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Author Topic: New to Celtic Paganism -- Need a lil Help  (Read 5195 times)

ubercraft100

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New to Celtic Paganism -- Need a lil Help
« on: March 29, 2016, 04:51:57 pm »
Hey guys, so I made a most on the thread for beginner pagans and someone told me there was a Celtic SIG group so here I am!!! So I tried Wicca for a long while, about a year or so, and found that I indefinite with Celtic pagan traditions, music, and gods way more than Wiccan dual God/goddess idea. I also really love large arrays of interconnected gods and I feel like Celtic paganism has everything I've ever wanted in a religion! I'm so excited to dive into this, but I have no idea where to start. I've looked at a few books, but many just talk about what paganism is, what the Celtic people believed and stuff like that. They were all super interesting, but I was wondering if anyone on this thread know, practically, how to actually get started

I.E.

Should I make shrines, should I devote myself to a certain God/goddess, are there any rituals I need to know or do, is there a Celtic version of the wheel of the year. What info and practices Can I take over from Wicca (which I already know) and use in Celtic paganism.

All of these books have pretty much failed to give any context to these questions and many more. So if anybody knows how to get started, that would be awesome :)

RecycledBenedict

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Re: New to Celtic Paganism -- Need a lil Help
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2016, 07:18:41 pm »
Quote from: ubercraft100;189168
(...) is there a Celtic version of the wheel of the year.

The Wheel of the Year, under that name and as it is known in our time, is a modern construct from the 1950s. A useful construct for some persons (myself included), but not a reconstruction of any particular religious culture in the past.

Some sort of Imbolc, Beltane (not sure about spelling), Lughnasadh and Samhain probably were celebrated by the Iron Age Irish, but we don't know anything about how. We can't be sure these four festivals (under other names) were pan-Celtic.

They fall slightly later in the year as the four Iron Age Norse quarter-festivals: Midwinter (late January), Victory blót (late April), Old Midsummer (late July)* and Elves blót (late October), but there might possibly be some sort of common Indo-European roots of these sets of four festivals, or the similarities could have been introduced at a later stage of history. Celts and Norsepersons kept in contact to each other both by trade and warfare, and the languages of both are Indo-European.

Winter solstice seem to have been important in Ireland and in Britain during the Stone Age, but we have, as far as I know, no sources attesting that Winter solstice remained important among Iron Age Celts.

Modern revival-Druids in the 1700s found the Equinoxes very important, but it is unlikely that they were deemed important by Iron Age Celts.

The Coligny Calendar is an ancient Celtic calendar from Gaul. The problem with it, is that is fragmentary and no one is really sure which month corresponds to our modern gregorian months. Formerly the month Samonios was presumed to have something to do with Samhain, but that theory is now under deep suspicion, and the archaeologists tend to think that Samonios = June-July.

* There's a modern Midsummer festival in Sweden in late June. It has only the name in common with the old Norse one. The Icelandic calendar still have Midsummer in late July.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 07:20:34 pm by RecycledBenedict »

RecycledBenedict

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Re: New to Celtic Paganism -- Need a lil Help
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2016, 07:36:34 pm »
Quote from: ubercraft100;189168
What info and practices Can I take over from Wicca (which I already know) and use in Celtic paganism.

Almost nothing, if strict reconstruction is your aim.

I believe that it is easier to bring a few practices from Wicca over to British-style Druidry. The Wiccans borrowed a few ideas from the Modern Druids (and ceremonial magicians) to begin with. But most forms of Druidry are not Celtic Reconstructionism at all. Order of Whiteoak and Henge of Keltria probably comes closest, but they are still less strict, than what IMBAS (now defunct) tried to be several years ago. Since I don't read French sufficiently, I am unable to inform you about Celtic Reconstructionism in France and Belgium, but it does exist.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 07:38:51 pm by RecycledBenedict »

HarpingHawke

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Re: New to Celtic Paganism -- Need a lil Help
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2016, 02:38:19 am »
Quote from: ubercraft100;189168


 
FraterB supplied some awesome points about festivals, so I won't be covering that, and this post is by no means comprehensive, but:

One thing to remember is that there's actually no "Celtic" monolith. The 101 books generally aren't the best source to go to, since they tend to do a lot of talking about "what the Celts believed" when even within Celtic nations, religion was not uniform. Pan-Celticism isn't a good idea!

