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Author Topic: Celtic or Other?  (Read 6650 times)

Cabal

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Celtic or Other?
« on: May 04, 2016, 02:51:03 am »
The question is, do you feel comfortable labeling your practice as Celtic? Or do you choose to label it as say,Gaelic or Cymric? Just wondering how y'all viewed the loaded word Celtic. I personally prefer to use Cymric, because the people of Britain didn't call themselves Celts. Any thoughts or opinions would be great!

Cryfder
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rocquelaire

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Re: Celtic or Other?
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2016, 08:25:44 am »
Quote from: Cryfder;190705
The question is, do you feel comfortable labeling your practice as Celtic? Or do you choose to label it as say,Gaelic or Cymric? Just wondering how y'all viewed the loaded word Celtic. I personally prefer to use Cymric, because the people of Britain didn't call themselves Celts. Any thoughts or opinions would be great!

Cryfder

 
I started out thinking of myself as a Celtic pagan but over the years, as I have researched and explored more, I've been more drawn to Gaelic Polytheist, since I worship primarily Irish and Scottish deities. Or, since I am dedicated to Brighid, perhaps a Brighidine Gaelic Polytheist.

The thing is, I tend to associate the title Gaelic Polytheist with a reconstructionist approach and I am not a reconstructionist, although I find a lot useful about that approach. So I'm not sure I can use that label either.

I don't particularly have a problem with people using the word Celtic, despite it's issues. That's the phrasing that most people are going to come across in the first instance, so it's natural that it would be the phrasing they would turn to. I think, often, as people get deeper into their path, they begin to use more specific terminology, if that makes sense.

Dynes Hysbys

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Re: Celtic or Other?
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2016, 08:58:13 am »
Quote from: Cryfder;190705
The question is, do you feel comfortable labeling your practice as Celtic? Or do you choose to label it as say,Gaelic or Cymric? Just wondering how y'all viewed the loaded word Celtic. I personally prefer to use Cymric, because the people of Britain didn't call themselves Celts. Any thoughts or opinions would be great!

Cryfder


I'm not a reconstructionist  as quite frankly there is little left of the old Welsh lore to build anything from. My practice is rooted deep in the Welsh countryside and the label I use is my user name - dynes hysbys which is how those who practiced before me were generally known.

YungMeatRabbit

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Re: Celtic or Other?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2016, 08:35:12 pm »
Quote from: Cryfder;190705
The question is, do you feel comfortable labeling your practice as Celtic? Or do you choose to label it as say,Gaelic or Cymric? Just wondering how y'all viewed the loaded word Celtic. I personally prefer to use Cymric, because the people of Britain didn't call themselves Celts. Any thoughts or opinions would be great!

Cryfder

 
I prefer to call myself a Gaulish polytheist/Pagan, just because the term "Celtic Pagan" can refer to a bunch of different traditions, including Irish, Welsh, pan-Celtic, etc.

Phouka

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Re: Celtic or Other?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2016, 07:57:53 pm »
Quote from: Cryfder;190705
The question is, do you feel comfortable labeling your practice as Celtic? Or do you choose to label it as say,Gaelic or Cymric? Just wondering how y'all viewed the loaded word Celtic. I personally prefer to use Cymric, because the people of Britain didn't call themselves Celts. Any thoughts or opinions would be great!

Cryfder

 
I call myself an Irish pagan as my Gods are all of the Irish pantheon. I used to be confused by the term Celtic because there are at least seven distinct people's of Celtic culture.

Over the forty years I've been practicing, I've refined my belief system and when Macha called me to be Her priest, I finally got really serious about what I believed. I am now Her priest and also High Priestess of an eclectic coven.

Our coven is part of a 501c Seminary, and as such I am state and Federally recognized as clergy with all the rights and privileges of same. So, as this is what Macha wanted (believe me, I sure didnt!), I'm working my tail off seven days a week revising the book of shadows, curriculum of classes, writing rituals etc., etc.

Didn't mean to be so long winded, but today has been one of THOSE days.

Phouka

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Re: Celtic or Other?
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2016, 07:41:49 pm »
Quote from: Cryfder;190705
The question is, do you feel comfortable labeling your practice as Celtic? Or do you choose to label it as say,Gaelic or Cymric? Just wondering how y'all viewed the loaded word Celtic. I personally prefer to use Cymric, because the people of Britain didn't call themselves Celts. Any thoughts or opinions would be great!

Cryfder

 
I prefer Gaelic, as this is my focus. Celtic refers to so many different cultures, which have a lot of similarities but a lot of differences as well, especially with deities. I also think it helps to have a focus when you are looking for information.
"Think like a wise man but communicate in the language of the people."

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njsquarebear

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Re: Celtic or Other?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2016, 06:39:30 am »
Quote from: rocquelaire;190715
I started out thinking of myself as a Celtic pagan but over the years, as I have researched and explored more, I've been more drawn to Gaelic Polytheist, since I worship primarily Irish and Scottish deities...

