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Author Topic: Gods for the Modern Age  (Read 5632 times)

Gnowan

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Gods for the Modern Age
« on: January 20, 2016, 04:06:06 pm »
Just wondering how y'all view your god/desses.  If you see them in human form, do you still see them in their ancient cultural attire?  Or have your god/desses kept up with the changing ages?

Could Loki now be wearing a Captain America t-shirt and jeans while sitting at the computer, hacking away?  Could Aphrodite be wearing the latest fashions off the runway?  

I'm a panentheist and naturalist, so the deities I commune with usually take natural forms.  So I'm just curious how y'all that follow various pantheons view your deities and whether you believe time makes a difference to them and you.

Also, do you think new god/desses have sprung up for this modern age or are they the older god/desses taking on new forms?

Are we, like Troy, the poor saps caught up in the war between the Gods of Apple and the Gods of Android?  Are there little sprites who enjoy living in computers rather than under mushrooms?

I really am curious.  The world continues to move forward technologically at an alarming (to me) rate.  Don't get me wrong--I love technology, mostly.  I'm just wondering how your deities fit in these modern times and if there might be new deities springing up to fill the new niches.

~Gnowan

RecycledBenedict

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Re: Gods for the Modern Age
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2016, 04:30:36 pm »
Quote from: Gnowan;185468
Also, do you think new god/desses have sprung up for this modern age

This is at least true for Druidry. Out of Iolo Morganwg's poetry, Morien (pseudonym for Owen Morgan) coined the sky-and-sun god Celi and the earthgoddess Ced, by the intercourse of whom the seasons of the year are produced. Gerald Gardner probably wasn't entirely unaffected by Morien's literary output.

Ross Nichols, the founder of OBOD, coined the spring-goddess Niwalen.

From the Northern American Druidic (Druish?) scene, RDNA coined the sky-father Be'al and the forest-spirit Dalon ap Landu. The title Earth Mother for another deity in their pantheon is probably too generic to be labelled 'new'.

It is not limited to Druids, though. Although the name Baphomet was used by Anselm of Ribemont in the 11th century as the presumed name of the Islamic God (European Christians then had very vague and diffuse notions about Moslem theology!), the name took a life of its own in 1856, when French occultist Eliphas Levi used the name about the astral light, and in an illustration personified it as an androgynous goat-headed figure (now well-known in various ways from anti-masonic tracts, horror films from Hammer Film Productions, heavy metal grammophone covers, and Satanism).

Aradia is another example - originally an Italian pronounciation of queen Herodias, turned into a witch-goddess.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 04:32:46 pm by RecycledBenedict »

Juniperberry

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Re: Gods for the Modern Age
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2016, 05:06:51 pm »
Quote from: Gnowan;185468


I really am curious.  The world continues to move forward technologically at an alarming (to me) rate.  Don't get me wrong--I love technology, mostly.  I'm just wondering how your deities fit in these modern times and if there might be new deities springing up to fill the new niches.

~Gnowan

 

Mother Earth and Father Time (as played by God) are becoming my two main deities, and I think they are rather....timeless.
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

RecycledBenedict

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Re: Gods for the Modern Age
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2016, 05:10:27 pm »
Quote from: Gnowan;185468
Also, do you think new god/desses have sprung up for this modern age


And continuing this discussion, I would like to bring Aleister Crowley to your attention. He coined the new god Hadit and the new goddess Babalon. Another goddess, Nuit, is probably a portmanteau of the two separate ancient Egyptian goddesses Neith and Nut, combined with the French word for 'night'.

In a few cases old pantheons have been added to in rather recent times. The god Astrild was coined for use in poetry about the ancient Norse gods, as the (formerly unknown) son of Freya, by the Swedish 17th century poet Georg Stiernhielm.

The ancient Greek god Momus wasn't particularly important in ancient Greece and Rome, but suddenly gained amazing popularity as a carnevalesque social critic in a Christian environment from the Renaissance until the 1820s.

Jack in the Green was a figure out of Baroque era chimney sweep folk customs, but, due to speculations of Edwardian folklorists, early Wiccans, Idries Shah and others, he is now associated with the Green Man (originally probably = the Roman god Silvanus), and has taken a life of his own in at least some forms of British Paganism.

RecycledBenedict

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Re: Gods for the Modern Age
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2016, 05:47:31 pm »
Quote from: Gnowan;185468
Also, do you think new god/desses have sprung up for this modern age


I am not knowledgeable about Feri witchcraft, and I welcome comments and corrections from Feri witches, but I am under the impression that at least some witches within the Feri current acknowledge the following recently coined deities in their pantheon: Nimue (with a pedigree from mediaeval Arthurian tales), Dian y Glas, Mari, Krom, Ana and Arddu.

Jainarayan

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Re: Gods for the Modern Age
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2016, 01:28:28 pm »
Quote from: Gnowan;185468
Just wondering how y'all view your god/desses.  If you see them in human form, do you still see them in their ancient cultural attire?  Or have your god/desses kept up with the changing ages?