Look into Gaelic/Irish/Brythonic/Gaulish/etc polytheism and see where you want to go from there. You'll likely have to look through some scholarly articles, which may require a subscription to a database like JSTOR; that's expensive, so see if your local library already has one. Libraries are honestly amazing. People need to use them more.

Devotion to a god or goddess is *never* required for worship *or* shrine-making. Devotion is kind of a huge thing. It's...not necessarily marriage, but is of similar significance. (IME at least).

There are some things required for polytheism (like believing in many gods) but there aren't a lot of "shoulds" involved. That's not me saying you can disregard historical context, but since you're translating an ancient practice into the modern world, there are going to be things you cannot or will not do.

Also, a note if you don't feel like you can settle completely on one thing: eclecticism, when done responsibly, is not a bad thing!

Best of luck to you!

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask!
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Morag

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Re: New to Celtic Paganism -- Need a lil Help
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2016, 03:09:00 am »
Quote from: HarpingHawke;189188
Look into Gaelic/Irish/Brythonic/Gaulish/etc polytheism and see where you want to go from there. You'll likely have to look through some scholarly articles, which may require a subscription to a database like JSTOR; that's expensive, so see if your local library already has one. Libraries are honestly amazing. People need to use them more.


This is good advice! To expand a bit, OP, there are also some great posts here in this SIG, including a thread on Recommended Celtic Blogs and our Resource Database -- it's not complete or exhaustive, but a good place to begin.  

Quote from: HarpingHawke;189188
Devotion to a god or goddess is *never* required for worship *or* shrine-making. Devotion is kind of a huge thing. It's...not necessarily marriage, but is of similar significance. (IME at least).


Generally the way I've seen the word used in religious or pagan context, devotion refers more to acts of worship (daily devotionals, etc), or a feeling of strong love/other similar emotions for a deity in question, which is usually something that's acquired after a while in relationship with said deity.

I think the huge/marriage-like thing you and -- I think? -- the OP might be referring to is more commonly called "dedication", as in "dedication ritual", or dedicating yourself to the service of a deity. (Correct me if I'm wrong, OP, and you meant something else.) You can be a devotee of a deity without having done a dedication ritual to them.

However, the words do overlap a bit, so YMMV. Just wanted to note that this thread is the first time I've seen "devotion" used in the particular context of dedicating oneself to a deity.

I agree that you do not need to do any sort of big act of ritual or dedication to a deity in order to start worshipping them. Starting by saying "hi" is fine! :)

Quote from: HarpingHawke;189188
That's not me saying you can disregard historical context, but since you're translating an ancient practice into the modern world, there are going to be things you cannot or will not do.


Like bringing home the heads of your enemies on pikes. Generally frowned upon these days. ;)
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ubercraft100

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Re: New to Celtic Paganism -- Need a lil Help
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2016, 04:55:51 am »
Quote from: HarpingHawke;189188
FraterB supplied some awesome points about festivals, so I won't be covering that, and this post is by no means comprehensive, but:

One thing to remember is that there's actually no "Celtic" monolith. The 101 books generally aren't the best source to go to, since they tend to do a lot of talking about "what the Celts believed" when even within Celtic nations, religion was not uniform. Pan-Celticism isn't a good idea!

Look into Gaelic/Irish/Brythonic/Gaulish/etc polytheism and see where you want to go from there. You'll likely have to look through some scholarly articles, which may require a subscription to a database like JSTOR; that's expensive, so see if your local library already has one. Libraries are honestly amazing. People need to use them more.

Devotion to a god or goddess is *never* required for worship *or* shrine-making. Devotion is kind of a huge thing. It's...not necessarily marriage, but is of similar significance. (IME at least).

