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Author Topic: Deal wording help  (Read 5181 times)

Aubren

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Deal wording help
« on: December 24, 2015, 03:44:44 am »
Not sure where to put this. Mods, please move this accordingly.

So, I'm making a long, fine print deal for a trickster. You know how all those shows have that devil character that follows the words and loopholes as it pleases? Exactly.

So, in this deal the other dealer will help me learn to let go. To move on from a memory while still keeping it.

The last sentence above is almost exactly what I've put in this roughdraft, but it feels...weak. I'm not sure how they could loophole it, but it feels like there's a dent, you know?

Do you know of a better way to phrase that requirement?
Wazhazhe

Juniperberry

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Re: Deal wording help
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2015, 10:40:50 pm »
Quote from: Aubren;183980
To move on from a memory while still keeping it.


Thinking like a trickster, this evokes the image of a ball and chain. You'll have moved forward from the memory, but the memory will still continue to follow you as a hindrance.

Move on from the pain of the memory, but embrace it's wisdom? I don't know your situation exactly, but maybe something more specific like that?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2015, 10:41:13 pm by Juniperberry »
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Aubren

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Re: Deal wording help
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2015, 09:44:53 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;184011
Thinking like a trickster, this evokes the image of a ball and chain. You'll have moved forward from the memory, but the memory will still continue to follow you as a hindrance.

 That is great. Thank you. I knew that niggling feeling meant something!


Quote
Move on from the pain of the memory, but embrace it's wisdom? I don't know your situation exactly, but maybe something more specific like that?

Let's put it this way: I value my memory. I have good long term memory, but it gets in the way. I've never learned how to truly move on from a romantic relationship. I have classmates from preschool entering my dreams. It needs to stop. But I still want the memory because I value archives. I like remembering that I had a classmate in kindergarten named Iqbal. I like remembering that I picked up an animal-book at a bookfair (that was far below my knowledge & reading range) because they had a good illustrator. I like these things.

But I also want to remember the pain without it flashing at me. If someone asks me how I was abused, I want my words to be directly from that memory. Not from a memory of remembering my explanation.



Less invasion and emotional consistency. Choose-able recalling. These things happened a long time ago, and it's time I disconnected from them. But I still want the memories themselves.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2015, 09:48:11 pm by Aubren »
Wazhazhe

Juniperberry

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Re: Deal wording help
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2015, 01:33:54 am »
Quote from: Aubren;184103
That is great. Thank you. I knew that niggling feeling meant something!



 
Let's put it this way: I value my memory. I have good long term memory, but it gets in the way. I've never learned how to truly move on from a romantic relationship. I have classmates from preschool entering my dreams. It needs to stop. But I still want the memory because I value archives. I like remembering that I had a classmate in kindergarten named Iqbal. I like remembering that I picked up an animal-book at a bookfair (that was far below my knowledge & reading range) because they had a good illustrator. I like these things.

But I also want to remember the pain without it flashing at me. If someone asks me how I was abused, I want my words to be directly from that memory. Not from a memory of remembering my explanation.



Less invasion and emotional consistency. Choose-able recalling. These things happened a long time ago, and it's time I disconnected from them. But I still want the memories themselves.

 
You might benefit from some of the buddhist teachings on identity and memory, and incorporate those teachings into your deal.
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Sri Icetusk

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Re: Deal wording help
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2015, 02:22:13 am »
Quote from: Aubren;183980
Not sure where to put this. Mods, please move this accordingly.

So, I'm making a long, fine print deal for a trickster. You know how all those shows have that devil character that follows the words and loopholes as it pleases? Exactly.

So, in this deal the other dealer will help me learn to let go. To move on from a memory while still keeping it.

The last sentence above is almost exactly what I've put in this roughdraft, but it feels...weak. I'm not sure how they could loophole it, but it feels like there's a dent, you know?

Do you know of a better way to phrase that requirement?


A Trickster might, at worst, kill any other party involved in this memory.

I might go for "Help me to, from this point on, look upon this memory, with pleasantness; should it come to mind of my own accord"

Maybe "Help me to disconnect emotionally, from this memory" A memory that causes issues is less from the remembering and more how you're reacting to them, so an emotional disconnect would allow you to recall it, without reacting to it.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 02:27:26 am by Sri Icetusk »

Sarah

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Re: Deal wording help
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2015, 06:23:56 am »
Quote from: Aubren;183980
Not sure where to put this. Mods, please move this accordingly.

So, I'm making a long, fine print deal for a trickster. You know how all those shows have that devil character that follows the words and loopholes as it pleases? Exactly.