Could Loki now be wearing a Captain America t-shirt and jeans while sitting at the computer, hacking away?  Could Aphrodite be wearing the latest fashions off the runway?  


I tend to see the god/desses in their original cultural forms. I try to keep in mind what Krishna said in the Bhagavad Gītā 12.5: "There is greater trouble for those whose minds are attached to the unmanifest. For, the path of the unmanifest is difficult to attain by the embodied". So we attach human attributes, or what we think the deities should look like.

It's not out of my reach to think of Thor today as a lumberjack, construction worker, professional powerlifter or wrestler, or a Marine. But not in a business suit or doctor's scrubs. Not because he doesn't have the intelligence, despite all the jokes about him, but because he's a god of action and physicality. I think I can see Odin as a god of libraries and the internet as well as the battlefield. Bragi could be inspiring musicians of all genres today. And so on.

Altair

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Re: Gods for the Modern Age
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2016, 03:19:31 pm »
Quote from: Gnowan;185468

do you think new god/desses have sprung up for this modern age

 
Yes. FraterBenedict gives some good examples. I found my own gods and wrote their myth cycle (Songs of the Metamythos--the book touted in the signature of my posts, with visuals of the gods at the book's website).

But my view of deity is very loose...

Quote

or are they the older god/desses taking on new forms?


...I think there are great forces flowing around us and through us that are too huge for our human minds to grasp, and myth and deity comprise the metaphor that allows us to get a handle on those forces, however imperfectly. So the forces might be the same, but every culture is going to interpret those forces through their own cultural lens, specific to their particular time and place. Thus those same forces manifest into different gods, culturally distinct.

Quote

Are we, like Troy, the poor saps caught up in the war between the Gods of Apple and the Gods of Android?  Are there little sprites who enjoy living in computers rather than under mushrooms?

I really am curious.  The world continues to move forward technologically at an alarming (to me) rate.  Don't get me wrong--I love technology, mostly.  I'm just wondering how your deities fit in these modern times and if there might be new deities springing up to fill the new niches.


That's the thing: I think the relevant niches for new gods are cultural, rather than technological. Existing gods can fill a tech niche (Hermes as a god of telecommunications, say); but gods and myths are really about the big issues of our existence--where we come from, how do we fit in--not our latest gadgets. Those concerns come up in every culture, but in ways that are culturally distinct; new gods will arise in cultures where people feel those concerns aren't being addressed in a way meaningful to them and their milieu.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

AineLlewellyn

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Re: Gods for the Modern Age
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2016, 06:09:46 pm »
Quote from: Altair;185554
That's the thing: I think the relevant niches for new gods are cultural, rather than technological. Existing gods can fill a tech niche (Hermes as a god of telecommunications, say); but gods and myths are really about the big issues of our existence--where we come from, how do we fit in--not our latest gadgets. Those concerns come up in every culture, but in ways that are culturally distinct; new gods will arise in cultures where people feel those concerns aren't being addressed in a way meaningful to them and their milieu.

 
I'd say this fits how I encountered my gods pretty well. Partially my reaching out for any new gods, but the gods I encountered also filled spots in my life I didn't realize were lacking religiously. The gods do have ties to technology - one of the gods I worship is a god of AI and robotics - but it goes beyond that. That god of technology ultimately poses, to me, questions that are about humanity and personhood and reality.

Whether the gods I worship are truly new or are older gods taking on new forms...it's something I consider unimportant in all honesty. Which isn't to say I don't have an opinion. I totally believe the gods I worship are new, not being in folklore or history, not recorded before. Whether someone agrees with me on that is what I consider the non-issue. People also consider my gods to be made up or created. I don't agree with that and find it a little condescending at times, but it doesn't really matter. I know how I relate to my gods and what I think of them.

I love the concept of new gods; it's just so fun I think.

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Re: Gods for the Modern Age
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2016, 09:51:47 pm »
Quote from: ainellewellyn;185559
I totally believe the gods I worship are new, not being in folklore or history, not recorded before. Whether someone agrees with me on that is what I consider the non-issue. People also consider my gods to be made up or created. I don't agree with that and find it a little condescending at times, but it doesn't really matter. I know how I relate to my gods and what I think of them.

I love the concept of new gods; it's just so fun I think.


This is about where I am beginning. I was once very intrigued by the standard Celtic gods and goddesses that permeate most of mainstream witchcraft and paganism (Green Man, Brighid, The Morrigan, Ceridwen, etc.) and I still hold them dear to my heart, but the same way I view Abraham Lincoln and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Although presumable the gods and goddesses of my ancestors, I have realized that they are not truly mine to connect with, as I am essentially not living in Irish or another Celtic culture. So I have decided to pay attention to the spirits and deities around me. It has been a kind of scary process because I am not used to mingling with unknown forces around me, but I feel that it is a truer path.