There are some things required for polytheism (like believing in many gods) but there aren't a lot of "shoulds" involved. That's not me saying you can disregard historical context, but since you're translating an ancient practice into the modern world, there are going to be things you cannot or will not do.

Also, a note if you don't feel like you can settle completely on one thing: eclecticism, when done responsibly, is not a bad thing!

Best of luck to you!

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask!

 

First off, thank you to EVERYONE for ur amazing advice. This has helped
Me figure this predicament out a lot. So today I decided to kickstart my path by just making a shrine to Brighid, the hearth goddess, and just say hi, and cleanse it with the four elements. It was really funny cause I was freezing cold while I was making the alter (it was late at night) and as soon as I starting introducing myself, I became super fuzzy and warm and I coudlnt stop smiling all night after that. I can tell that what I am doing is right, in some way it feels correct.

So I was wondering. Is it ok if I make shrines to a few gods (Brigid, Cernunnos, Etc.) and hold rituals to them, and include Celtic dance and music. The reason I ask if this is ok is because I know Celtic reconstructionism includes worshipping fairys (often called the good folk), aswell as their ancestors, and they celebrate 4 fire festivals, each of which has very VERY little knowledge associated with them.

So if I celebrate the wheel of the year, honor Celtic deities, do rituals for them, also do a little Celtic magic, and include Celtic dance, music, and language, am I a Celtic pagan, electic Wicca, electric Celtic pagan, or something else? is any of this ok or am I "offending" the Celtic pantheon by not following the reconstructionist format.

I only ask because what I did today felt so right and I want to keep it up. Thanks everyone for your info it's been invaluable :)))

RecycledBenedict

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Re: New to Celtic Paganism -- Need a lil Help
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2016, 07:11:25 am »
Quote from: ubercraft100;189195
So I was wondering. Is it ok if I make shrines to a few gods (Brigid, Cernunnos, Etc.) and hold rituals to them, and include Celtic dance and music. The reason I ask if this is ok is because I know Celtic reconstructionism includes worshipping fairys (often called the good folk), aswell as their ancestors, and they celebrate 4 fire festivals, each of which has very VERY little knowledge associated with them.


Lots of things are OK. It is your choice of religion, not anyone elses, but when you speak with other persons about what you do, they will understand you better if you chose to call what you do something that they understand. If the named deities, known from mediaeval literature, are more important in your practice than honouring The Good Folk and your ancestors, then let them be more important, but if you want to acknowledge The Good Folk and your ancestors in a way that doesn't take focus away from the named deities, you can include one candle for each of these groups of entities on your home altar.

Quote from: ubercraft100;189195
So if I celebrate the wheel of the year, honor Celtic deities, do rituals for them, also do a little Celtic magic, and include Celtic dance, music, and language, am I a Celtic pagan, electic Wicca, electric Celtic pagan, or something else? is any of this ok or am I "offending" the Celtic pantheon by not following the reconstructionist format.

I only ask because what I did today felt so right and I want to keep it up. Thanks everyone for your info it's been invaluable :)))


The format of worship of the Celtic deities most probably changed even in the past, when Celtic religions were alive in an unbroken way. The Roman invasions affected Celtic religion in Gaul and Britannia, Roman style temples were built, and formerly unusual statues or bas-reliefs became popular.

So there is historical precedence for changed formats.

I can't answer the question if you 'offend' any deities, but as long as you are not given any signs of that that's the case, I don't think you ought to worry. Even for an eclectic, it could be good to read folklore about metals. In many parts of Europe the use of iron was considered unfriendly to some entities.

The word eclectic is not popular in everyday use, and the auto-correction on some computers may cause silly corrections, which may be the case here:

Quote
electic Wicca, electric Celtic pagan


But eclectic means to bring together things from several different sources and mix them - in modern Paganism often used as an opposite of reconstructionism.

In my ears, the practice you describe sounds either like Celtic-eclectic Paganism or a sort of Neo-Druidry leaning towards the reconstructionist end of the spectrum. I have to agree that the Wheel of the Year is very useful, even if Iron Age Celts themselves probably didn't celebrate Equinoxes, and even if the Solstice celebrations rather belonged to the Stone Age.

