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Author Topic: Confused: I Think I'm Pagan  (Read 2300 times)

Baern

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Confused: I Think I'm Pagan
« on: January 09, 2016, 11:09:58 pm »
Hello.

As the title of this thread suggests, I think I'm pagan. However, I'm not 100% sure on this; perhaps a little background information is in order.

I was raised Roman Catholic, but became atheist around 19. From then, I remained so, through college and major life changes, and was content. I had adopted the ideology that we can't know; it's lunacy to assume, and the universe is far too complex to pretend to comprehend even the most simplistic things like a gauge boson (nature's will/force). I would laugh at religion and say it's the last hangup to human enlightenment, but it was always tempered with a lingering feeling of "we can't know". I'm a software engineer (specializing in physics engines), my partner is an aerospace engineer, and our home is science and truth-friendly to the point where we don't even celebrate generic holidays nor our birthdays. We never really saw a point.

Recently, that lingering feeling I've mentioned before, the one that I've had since I walked away from Catholicism, has grown into a painstaking yearn. I've had unexplained "experiences" in my life that I would credit to visual abstractions if not for another person confirming, along with simple gut feelings that are usually spot on. This is one of those times; I feel in my gut that there's more.

I will say this, though - I don't believe deities exist. In that, I mean currently. I could be convinced otherwise, but as it stands, no. If anything, I would state deities are just forces of nature that people worship (my own ignorant theorem atm). I think the Earth or universe is sentient in a way to pass off as sort of divine without being pantheistic (I don't think my calculator is part of god).

In conclusion, my gut and heart are telling me there's more to life than explained that cannot be answered with most conventional faiths (this is purely my opinion), and it feels like a mental war. If anyone can shed some light, that'd be amazing. Feel free to share your beginnings or please tell me what you think I should do?

Right now, I feel like I am pagan, but none of what I've looked into so far are for me (anything with deities).

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Re: Confused: I Think I'm Pagan
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2016, 03:50:31 am »
Quote
...

 
I think spirituality is personal and one is free to explore in any way that is true to oneself.  I'm continually shaping my spiritual ideology, and much of it's philosophy coexists harmoniously with logic.

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Re: Confused: I Think I'm Pagan
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2016, 04:26:34 am »
Quote from: LunaStar;184934


 
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Re: Confused: I Think I'm Pagan
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2016, 05:03:20 am »
Quote from: Baern;184929
In conclusion, my gut and heart are telling me there's more to life than explained that cannot be answered with most conventional faiths (this is purely my opinion), and it feels like a mental war. If anyone can shed some light, that'd be amazing. Feel free to share your beginnings or please tell me what you think I should do?

Right now, I feel like I am pagan, but none of what I've looked into so far are for me (anything with deities).

 
Hi, Baern, welcome to TC!

I won't tell you what you should do (you'll be a better judge of that than I could possibly be), and I doubt my own beginnings would be all that helpful to you, but can probably shed at least a bit of light.

The definition of 'pagan' that we use here on TC is 'not a practitioner of one of the Abrahamic religions, and identifies as pagan' - there are so many religions under the pagan umbrella, and they're so diverse, that more specific definitions don't work (and even that one is imperfect, because there are folks who syncretize paganisms with JCI religions).

'We can't know' is a perfectly reasonable position even for theistic pagans - that can depend a bit on the particular pagan religion they're part of, but for the most part, conviction-of-faith isn't a religious requirement; pagan religions tend to be experiential or orthopraxic, rather than orthodoctrinal.

Nontheistic or outright atheistic pagans do exist - as well as those who might or might not think of themselves as nontheistic, but who consider deities to be personified forces of nature (and/or of other things; many deities don't really fit the 'of nature' part).

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Re: Confused: I Think I'm Pagan
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2016, 07:02:04 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;184937

'We can't know' is a perfectly reasonable position even for theistic pagans - that can depend a bit on the particular pagan religion they're part of, but for the most part, conviction-of-faith isn't a religious requirement; pagan religions tend to be experiential or orthopraxic, rather than orthodoctrinal.

Nontheistic or outright atheistic pagans do exist - as well as those who might or might not think of themselves as nontheistic, but who consider deities to be personified forces of nature (and/or of other things; many deities don't really fit the 'of nature' part).

Sunflower

 
This is extremely helpful. I didn't think of it that way since I've been exposed mainly to Abrahamic and Zionist religions in my lifetime. I guess it's just a matter of serious thinking, but I'd appreciate suggestions on what books I should pick up on the subject.

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Re: Confused: I Think I'm Pagan
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2016, 08:24:14 am »
Quote from: Baern;184929
Hello.

As the title of this thread suggests, I think I'm pagan. However, I'm not 100% sure on this;

(...)

Right now, I feel like I am pagan, but none of what I've looked into so far are for me (anything with deities).