...I don't particularly have a problem with people using the word Celtic, despite it's issues. That's the phrasing that most people are going to come across in the first instance, so it's natural that it would be the phrasing they would turn to. I think, often, as people get deeper into their path, they begin to use more specific terminology, if that makes sense.


The above remarks resonated w/ me, as well.  I 'do' sometimes refer to myself as a Celtic Polytheist or a Celtic Panentheist or a Unitarian-Universalist Pagan... it all depends on who I'm with, and what happens to come easily out of my mouth at the moment.  The truth is that after 2-1/2 years of exploration I'm only a tad bit closer to trying to 'define' my path, if that will be at all possible (or of importance, sometimes I wonder?)

I suppose it is easiest to use the word Celtic, as my ancestors came from Ireland, England and Germany so I feel a connection (to different degrees) with the people, culture, mythology etc. of several areas.  I sometimes hope that I can 'zero in' one people-culture-mythology to start to build a more connected practice, as well as to read and study in a more indepth way.  Right now I feel all over the place with my reading - that can be fun and interesting, but sometimes I feel I'm not fully processing what I'm reading.  All in all it would great if I could connect to a particular pantheon... or to a few connected gods.
peace,
Brian (njsquarebear)

Louisvillian

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Re: Celtic or Other?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2016, 04:29:20 am »
Quote from: Cryfder;190705
The question is, do you feel comfortable labeling your practice as Celtic?
I primarily identify with Roman practice, because it encompassed so much, and most of my household practice is based around Roman and Greek gods and goddesses. But I do honour several Celtic deities and heroes, some of them due to personal or mystical experiences, but mostly due to an interest in my heritage and the religion of my ancestors. Many of whom, especially on my mother's side, came from the British Isles--Scotland in particular.

There are parts of my practice that I label as Celtic. I don't entirely go into delineating it into Gaelic, Brythonic, Gallic, et al. because they are drawn from different sources, for different reasons. I have a private cult to Cernunnos, a public worship of Epona, an ancestral cult which entails Irish and Scottish hero-figures and the dead, and I integrate worship of Brigid to my domestic cult as well. But honestly, even though my maternal ancestors are mostly from Scotland, I feel more drawn to Romano-British forms, i.e. Brigantia rather than the Irish literary version of Brigid. Between inscriptions and toponyms, there's evidence that she was worshipped under that name in Gaul, Spain, Britain--including Caledonia.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 04:29:54 am by Louisvillian »

Sophia C

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Re: Celtic or Other?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2016, 07:38:17 am »
Quote from: Cryfder;190705
The question is, do you feel comfortable labeling your practice as Celtic? Or do you choose to label it as say,Gaelic or Cymric? Just wondering how y'all viewed the loaded word Celtic. I personally prefer to use Cymric, because the people of Britain didn't call themselves Celts. Any thoughts or opinions would be great!

Cryfder

 
I primarily say Gaelic, but I have Brythonic polytheism in my practice too. I can't use the term 'Celtic' anymore though - too loaded. I used to call my practice that because it was mixed between Gaelic and other things, but it's too easily misunderstood (especially by people who think I'm not serious in my practice, when I use the term).

At the same time, I think some Pagans who critique 'Celtic' ignore the way that the term has been used by colonised peoples to reclaim their power. It is very much used today. Which raises the question, for me, of how we as Pagans honouring Irish/Welsh/Brythonic (etc) gods actually relate to the cultures of the descendants of their followers. It's an issue that I'm still working through.
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Dam

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Re: Celtic or Other?
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2016, 12:00:28 pm »
Quote from: Cryfder;190705
The question is, do you feel comfortable labeling your practice as Celtic? Or do you choose to label it as say,Gaelic or Cymric? Just wondering how y'all viewed the loaded word Celtic. I personally prefer to use Cymric, because the people of Britain didn't call themselves Celts. Any thoughts or opinions would be great!

Cryfder

I don't follow a Celtic path so my opinion might not have as much bearing as that of others'.

In practice I don't identify my practice as Celtic. I am a heathen, but I would be lying if I didn't acknowledge and respect Celtic deities. Also, large parts of Scottish culture have coloured my practice. I guess that comes with my love for my ancestors, however. I could be a Gaidhlig tinted Heathen at a push. ;)

However, I do identify myself as Celtic outside of practice. My father's side is Scottish and I know a lot about the history of clan and the area that my ancestors lived in. My mother's side is Welsh, although I know much less about their history. I identify myself as a Celt because I have a rather pan-Celtic background. I do have a stronger affinity for my Scottish side, but I was born there.

