor fit for me."

There is an ADF grove near me (I am in New Jersey, USA, just outside of Philadelphia) that I might contact/see about visiting for rituals.

I'm not inherently opposed to the eight holidays of the year - in fact, I think it provides a reasonable structure, especially if you have people working within different traditions who are coming together. The group I worked with in college did that, with the understanding that each holiday might carry different meaning to each participant and my best friend, who is solitary Wiccan, and I often come together on holidays with the understanding that they present changes of season/time/general holiday feelings without carrying, "This is what it means exactly."

RecycledBenedict

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2015
  • Posts: 851
  • Total likes: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Learning About Different Traditions
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2016, 06:33:13 am »
Quote from: GrayEyes;191144
I'm not inherently opposed to the eight holidays of the year - in fact, I think it provides a reasonable structure, (...) and I often come together on holidays with the understanding that they present changes of season/time/general holiday feelings without carrying, "This is what it means exactly."


I agree on both accounts - the reasonable structure and the lack of universal meaning of any of the festivals besides the seasonal change as such.

In my personal observance of the eight festivals, I apply the following structure, aware of that it is a modern invention:
  • Beltene: Earth awakens. Arrival of Spring. Triumph of the Moon. The genii loci.
  • Alban Heruin: Triumph of the Sun.
  • Lughnasadh: Harvest is occurring. Gratitude for selfless sacrfice, artists, craftpersons, inventors and musicians.
  • Alban Elued: Gratitude for harvest and gratitude in general. Prayers for hunting season.
  • Samhain: Earth goes to rest and symbolic death of the Sun. Remembrance of the departed.
  • Alban Arthuan: Symbolic birth of the Sun.
  • Imbolc: Sheep begin to give birth to lamb. Female ancestors. Matronae.
  • Alban Eiler: Sowing - literally and metaforically.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
7 Replies
4153 Views
Last post April 01, 2012, 01:28:42 pm
by Toine
0 Replies
2568 Views
Last post May 28, 2012, 09:02:28 pm
by RandallS
20 Replies
4542 Views
Last post July 23, 2012, 03:13:57 pm
by Juniperberry
21 Replies
4551 Views
Last post September 17, 2012, 10:59:51 pm
by MattyG
8 Replies
2139 Views
Last post November 12, 2018, 01:38:38 am
by Eastling

Beginner Area

Warning: You are currently in a Beginner Friendly area of the message board.

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 217
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 0

There aren't any users online.

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Allaya, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Ashmire, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

'Up All Night' Coordinator:
Altair

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Chatelaine, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal