The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum

So, I've heard people say stuff that makes it sound like they're having an actual conversation with a deity. How are they doing this?  Is it similar to the way that some Christians say "the Lord told me x", or is it more like an impression or actual words- basically what kind of phenomenon/experience is happening here?

 
I'm one of those who "talks" to the gods, and I've spoken to Christians about this too. I think I can safely say that it varies a great deal from person to person. Even in my own experience, it varies a lot what I mean when I say "X god 'told' me Y".

So, I've heard people say stuff that makes it sound like they're having an actual conversation with a deity. How are they doing this?  Is it similar to the way that some Christians say "the Lord told me x", or is it more like an impression or actual words- basically what kind of phenomenon/experience is happening here?

It depends! On the people, on the gods, on the day, on the reason for the communication.

Most of the time, for me, it's a very general sense. If I'm paying attention to communication with a deity I have a long-standing relationship with, it might be a noticeable burst of emotion.

Sometimes it's like playing the children's game, 'hot and cold'. So, for example, if I'm trying to figure out what a suitable offering for a deity might be, I might think of one thing, see what I get back as a response, try something else, get a more positive response, and keep exploring different options until I've come up with some options.

The mode of communication also depends a lot on the person. I normally don't get very strong visuals in meditation, but when I do, I'm usually pretty sure that's a deity or other being trying to get my attention. I usually can't 'hear' them, like I would hear someone I was talking to, but I often have a strong since of knowing what they just said, without it going through my ears.

Some people use divination - especially with fairly complex methods, like Tarot or runes - to help, too.

Other people work really differently - I know people who don't get any visual stuff at all, but will hear deities very clearly with comments or guidance sometimes, and other people who get a very strong sensation in their body.

My religious practice also includes what's referred to as 'Drawing Down', where a goddess or god speaks through the body of a trained and prepared priestess or priest. It's not a thing that's done every ritual, or even most, and it's a practice that really only makes sense in group work in a lot of ways.

Sometimes that produces sort of oracular style commentary: actual sentences, but making sense out of them is complicated and requires interpretation. Sometimes it produces really coherent commentary - do this, don't do that, you made this promise and you haven't lived up to it, fix that. A lot of times it's somewhere in the middle.

(That's also true for the priestess or priest: some people get the deity being very specific about what they should say, sometimes the deity communicates a feeling or emotion or concept, and it's up to the priestess or priest to put it into language.)

This is, obviously, a thing that can be abused by people (saying they're speaking for a deity when they aren't, or when they're mis-conveying information.) Most people who are in rituals that include this regularly develop ways of telling if they're getting real communications. (For example, there's a thing that deities call me that human beings generally don't, that has also been true in things like meditation or other ritual settings for me.)

Also, what's up with people saying they saw gods whilst meditating? I meditate, but I do the "focus on your breathing" type meditation, so I figure people who see gods must be doing a different kind of meditation?

 
There's lots of different kinds of meditation, so that makes sense.

The experience of encountering deities or other beings in meditation is more common if you set up a situation in which it might happen. (Logical, right?)

Guided meditation is a way to do that - there are a bunch of meditations that are basically 'go to a location, and through a couple of experiences, and you meet a being who might be willing to help you'. that do different things.

I also have it happen sometimes with something that isn't really guided, so much as 'put myself in a place where I've had previous interactions, and see what happens'. (Sort of like if you've gone to the same coffee shop often enough to be a regular, you might start seeing the same people there over time?) It's not really guided, then, so much as 'this is a known space in which the potential exists more easily.

So, I've heard people say stuff that makes it sound like they're having an actual conversation with a deity. How are they doing this?  Is it similar to the way that some Christians say "the Lord told me x", or is it more like an impression or actual words- basically what kind of phenomenon/experience is happening here?

Also, what's up with people saying they saw gods whilst meditating? I meditate, but I do the "focus on your breathing" type meditation, so I figure people who see gods must be doing a different kind of meditation?

 
The guided meditations are often suggested to help people communicate with the Divine, but I've found that I am not able to get a clear message when I do this; the Spirit seems to like to catch me unawares.

In terms of how I receive the message, it truly depends on who is speaking. I have had the strongest urge to call my best friend exactly when she needed me. That is a communication in this plane. I didn't hear the words "call your friend NOW." But I knew what was being said.

When I receive communication from the Goddess, it is often in the form of visions or inclinations. I have seen the Morrigan and Brigid during meditation and I have had the sudden thought to stop what I'm doing,make a certain purchase, etc. The God seems to prefer using actual words with me, and I hear these messages in my mind, kind of like "hearing" the voices of characters when you are reading a book. I have also felt what I believe are guardian spirits. They manifest as a feeling of protection and light, but don't give discernable messages.

