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Author Topic: Magic vs. Ritual in Witchcraft Religions  (Read 10643 times)

Mellee

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Re: Magic vs. Ritual in Witchcraft Religions
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2016, 05:52:34 pm »
Quote from: FreeSpirit;188231
The OP hasnt given the definition he/she wants us to use... The OP didnt say "magic is defined like this so lets use this definition to answer my posts... I only know when a specific definitions are prefered is if the OP tells me. If people told me respectifully, this is what he/she meant by magic and ritual, then I know how or if I can answer the question.


I didn't define the terms "magic" or "ritual" in my original post, in part because I posted this thread in the Theory and Practice of Magic forum instead of the Magic and the Occult for Beginners forum, thereby assuming that those reading & replying to my post would be using the common understandings of the words "magic" and "ritual".

Forum choice was relevant because I wasn't interested in figuring out exactly what magic and ritual are, but in how they intersect and overlap specifically in Witchcraft religions. I'm not interested in discussing how the terms are used amongst pagans in general or non-Witch pagans.

So instead, in my original post, I said: "I've always seen Wicca and similar forms of Witchcraft as an inherently magical religion, in large part because performing the rituals as listed above fits the same definitions of magic that I use (see Fortune or Crowley's famous quotes)." So, I gave examples of rituals and a definition of magic that were relevant to my question.

For the record: I use the same definition as Darkhawk provided from the MW dictionary for "dogma" and "dogmatic".

Hope that helps.

Mellee

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Re: Magic vs. Ritual in Witchcraft Religions
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2016, 06:02:02 pm »
Quote from: FraterBenedict;188147
That is a very good definition! Do you mind, if I edit it and use it somewhere else? I think 'official inclusion' works even better. Tradition contains lots of non-official practices.


That's exactly what I wanted to say, thank you! And go ahead, of course.

AineLlewellyn

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Re: Magic vs. Ritual in Witchcraft Religions
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2016, 06:40:33 pm »
Quote from: FreeSpirit;188232
Im glad another person understands where I come from. Im sure Im not completely alone on this. Thanks.

 
I was actually agreeing with Darkhawk. Even if I use terms in a non-traditional way, I don't get to expect people to be telepathic and know what I mean. Instead I try to use the appropriate terms for what I'm expressing, and I also try to be aware of when my usage of a word has differed from the usual definition. I prefer utilizing words that mean what I say rather than bending words to their breaking point, however.

unveiledartist

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Re: Magic vs. Ritual in Witchcraft Religions
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2016, 06:45:02 pm »
Quote from: Mellee;188242
I didn't define the terms "magic" or "ritual" in my original post, in part because I posted this thread in the Theory and Practice of Magic forum instead of the Magic and the Occult for Beginners forum, thereby assuming that those reading & replying to my post would be using the common understandings of the words "magic" and "ritual".

Hope that helps.

 
Thank you. I didnt mean to ask you indirectly. I hope my reply helped a bit since Im told its not the common definitions used. Im in an isolated area so the only "witchy" definitions I trust is how people define their path and sometimes how it is defined historically. Modern books Im iffy about because the nature of religion or spirituality is beyond definitions so trying to talk about magic in itself may bump heads.  

Thank you for the clarification. Hopefully everything is soothed out now.

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Re: Magic vs. Ritual in Witchcraft Religions
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2016, 03:28:43 am »
Quote from: FreeSpirit;188248
Thank you for the clarification. Hopefully everything is soothed out now.

 
I'm still unclear on what your definition of 'dogmatic' is. Can you provide that?

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RecycledBenedict

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Re: Magic vs. Ritual in Witchcraft Religions
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2016, 09:32:24 am »
Quote from: Mellee;188244
That's exactly what I wanted to say, thank you! And go ahead, of course.


Thank you!

unveiledartist

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Re: Magic vs. Ritual in Witchcraft Religions
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2016, 10:31:52 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;188279
I'm still unclear on what your definition of 'dogmatic' is. Can you provide that?

Sunflower


Its just the teachings, structures, and guidlines that are part of ones spiritual path, religion, and/or practice (however they name their path).

For example, how to hold an athame is a dogmatic rule but to use it in the manner we feel comfortable without structuring it, its not dogmatic (I guess chaos? had to look that up). Wiccan elavagant rituals are dogmatic in the structures and people involved while.

It isnt a bad word, in my opinion. Calling what one practices dogmatic is really a personal preference.  To me, its one of those words like defining what a book means. Not as flexible as defining magic.

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