Each of us are on our own existential journeys. I hope that you find out which spiritual exercises (types of meditation, morning observances, evening observances, sacrifices, festivals) and modes of liguistic expression that are useful for you. No one else can, although it is useful to know which options there are out there.


Quote from: Baern;184929
I had adopted the ideology that we can't know; it's lunacy to assume, and the universe is far too complex to pretend to comprehend even the most simplistic things like a gauge boson (nature's will/force).

(...)

I will say this, though - I don't believe deities exist. In that, I mean currently. I could be convinced otherwise, but as it stands, no. If anything, I would state deities are just forces of nature that people worship (my own ignorant theorem atm).


One of the reasons (not the only one) for me to be attracted to ancient Roman religion, is that the Romans nurtured a rather 'Agnostic' attitude to their own polytheism. It was very common to address the deities of the Roman pantheon with ritual speeches including expressions like '... regardless if you are a god or a goddess, and under whatever name you prefer to be addressed...'. The Romans didn't claim to know if a deity was a god or a goddess, nor did they claim to know its 'true' name(s).

The idea that (at least some) deities are ways to relate to natural phenomena, was a view held by at least some of the Stoics back then. During the Greek/Macedonian rule over Egypt and during Roman rule over Egypt, some Egyptians became influenced by Greek philosophy and viewed the Egyptian pantheon in this way. The priest Chaeremon of Alexandria is probably the most famous example of this. Fragments of his writings were translated by Pieter Willem van der Horst in 1984.

Quote from: Baern;184929
I think the Earth or universe is sentient in a way to pass off as sort of divine without being pantheistic (I don't think my calculator is part of god).


Have you read Ralph Waldo Emerson's essay Nature? Even if you afterward find that you disagree with him, it is good to have read some of the classics.

Quote from: Baern;184929
Feel free to share your beginnings or please tell me what you think I should do?


It is dangerous to give advice. I will give some non-sectarian suggestions, with the advice that you ought to disregard these suggestions if they are not for you.

Find a few minutes before every workday starts, and relax, breathing deeply. Return to natural and spontaneous breathing. Be aware of your embodied existence. Observe the position of the Sun if possible, but don't stare at it of course. State something along similar lines to:

Quote
I am grateful for this new day.
I am grateful for the lifegiving Sun.
I am grateful for the opportunity to help other people.


Find a few minutes at sunset or when the Moon rise or before bedtime, and relax, breathing deeply. Return to natural and spontaneous breathing. Be aware of your embodied existence. Observe the position of the Sun or the Moon if possible. State something along similar lines to:

Quote
I am grateful for the opportunity for rest.
I am grateful for the joys this day gave me.
I am grateful for the things I have learned this day.
I am grateful for the kindness expressed to me by other people.
I am aware of the shortness of life.


Be prepared to adapt, modify and improvise these non-sectarian observances if you would find it useful, or if intuition moves you to do so.

If useful, add a 10 minute meditation in which you notice your own breathing without trying to control your breathing.

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Re: Confused: I Think I'm Pagan
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2016, 11:29:31 pm »
Quote from: Baern;184929
Hello.

As the title of this thread suggests, I think I'm pagan. However, I'm not 100% sure on this; perhaps a little background information is in order.

I was raised Roman Catholic, but became atheist around 19. From then, I remained so, through college and major life changes, and was content. I had adopted the ideology that we can't know; it's lunacy to assume, and the universe is far too complex to pretend to comprehend even the most simplistic things like a gauge boson (nature's will/force). I would laugh at religion and say it's the last hangup to human enlightenment, but it was always tempered with a lingering feeling of "we can't know". I'm a software engineer (specializing in physics engines), my partner is an aerospace engineer, and our home is science and truth-friendly to the point where we don't even celebrate generic holidays nor our birthdays. We never really saw a point.

Recently, that lingering feeling I've mentioned before, the one that I've had since I walked away from Catholicism, has grown into a painstaking yearn. I've had unexplained "experiences" in my life that I would credit to visual abstractions if not for another person confirming, along with simple gut feelings that are usually spot on. This is one of those times; I feel in my gut that there's more.

I will say this, though - I don't believe deities exist. In that, I mean currently. I could be convinced otherwise, but as it stands, no. If anything, I would state deities are just forces of nature that people worship (my own ignorant theorem atm). I think the Earth or universe is sentient in a way to pass off as sort of divine without being pantheistic (I don't think my calculator is part of god).

In conclusion, my gut and heart are telling me there's more to life than explained that cannot be answered with most conventional faiths (this is purely my opinion), and it feels like a mental war. If anyone can shed some light, that'd be amazing. Feel free to share your beginnings or please tell me what you think I should do?

Right now, I feel like I am pagan, but none of what I've looked into so far are for me (anything with deities).

 
When I struggled, narrowing down what I did and did not believe helped me a great deal. Maybe try doing that, if you haven't already. Sit and write in two columns what you do and don't believe. That way when you are searching you may find a path that works for you.