Electric Celtic pagan sounds like what is depicted on a poster or album cover for some Heavy Metal band which mixes influences from Irish/Scottish folk music. Perhaps the Gaulish thundergod Taranis doing his thing? Could be cool artwork. ;)

RecycledBenedict

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Re: New to Celtic Paganism -- Need a lil Help
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2016, 07:28:51 am »
Perhaps I ought to clarify. One of the things, that made me think that what you do is Celtic-Eclectic or Druid, is your use of the four elements.

Quote from: ubercraft100;189195
So today I decided to kickstart my path by just making a shrine to Brighid, the hearth goddess, and just say hi, and cleanse it with the four elements.


Using the four elements is a British-style Druid or Celtic-Eclectic way of doing it.

American-style Druids (like ADF) or Celtic Reconstructionists would probably use a symbolic pattern of Sky-Land-Sea instead of Fire-Air-Water-Earth (In some rituals I combine both of these patterns).

None is wrong, but they are different to each other. It is better to make a conscious choice, and know why, than to blindly follow a certain choice without reflecting over your reasons.

Another thing, that causes your practice to sound Celtic-Eclectic, is that you are devoted both to Irish and Gaulish deities.

HarpingHawke

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Re: New to Celtic Paganism -- Need a lil Help
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2016, 03:12:18 pm »
Quote from: Morag;189190


Generally the way I've seen the word used in religious or pagan context, devotion refers more to acts of worship (daily devotionals, etc), or a feeling of strong love/other similar emotions for a deity in question, which is usually something that's acquired after a while in relationship with said deity.

I think the huge/marriage-like thing you and -- I think? -- the OP might be referring to is more commonly called "dedication", as in "dedication ritual", or dedicating yourself to the service of a deity. (Correct me if I'm wrong, OP, and you meant something else.) You can be a devotee of a deity without having done a dedication ritual to them.

However, the words do overlap a bit, so YMMV. Just wanted to note that this thread is the first time I've seen "devotion" used in the particular context of dedicating oneself to a deity.



That's really interesting, because how I first encountered the word was through a 101 book detailing a dedication ritual. Huh.
 
Quote from: ubercraft100;189195
So today I decided to kickstart my path by just making a shrine to Brighid, the hearth goddess, and just say hi, and cleanse it with the four elements. It was really funny cause I was freezing cold while I was making the alter (it was late at night) and as soon as I starting introducing myself, I became super fuzzy and warm and I coudlnt stop smiling all night after that. I can tell that what I am doing is right, in some way it feels correct.

So I was wondering. Is it ok if I make shrines to a few gods (Brigid, Cernunnos, Etc.) and hold rituals to them, and include Celtic dance and music. The reason I ask if this is ok is because I know Celtic reconstructionism includes worshipping fairys (often called the good folk), aswell as their ancestors, and they celebrate 4 fire festivals, each of which has very VERY little knowledge associated with them.

So if I celebrate the wheel of the year, honor Celtic deities, do rituals for them, also do a little Celtic magic, and include Celtic dance, music, and language, am I a Celtic pagan, electic Wicca, electric Celtic pagan, or something else? is any of this ok or am I "offending" the Celtic pantheon by not following the reconstructionist format.

I only ask because what I did today felt so right and I want to keep it up. Thanks everyone for your info it's been invaluable :)))

 
I'm so happy you've found something that makes you feel so great!

You won't offend the gods if you do things that aren't exactly recon. Otherwise I would've been reduced to a greasy spot a loooooong time ago!

One note if you want to set up a shrine to Cernunnos: he's surrounded by a bubble of misinformation. This article might help clear things up.
"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self." - Hemingway

HarpingHawke

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Re: New to Celtic Paganism -- Need a lil Help
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2016, 03:16:02 pm »
Quote from: FraterBenedict;189196

In my ears, the practice you describe sounds either like Celtic-eclectic Paganism or a sort of Neo-Druidry leaning towards the reconstructionist end of the spectrum.



I had a similar thought, however once again, I would caution against calling one's practice "Celtic" because of its nebulous meaning. I can't stop OP though, so whatever he wants to do is fine.