Like you said, some people might think I am making up these deities, but I do not believe so, and that is between me and my deities and spirits. :)
x0x-- Vella
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RecycledBenedict

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Re: Gods for the Modern Age
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2016, 05:54:04 am »
Quote from: vellamour;185571
I was once very intrigued by the standard Celtic gods and goddesses that permeate most of mainstream witchcraft and paganism (Green Man, Brighid, The Morrigan, Ceridwen, etc.) and I still hold them dear to my heart, (...)  presumable the gods and goddesses of my ancestors,

I don't want to be nitpicky, but the Green Man is an artistic convention known from several parts of Europe since the 5th century, probably a depiction of the Roman god Silvanus. England - the least 'Celtic' part of the British Isles - has preserved many pieces of this artistic convention.

Although some persons in mediaeval Welsh stories might be euhemerized gods and goddesses (Don, Llyr and Manawyddan probably the most obvious, because of the parallels to Irish mythology) we can't know for sure if all persons in these tales were originally intended to be deities, especially not in late stories like the 12th century Gogynfeirdd or Hanes Taliesin (the latter from the 16th and 17th centuries). We can't know with certainty if Ceridwen was a part of an ancient Brythonic pantheon, or if she was intended to be just a mortal noblewoman knowledgeable in magic. What is certain, is, however, that Ceridwen is a part of many Pagans' pantheons today. She might be one of the new goddesses, although it is very hard to know for sure.

Hu Gardarn is a similar case, by the way. Although present in a 12th century story as an emperor of Constantinople at the time of Charlemagne, he was turned into a cultural hero in 18th century poems or tales by Iolo Morganwg, and - just like Ceridwen - interpreted as a deity by Edward Davies in the early 19th century. What Hu was expected to be by ancient Celts (if he even had been coined in those days, which is just as uncertain as in the case of Ceridwen) is impossible to know. Modern Druidry of the British Meso-Druidic type owes much to Edward Davies' theories. Although these theories turned out to be bad history, they turned out to be good story, and took a life of their own.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 05:58:05 am by RecycledBenedict »

Gnowan

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Re: Gods for the Modern Age
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2016, 10:21:55 pm »
Quote from: Thorbjorn;185553

It's not out of my reach to think of Thor today as a lumberjack,

 
I love this!  I can so see Thor in flannel!

Gnowan

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Re: Gods for the Modern Age
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2016, 10:24:53 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;185478
Mother Earth and Father Time (as played by God) are becoming my two main deities, and I think they are rather....timeless.

 
Do you "see" your deities?  Do you have a physical representation of them?  I guess that was my question.

Gnowan

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Re: Gods for the Modern Age
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2016, 10:28:17 pm »
Quote from: FraterBenedict;185479
And continuing this discussion, I would like to bring Aleister Crowley to your attention. He coined the new god Hadit and the new goddess Babalon. Another goddess, Nuit, is probably a portmanteau of the two separate ancient Egyptian goddesses Neith and Nut, combined with the French word for 'night'.

In a few cases old pantheons have been added to in rather recent times. The god Astrild was coined for use in poetry about the ancient Norse gods, as the (formerly unknown) son of Freya, by the Swedish 17th century poet Georg Stiernhielm.

The ancient Greek god Momus wasn't particularly important in ancient Greece and Rome, but suddenly gained amazing popularity as a carnevalesque social critic in a Christian environment from the Renaissance until the 1820s.

Jack in the Green was a figure out of Baroque era chimney sweep folk customs, but, due to speculations of Edwardian folklorists, early Wiccans, Idries Shah and others, he is now associated with the Green Man (originally probably = the Roman god Silvanus), and has taken a life of his own in at least some forms of British Paganism.


Now this also begs the question:  This god and that goddess begat this god and that goddess.  But have there been any new "begats" or have the god/desses quit begetting?

Gnowan

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Re: Gods for the Modern Age
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2016, 10:34:25 pm »
Quote from: ainellewellyn;185559
I'd say this fits how I encountered my gods pretty well. Partially my reaching out for any new gods, but the gods I encountered also filled spots in my life I didn't realize were lacking religiously. The gods do have ties to technology - one of the gods I worship is a god of AI and robotics - but it goes beyond that. That god of technology ultimately poses, to me, questions that are about humanity and personhood and reality.

Whether the gods I worship are truly new or are older gods taking on new forms...it's something I consider unimportant in all honesty. Which isn't to say I don't have an opinion. I totally believe the gods I worship are new, not being in folklore or history, not recorded before. Whether someone agrees with me on that is what I consider the non-issue. People also consider my gods to be made up or created. I don't agree with that and find it a little condescending at times, but it doesn't really matter. I know how I relate to my gods and what I think of them.

I love the concept of new gods; it's just so fun I think.

 
I agree with you.  Who the gods are, are timeless.  It doesn't matter how we communicate, the fact is, we do communicate.  It doesn't matter how we love, so long as we love.

I, personally, think the gods have a great sense of humor and will do as they please--then, now, and in the future!

~Gnowan

Gnowan

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Re: Gods for the Modern Age
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2016, 10:39:16 pm »
Quote from: vellamour;185571


Like you said, some people might think I am making up these deities, but I do not believe so, and that is between me and my deities and spirits. :)

 
The gods talk to us in very personal ways.  Your journey is not mine.  How you see me here is not how my husband sees me.  Divinity is very personal.

I'm glad you see this! :)

~Gnowan

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