It is clear to me each time that these thoughts and inclinations have not come from me, but from a specific source.

Thanks for all they replies, some real food for thought here!

Guided meditation is a way to do that - there are a bunch of meditations that are basically 'go to a location, and through a couple of experiences, and you meet a being who might be willing to help you'. that do different things.

Any information on where I might find this type of guided meditation? Most of the ones I've come across have been Buddhist (so mindfulness, lovingkindness, that sort of thing).

I do have a bit of a concern with this as well- I used to have a very vivid imagination when I was a teenager, but I worry that it's dimmed after four years of factual academic work. I've attempted simple visualisation exercises (of the "picture a blue circle" variety), but found that I get caught up in the fact that I am both seeing and not seeing what I am trying to picture, and I got weirded out by this realisation and began to worry I'd lost my imagination or something. Then again, I managed to induce a sort-of-vision of Krishna whilst at Taize, so it must be possible.

There are ritualized sādhanās (practices) that really should not be undertaken unless and until one is guided and initiated by a guru or lama.

Whilst I realise there are things that are not smart to mess around with without guidance, I am a little wary of the concept of a "guru", due to my Hindu background- however, I am referring specifically to the Indian concept of a guru here, not of the idea of "having a spiritual teacher" (because in Hinduism there's a whole concept of treating the teacher like God, which I think can lead to all sorts of problems like discouraging questioning.

... I am a little wary of the concept of a "guru", due to my Hindu background- however, I am referring specifically to the Indian concept of a guru here, not of the idea of "having a spiritual teacher" (because in Hinduism there's a whole concept of treating the teacher like God, which I think can lead to all sorts of problems like discouraging questioning.

 
Believe me, I feel the same way. I am very skeptical of the idea of a guru. In fact I was horrified when I found out that the Vedic verse "gurur brahma gurur vishnu guru devo maheshwara ..." (you know the rest ) is interpreted opposite of what I thought. I thought it meant that Brahma is the teacher, Vishnu is the teacher, Shiva is the teacher... y'know, we learn from God. But I was told that it actually means the teacher is Brahma, the teacher is Vishnu, the teacher is Shiva; basically the (human) teacher is God.

possession which is a fancier way of saying self-hypnosis

My experience has been that possession and self-hypnosis are rather different, primarily as one involves the body being controlled by another being and the other doesn't.

So, I've heard people say stuff that makes it sound like they're having an actual conversation with a deity. How are they doing this?

I've been around the sort of Christians who say "the Lord told me X" and "Jesus said Y this morning to me about cleaning my room and where to put my shoes" but I got the sense that it would have been sort of rude to ask how, like was it a deep booming voice all around them that can't be captured by a tape recorder, or was the bush in their garden on fire, or did some multi-winged spirit with four animal heads or something barge in all "Be not afraid" before they went on with the rest of their message?

So, I can't say for sure that it's like that or not like that. Except, I guess, in the sense that people say that some god said some thing and I ought to also support and believe them as long as the message isn't that they should assassinate some political figure or celebrity or something?

basically what kind of phenomenon/experience is happening here?

During meditations, sometimes, if you notice what's in your mind rather than trying to blank it (by filling your attention with breathing) there might be a concept that feels dissociated from yourself. That might be one way. Meditations that involve this state of mind, that allow the movement of the body, can include yoga or tai chi...or, in my case, writing as a moving meditation practice. I don't know if it's automatic writing, because it's more like transcribing what concepts are coming through, or what feelings and thoughts. It's not just leaving my hand limp until the planchette moves or whatever. Maybe for some people it's like that, hence automatic writing? But I tried automatic writing and it just came out squiggles, so it's more like meditative writing.

Other kinds of meditations might call for filling your mind with an imaginary construct, a meadow by a river, or a beach...when I began to lose the focus to do blank-mind meditations, I shifted to this kind, but found it helpful to imagine myself sitting in a crowded city restaurant that was full of noise (because my mind chatter just decided that it would never shut up.) Sometimes, in these meditations, you'll find somebody else there with you that you didn't imagine, and sometimes they'll start sort of giving you vibes and talking.

If I try to hear it too hard, I'll notice that it's not really language that is coming through. Nothing with a specific grammar, vocabulary, or accent. If I keep medially open to a message, then I guess it's concepts that some part of my mind automatically translates into language. Sometimes it's not so automatic.

I wouldn't usually find what new agers call "synchronicity" (or signs) and express my interpretation of it as straight-out what so-and-so deity told me or said to me, but I wouldn't say that no one else does that.