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Author Topic: Fylgja  (Read 5209 times)

Riothamus12

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Fylgja
« on: April 07, 2016, 03:28:17 am »
So I was doing some research today on various concepts most people attribute to "animism" and the perceived common practices related thereto when I happened upon something I had not seen before. For some time now I was looking for a term to describe the sort of connection often associated with the concept of spirit animals, but did not carry a legacy of cultural appropriation. I heard a few things about the Celts, but nothing I could verify, then, I happened upon the concept of Fylgja in a wikipedia article(which I have linked below). Now I know wiki isn't necessarily a great source, but it has citations, and frankly, it can at least help bring ones attention to otherwise obscure pieces of lore. The reverence of beast spirits while not the central aspect of my practice or theology, is something that I firmly believe in and if nothing else, I figured I might at least now have a term that bares some weight. I was wondering if anyone knew more about this concept or what further sources might be useful? Has anyone worked one in such a way?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fylgja
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Re: Fylgja
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2016, 08:09:58 am »
Quote from: Riothamus12;189589
I was wondering if anyone knew more about this concept or what further sources might be useful? Has anyone worked one in such a way?

I've never heard the term before. Perhaps some of our Asatruar members may have.
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Jainarayan

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Re: Fylgja
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2016, 11:49:47 am »
Quote from: Riothamus12;189589
I was wondering if anyone knew more about this concept or what further sources might be useful? Has anyone worked one in such a way?

 
There are many beliefs and writings about fylgjur. The fylgja is one of the five parts of the self in Norse belief. They are líkamr (“vital processes”), the hamr (“shape/form/appearance”), the hugr (“thought”), munr (“desire”), the fylgja (“follower”), and the hamingja (“luck”).

This article goes into much more detail. http://freya.theladyofthelabyrinth.com/?page_id=14 This paragraph seems to sum it up: "The fylgja animal that appears in Norse literature is completely without its own identity and will, a indivisible part of the human it belongs to. They have no mutual influence on each other – the one is just a mirror image of the other. The actions of the fylgja animal is only a reflection of what the human is doing." In that regard, it's not something one would work with, as one would with a god/dess or other entity, because the fylgja is not an independent entity.

Riothamus12

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Re: Fylgja
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2016, 11:57:09 am »
Quote from: Thorbjorn;189616
There are many beliefs and writings about fylgjur. The fylgja is one of the five parts of the self in Norse belief. They are líkamr (“vital processes”), the hamr (“shape/form/appearance”), the hugr (“thought”), munr (“desire”), the fylgja (“follower”), and the hamingja (“luck”).

This article goes into much more detail. http://freya.theladyofthelabyrinth.com/?page_id=14 This paragraph seems to sum it up: "The fylgja animal that appears in Norse literature is completely without its own identity and will, a indivisible part of the human it belongs to. They have no mutual influence on each other – the one is just a mirror image of the other. The actions of the fylgja animal is only a reflection of what the human is doing." In that regard, it's not something one would work with, as one would with a god/dess or other entity, because the fylgja is not an independent entity.

 But could fylgja be used as a sort of connection to work with beast spirits then? I imagine having a connection with them could be spiritually beneficial. Whether or not it is traditional to do so, I must ask, could it be done in your opinion? Furthermore, are there any traditional ways to know what it is?
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Jainarayan

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Re: Fylgja
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2016, 12:27:30 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;189618
But could fylgja be used as a sort of connection to work with beast spirits then?


I wouldn't think so. Unless you have second sight, you can't even know what your fylgja is... human, animal, or even what type of animal. If there were a way to call it forth (not that I think there is), I certainly wouldn't want to, because seeing it foreshadows your death.

Quote
I imagine having a connection with them could be spiritually beneficial. Whether or not it is traditional to do so, I must ask, could it be done in your opinion? Furthermore, are there any traditional ways to know what it is?

 
I think it would be highly dangerous even if there were a way, not that I even know of one. I for one would not even attempt it. This sort of thing comes under seiðr (Wiki article) and Norse Mythology for Smart People article, which should not be undertaken without proper training. Even Óðinn learned seiðr from Freyja. If you are interested in working with spirit animals, I would take a traditional, "tried and true" approach, such as Native American or Siberian Shamanism.

Riothamus12

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Re: Fylgja
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2016, 12:34:33 pm »
Quote from: Thorbjorn;189619
I wouldn't think so. Unless you have second sight, you can't even know what your fylgja is... human, animal, or even what type of animal. If there were a way to call it forth (not that I think there is), I certainly wouldn't want to, because seeing it foreshadows your death.