Edit: I have edited this multiple times now. I hope I'm making sense and not looking like a mad man who got lost and stumbled into a Celtic forum.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 12:08:51 pm by Dam »

Phouka

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Re: Celtic or Other?
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2016, 04:30:03 pm »
Quote from: Cryfder;190705
The question is, do you feel comfortable labeling your practice as Celtic? Or do you choose to label it as say,Gaelic or Cymric? Just wondering how y'all viewed the loaded word Celtic. I personally prefer to use Cymric, because the people of Britain didn't call themselves Celts. Any thoughts or opinions would be great!

Cryfder
our coven is Eclectic Wicca, however I identify in private practice as Irish Pagan. There are too many Celtic cultures.

Phouka

Oíche

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Re: Celtic or Other?
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2016, 11:07:17 am »
Quote from: Naomi J;193847
I primarily say Gaelic, but I have Brythonic polytheism in my practice too. I can't use the term 'Celtic' anymore though - too loaded. I used to call my practice that because it was mixed between Gaelic and other things, but it's too easily misunderstood (especially by people who think I'm not serious in my practice, when I use the term).

At the same time, I think some Pagans who critique 'Celtic' ignore the way that the term has been used by colonised peoples to reclaim their power. It is very much used today. Which raises the question, for me, of how we as Pagans honouring Irish/Welsh/Brythonic (etc) gods actually relate to the cultures of the descendants of their followers. It's an issue that I'm still working through.

 
I also would say Gaelic for many of the reasons above :)
But also because my practice is very much locally based, I only honour Irish gods myself. It seems most natural to me.
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Re: Celtic or Other?
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2016, 05:57:37 am »
Quote from: Cryfder;190705
The question is, do you feel comfortable labeling your practice as Celtic? Or do you choose to label it as say,Gaelic or Cymric? Just wondering how y'all viewed the loaded word Celtic. I personally prefer to use Cymric, because the people of Britain didn't call themselves Celts. Any thoughts or opinions would be great!

Cryfder

I'm just going to jump in here, as someone who is Welsh.

'Cymric' isn't really a word.  It's an Anglicisation of the Welsh word for 'Welsh', i.e. cymraeg.  See here https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Cymric (in plain speak, the English say 'cymric' because they can't pronounce 'cymraeg' properly').  Pronunciation here: http://forvo.com/word/cymraeg/#cy

So, unfortunately, it's totally incorrect to use 'cymric' or 'cymraeg' to mean 'Celtic'.  'Celtic' encompasses Irish, Breton, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Manx and ancient Cumbric.  Unless you only specifically concern yourself with Welsh gods and ways alone, you're probably using 'cymric' incorrectly.  If you want to be using the word your ancestors would have used, it would have been 'cymraeg' spoken properly.

Ancient Britain was divided into many tribes.  In Scotland, there were the Pictish peoples.  In other parts of the country, we don't know a lot about what they called themselves because - typically - these peoples did not record their own history.  Even 'Pict' is probably a Roman word.  Their history was recorded by Roman Britons, so we are left with Latin names for 'Celtic' peoples, which is all a bit confusing.  The Romans, also, didn't exactly paint the 'Celts' fairly so there are a lot of historical inaccuracies and exaggerations even when we use those sources.

Maybe if you let me know a little more about your practise, I could help you to find the right words you are looking for?

Happy to help and answer your questions :)

Part 2:

You can use 'Gaelic' again this word would only apply to Irish, Scottish, and Manx Celtic cultures.  It would not apply to Welsh, Breton, Cornish, or Cumbric cultures.

'Brythonic' or 'Brittonic' is the word we use to describe Welsh, Breton, Cornish, and Cumbric cultures.  You see, we classify them by their language families.  

The Gaelic Celtic cultures above all fall into the Goidelic language family.  The Celts were generally separated into two major language families: Brythonic, and Goidelic (or Brittonic and Gaelic, however you want to see it).  There are as many cultural distinctions between these two families as there are similarities.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 06:07:37 am by winterleaf »

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Re: Celtic or Other?
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2016, 07:29:54 am »
Quote from: winterleaf;194498


 
A Reminder:
Hi, winterleaf,

Our rules  generally prohibit editing after more than 2-3 minutes.  (Correcting  typos or minor mistakes is OK, but don't forget to fill in the "Reason  for Editing" box so that we know what's going on.)  This is because  after that long, several people have already read what you've written,  and they won't see the changes you make.  Because of that, they will  have difficulty following the conversation when someone replies to your  new, updated post.

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winterleaf

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Re: Celtic or Other?
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2016, 08:38:53 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;194531
A Reminder:
Hi, winterleaf,

Our rules  generally prohibit editing after more than 2-3 minutes.

 
You couldn't have said this in a PM?  Isn't there a time-limit you can put on re-editing any way?  I did put in a reason for the edit.  But since no-one has yet replied, the additional information hasn't done harm.

Yes I'd be happy to reply to you privately in future, so why couldn't you tell me this privately?  This doesn't seem very fair and - if anything - is more disruptive to the flow of conversation than my editing ever was.

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