Ultimately, though, you, OP, are the only one who can define what your practice is called. :)
"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self." - Hemingway

RecycledBenedict

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Re: New to Celtic Paganism -- Need a lil Help
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2016, 03:27:15 pm »
Quote from: HarpingHawke;189214
I had a similar thought, however once again, I would caution against calling one's practice "Celtic" because of its nebulous meaning. I can't stop OP though, so whatever he wants to do is fine.


You are right. Celtic has become something of an amoeba in shape. Shall we blame A.E. and William Butler Yeats?

But on the other hand, ubercraft combines Brigid and Cernunnos, and that sounds vaguely pan-Celtic, doesn't it? As long as the infamous Iron Age Potato-goddess isn't claimed for celticity, I am not that sensitive about the word.

ubercraft100

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Re: New to Celtic Paganism -- Need a lil Help
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2016, 05:53:40 pm »
Quote from: HarpingHawke;189213
That's really interesting, because how I first encountered the word was through a 101 book detailing a dedication ritual. Huh.
 

 
I'm so happy you've found something that makes you feel so great!

You won't offend the gods if you do things that aren't exactly recon. Otherwise I would've been reduced to a greasy spot a loooooong time ago!

One note if you want to set up a shrine to Cernunnos: he's surrounded by a bubble of misinformation. This article might help clear things up.

 
Thank you so much for this article! It's really interesting to see the misconceptions and it'll help greatly in making shrines and such :)

ubercraft100

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Re: New to Celtic Paganism -- Need a lil Help
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2016, 05:56:04 pm »
Quote from: FraterBenedict;189197
Perhaps I ought to clarify. One of the things, that made me think that what you do is Celtic-Eclectic or Druid, is your use of the four elements.



Using the four elements is a British-style Druid or Celtic-Eclectic way of doing it.

American-style Druids (like ADF) or Celtic Reconstructionists would probably use a symbolic pattern of Sky-Land-Sea instead of Fire-Air-Water-Earth (In some rituals I combine both of these patterns).

None is wrong, but they are different to each other. It is better to make a conscious choice, and know why, than to blindly follow a certain choice without reflecting over your reasons.

Another thing, that causes your practice to sound Celtic-Eclectic, is that you are devoted both to Irish and Gaulish deities.

 
First off, lets definently make a band
Called the electric Celtic pagans! Hahaha funny how it autocorrected BOTH times!!

Anyways, thnks so much. Ur info has literally been priceless and I guess I am an eclectic (spelled it right this time ;D) Celtic pagan.

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Re: New to Celtic Paganism -- Need a lil Help
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2016, 08:53:36 pm »
Quote from: HarpingHawke;189213
That's really interesting, because how I first encountered the word was through a 101 book detailing a dedication ritual. Huh.


Really? Which book?

It's possible that over time the words have changed and now 'devotion' is more common to refer to that sort of big dedication thing. I admit I've been out of the loop for a while.

And it wouldn't be without the purview of the word; you can devote yourself to your studies, your job, other people.... I've just never seen it with the connotation of it being a big marriage-like thing with regards to deities before, is all. Like, I would say I'm devoted to the Morrigan, but I've never done a formal dedication ritual to her, like I've done for Brighid and Manannan.

Or Aphrodite -- I've never done a formal ritual to dedicate myself to her, but the feeling I have for her is definitely devotion (and adoration), and I am devoted to worshipping her.

I guess what I'm getting at is that 'devotion' doesn't carry the same connotation of 'long commitment' that 'dedication' does for me, in this context. But I dunno, words change, and maybe my being out of the loop has meant I missed this word evolving.
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RecycledBenedict

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Re: New to Celtic Paganism -- Need a lil Help
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2016, 03:37:41 am »
Quote from: ubercraft100;189224
First off, lets definently make a band
Called the electric Celtic pagans! Hahaha funny how it autocorrected BOTH times!!


If we ever had the opportunity, I would prefer a style of music closer to Dropkick Murphys and Flogging Molly, than a heavy metal sound.

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