I hope that makes sense.
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Re: Confused: I Think I'm Pagan
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2016, 01:14:47 pm »
Quote from: Baern;184929
Right now, I feel like I am pagan, but none of what I've looked into so far are for me (anything with deities).

 
If it makes you feel any better, I don't really believe in the literal existence of deities, either. I think they are symbols and images that humans construct to relate to the Divine Power that is far beyond our comprehension, and in that sense they are valid and helpful to revere, but not in the sense that they are actual invisible beings with magical powers walking around somewhere. Just my opinion, I know others may have their reasons for believing in deities more concretely.

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Re: Confused: I Think I'm Pagan
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2016, 08:44:18 pm »
Quote from: Demophon;185113
If it makes you feel any better, I don't really believe in the literal existence of deities, either. I think they are symbols and images that humans construct to relate to the Divine Power that is far beyond our comprehension, and in that sense they are valid and helpful to revere, but not in the sense that they are actual invisible beings with magical powers walking around somewhere. Just my opinion, I know others may have their reasons for believing in deities more concretely.


Another guy here who's non-literal about his deities. My view largely matches Demophon's: The concept of deity is a human construct that gives us a fighting chance at beginning to understand forces that are way too great for us to grasp fully.

Deities and myths are metaphors that reveal a deeper truth to us. They are very much open to interpretation.

To the OP, Baern: Good luck on your exploration of your spirituality, wherever it may lead.
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Re: Confused: I Think I'm Pagan
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2016, 09:17:26 pm »
Quote from: Demophon;185113
If it makes you feel any better, I don't really believe in the literal existence of deities, either. I think they are symbols and images that humans construct to relate to the Divine Power that is far beyond our comprehension, and in that sense they are valid and helpful to revere, but not in the sense that they are actual invisible beings with magical powers walking around somewhere. Just my opinion, I know others may have their reasons for believing in deities more concretely.

 
I like this...pretty much sums up my beliefs as well.
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Re: Confused: I Think I'm Pagan
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2016, 11:03:45 pm »
Quote from: Baern;184929
Hello.

As the title of this thread suggests, I think I'm pagan. However, I'm not 100% sure on this; perhaps a little background information is in order.

I was raised Roman Catholic, but became atheist around 19. From then, I remained so, through college and major life changes, and was content. I had adopted the ideology that we can't know; it's lunacy to assume, and the universe is far too complex to pretend to comprehend even the most simplistic things like a gauge boson (nature's will/force). I would laugh at religion and say it's the last hangup to human enlightenment, but it was always tempered with a lingering feeling of "we can't know". I'm a software engineer (specializing in physics engines), my partner is an aerospace engineer, and our home is science and truth-friendly to the point where we don't even celebrate generic holidays nor our birthdays. We never really saw a point.

Recently, that lingering feeling I've mentioned before, the one that I've had since I walked away from Catholicism, has grown into a painstaking yearn. I've had unexplained "experiences" in my life that I would credit to visual abstractions if not for another person confirming, along with simple gut feelings that are usually spot on. This is one of those times; I feel in my gut that there's more.

I will say this, though - I don't believe deities exist. In that, I mean currently. I could be convinced otherwise, but as it stands, no. If anything, I would state deities are just forces of nature that people worship (my own ignorant theorem atm). I think the Earth or universe is sentient in a way to pass off as sort of divine without being pantheistic (I don't think my calculator is part of god).

In conclusion, my gut and heart are telling me there's more to life than explained that cannot be answered with most conventional faiths (this is purely my opinion), and it feels like a mental war. If anyone can shed some light, that'd be amazing. Feel free to share your beginnings or please tell me what you think I should do?

Right now, I feel like I am pagan, but none of what I've looked into so far are for me (anything with deities).

 
One of the formative moments in my path was while reading Drawing Down the Moon by Margot Adler, when she suggested that one could be a skeptic and have a root of belief at the same time.

(I don't recall the exact quote, nor do I own the book now, thanks to a house fire.)

Raised by a combination of Atheist scientists, agnostics, Catholics, folk witches, Spiritualist mediums, Native American belief and my own nacent Wiccan understandings as well as my own psychic perceptions, it was a powerful moment for me, integrating my scientific and skeptic side of myself with the part of me that had had "experiences."

There is no right or wrong way to be pagan.

Ultimately, your own experience of God/dess/Nature/Great Spirit/Him/Her/It is all that matters.
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Re: Confused: I Think I'm Pagan
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2016, 11:53:21 pm »
Quote from: Lionrhod;185126

Ultimately, your own experience of God/dess/Nature/Great Spirit/Him/Her/It is all that matters.

 
And, I might add, that if one doesn't have an experience of (a) deity(ies), then that's completely okay too! Atheistic pagans are more common than you think! :)
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