 
I think it would be highly dangerous even if there were a way, not that I even know of one. I for one would not even attempt it. This sort of thing comes under seiðr (Wiki article) and Norse Mythology for Smart People article, which should not be undertaken without proper training. Even Óðinn learned seiðr from Freyja. If you are interested in working with spirit animals, I would take a traditional, "tried and true" approach, such as Native American or Siberian Shamanism.

 
You see I've been trying to find ways around doing that to avoid cultural appropriation. Then there's the fact that if I were to go ahead with it, nearly all methods out there that one would find a vast amount of information related thereto are blatant misrepresentations of diverse traditions or attribute such things to groups that had no tradition thereof.
https://inthespiritofconversation.wordpress.com/
I started a blog. Feel free to peruse. It's still in it's early stages and I have to write more, so do bare with me if it's all a little basic so far.

Jainarayan

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Re: Fylgja
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2016, 12:56:08 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;189620
You see I've been trying to find ways around doing that to avoid cultural appropriation. Then there's the fact that if I were to go ahead with it, nearly all methods out there that one would find a vast amount of information related thereto are blatant misrepresentations of diverse traditions or attribute such things to groups that had no tradition thereof.

 
That's all very true, and good points. Keep in mind, however, that seiðr is also wholly and uniquely Norse, part of Norse beliefs. To try to practice it outside of the context of Norse beliefs and mythology, by a non-Heathen would also be cultural appropriation.

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Re: Fylgja
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2016, 02:35:56 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;189589
I was wondering if anyone knew more about this concept or what further sources might be useful?

 
Everything I know about it is from Claude Lecouteux's work, and I'm afraid I don't recall which of his books I read about it in.  That's where I'd aim you, though.  I think the best-bet title is Witches, Werewolves, and Fairies: Shapeshifters and Astral Doubles in the Middle Ages.
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Re: Fylgja
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2016, 04:25:35 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;189620
You see I've been trying to find ways around doing that to avoid cultural appropriation. Then there's the fact that if I were to go ahead with it, nearly all methods out there that one would find a vast amount of information related thereto are blatant misrepresentations of diverse traditions or attribute such things to groups that had no tradition thereof.


Forgive me, because I am likely lacking in understanding as to why the concept of "spirit animals" is important to you, so please take anything I say with a grain of salt.

Do you need a specific spiritual concept or technique to feel a connection to a certain species? I think humans in every time and place have felt connections to certain animals, and there is nothing to prevent you from seeing a particular species of animal as important to you.

For myself, Crows and Ravens are important - I am excited to see them, I enjoy observing them, I even say a short little internal prayer to these Dinosaurs when they are around. I appreciate the role they play in Germanic traditions, BUT, and perhaps this is where we diverge, I do not expect any special treatment FROM them. (Well, there is a part of me that would like to think that in some strange way they may regard me with an ounce more of interest than with many other people, but I don't really have any way of verifying that).

Are you seeking a relationship with a species of animal which would involve, on their part, some additional regard or concern for you?
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Lilirin

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Re: Fylgja
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2016, 12:35:57 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;189589
So I was doing some research today on various concepts most people attribute to "animism" and the perceived common practices related thereto when I happened upon something I had not seen before. For some time now I was looking for a term to describe the sort of connection often associated with the concept of spirit animals, but did not carry a legacy of cultural appropriation. I heard a few things about the Celts, but nothing I could verify, then, I happened upon the concept of Fylgja in a wikipedia article(which I have linked below). Now I know wiki isn't necessarily a great source, but it has citations, and frankly, it can at least help bring ones attention to otherwise obscure pieces of lore. The reverence of beast spirits while not the central aspect of my practice or theology, is something that I firmly believe in and if nothing else, I figured I might at least now have a term that bares some weight. I was wondering if anyone knew more about this concept or what further sources might be useful? Has anyone worked one in such a way?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fylgja

 Ah, yeah my Heathen friend mentioned this and we compared, and the Aztec concept of nahualli (modern, nagual or nagualism.) is just about the same. He uses the term "fetch", which is uncommon old term for familiar.  I tend to say nahualli at times, because I am so used to working with it from that specific cultural lenses.

fetch, familiar, and spirit animal work, I guess.

Sorry, I mean, I can ask my friend for academic sources. He probably has them.

Jenett

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Re: Fylgja
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2016, 01:20:59 pm »
Quote from: Lilirin;190157
He uses the term "fetch", which is uncommon old term for familiar.  I tend to say nahualli at times, because I am so used to working with it from that specific cultural lenses.

 
For what it's worth, fetch is a term that is used moderately commonly in some strands of witchcraft work, but it is something decidedly distinct from a familiar or spirit animal: they're not equivalent terms in my usage or those of a number of other people who use it.

(Specifically, a fetch is a created entity, while a familiar or spirit animal has an origin of their own, separate from the people working with it.)
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Re: Fylgja
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2016, 01:47:40 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;190164
For what it's worth, fetch is a term that is used moderately commonly in some strands of witchcraft work, but it is something decidedly distinct from a familiar or spirit animal: they're not equivalent terms in my usage or those of a number of other people who use it.

(Specifically, a fetch is a created entity, while a familiar or spirit animal has an origin of their own, separate from the people working with it.)

 
And this is also not the usage that is reasonably common in the strands of witchcraft work that I am training in, in which the fetch is one of an individual person's souls, and thus arguably more similar to fylgja, though it is still a distinct concept.
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Re: Fylgja
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2016, 02:00:28 pm »
Quote from: Lilirin;190157
Ah, yeah my Heathen friend mentioned this and we compared, and the Aztec concept of nahualli (modern, nagual or nagualism.) is just about the same. He uses the term "fetch", which is uncommon old term for familiar.  I tend to say nahualli at times, because I am so used to working with it from that specific cultural lenses.

fetch, familiar, and spirit animal work, I guess.

Sorry, I mean, I can ask my friend for academic sources. He probably has them.

As far as my understanding of the fetch goes (in the folkloric sense, not in Feri since I don't know anything much about that tradition), it has nothing at all to do with animals or animal spirits. The fetch has way more to do with things like doppelgangers.

Edit to add: well dang...the previous two posts did a much better job than I did. darn my unstable internet.
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Riothamus12

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Re: Fylgja
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2016, 07:40:16 pm »
Quote from: Megatherium;189630
Forgive me, because I am likely lacking in understanding as to why the concept of "spirit animals" is important to you, so please take anything I say with a grain of salt.

Do you need a specific spiritual concept or technique to feel a connection to a certain species? I think humans in every time and place have felt connections to certain animals, and there is nothing to prevent you from seeing a particular species of animal as important to you.

For myself, Crows and Ravens are important - I am excited to see them, I enjoy observing them, I even say a short little internal prayer to these Dinosaurs when they are around. I appreciate the role they play in Germanic traditions, BUT, and perhaps this is where we diverge, I do not expect any special treatment FROM them. (Well, there is a part of me that would like to think that in some strange way they may regard me with an ounce more of interest than with many other people, but I don't really have any way of verifying that).

Are you seeking a relationship with a species of animal which would involve, on their part, some additional regard or concern for you?

There's a huge divergence. You see, this is about a spiritual connection to a spirit host that is connected to these beasts. A relationship with which is one of reverence and guidance. This is not anything like a familiar which implies servitude. No these spirits are beings one bows down to. A certain connection with the beast spirits that helps to guide one and understand their place in the world.

Furthermore, as cliche as it sounds, it seems the wolf has been guiding my step in some form. If my life were a film, they would be a motif that shows up all through out in one sense or another even when I do not go seeking things related to it. My grandmothers maiden name even translates to the wolf. I don't know much about the Magyar traditions in general and information seems either woefully lacking, untranslated, or not widely available, so I cannot say much about the significance of the wolf in Magyar culture. I doubt that they had "totems" or something resembling the concept of spirit animals, but it's interesting to say the least. It seems as if there is a connection there along with one to the horse and the otter. I've been looking for a term to describe this relationship that does not carry a legacy of bastardization or appropriation but none seem particularly satisfactory. I thought if I could find something, especially something related to my ancestors it could help and perhaps reveal certain methods of communing with them that I could utilize to further my relationship with the sacred. My attempts at research however have turned up a wealth of information, but not exactly what I seek. The wisdom and insight I was able to unearth was most certainly useful, but it doesn't solve my dilemma either. I've taken to using the term tutelary beasts for the time being.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 07:42:45 pm by Riothamus12 »
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Re: Fylgja
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2016, 01:32:05 am »
Quote from: Riothamus12;190537
I've taken to using the term tutelary beasts for the time being.

 
'Tutelary beasts' is an excellent general term; I think I'll adopt it. Thank you!

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