So, in this deal the other dealer will help me learn to let go. To move on from a memory while still keeping it.

The last sentence above is almost exactly what I've put in this roughdraft, but it feels...weak. I'm not sure how they could loophole it, but it feels like there's a dent, you know?

Do you know of a better way to phrase that requirement?

 
Out of interest, how long have you been working with this trickster and how much do you know about them?
Knowing when to use a shovel is what being a witch is all about. Nanny Ogg, Witches Abroad

Aubren

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Re: Deal wording help
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2015, 10:31:32 pm »
Quote from: Jake_;184109
Out of interest, how long have you been working with this trickster and how much do you know about them?

 
Can't exactly "work" with them without a deal. That's the way they roll. I've communicating with them...ehh...three months?

*Awaits freaking out. I know it's coming.*

But also, they're a pop-culture figure. So they're probably more predictable then, say, a random calling/encounter.
Wazhazhe

Jack

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Re: Deal wording help
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2015, 01:08:53 am »
Quote from: Aubren;183980
Not sure where to put this. Mods, please move this accordingly.

So, I'm making a long, fine print deal for a trickster. You know how all those shows have that devil character that follows the words and loopholes as it pleases? Exactly.

So, in this deal the other dealer will help me learn to let go. To move on from a memory while still keeping it.

The last sentence above is almost exactly what I've put in this roughdraft, but it feels...weak. I'm not sure how they could loophole it, but it feels like there's a dent, you know?

Do you know of a better way to phrase that requirement?

 
Honestly that sounds like the sort of thing that I wouldn't want to put in the hands of someone who's actively trying to fuck me over. If I were in your position I'd be evaluating why I wanted to make THIS specific deal with THIS specific entity.

Of course I'm saying this as someone who doesn't remember most of middle school because of a poorly worded deal, so I may just be projecting. ;)
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
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Darkhawk

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Re: Deal wording help
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2015, 01:23:32 am »
Quote from: Aubren;184103
Less invasion and emotional consistency. Choose-able recalling. These things happened a long time ago, and it's time I disconnected from them. But I still want the memories themselves.

 
I found EMDR very effective at dealing with PTSD flashbacks and related sensitivity, myself.  All entities involved were human (unless one anthropomorphises the machine, which, well, I did), and the only dealmaking required was the copay.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Aubren

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Re: Deal wording help
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2015, 05:27:33 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;184181
I found EMDR very effective at dealing with PTSD flashbacks and related sensitivity, myself.  All entities involved were human (unless one anthropomorphises the machine, which, well, I did), and the only dealmaking required was the copay.

 
EMDR?

I'm in one of those tough situations where what I have to offer of myself is much more easier to pay with than cash. Been like this for quite a few years, so it's a stable situation.
Wazhazhe

Aubren

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Re: Deal wording help
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2015, 05:39:43 pm »
Quote from: Jack;184177
Honestly that sounds like the sort of thing that I wouldn't want to put in the hands of someone who's actively trying to fuck me over. If I were in your position I'd be evaluating why I wanted to make THIS specific deal with THIS specific entity.

Of course I'm saying this as someone who doesn't remember most of middle school because of a poorly worded deal, so I may just be projecting. ;)

I've evaluated and I've decided. It's not so much that they're actively trying to fuck me over. I'm already fucked, the lowest point is very close. They don't actually have to do much to tip that point over, if they wanted. And they would almost definitely target the people keeping me afloat, if that's what they wanted.

In other words, if they wanted to fuck me over, then they would either use me to directly ruin my own resources (which I'm quite successful at doing by myself, if you haven't noticed) or they would hurt my own resources by themselves.

Unless they have a long-haul plan where I get better then get swept back again. Which I'm somewhat okay with (except the ending part xD)


Anyways, my main concern is ensuring that he does what I want on my end of the deal. He'll complete his end of the bargain, I just want to ensure that he does it my way. I don't want to hear "Well, it could've meant this thing I'm doing. And I'm doing that, so I've fulfilled my end of the deal!" from him.

And also that I don't get too hurt in the cross-fire of whatever he's doing.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 05:41:26 pm by Aubren »
Wazhazhe

Darkhawk

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Re: Deal wording help
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2015, 06:49:10 pm »
Quote from: Aubren;184196
EMDR?

 
A form of therapy that is very specifically targetted to taking the sting and adrenaline out of traumatic memories.  It involves a lot of reviewing the memory experiences and watching a light go back and forth.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Sarah

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Re: Deal wording help
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2015, 07:59:38 pm »
Quote from: Aubren;184162
Can't exactly "work" with them without a deal. That's the way they roll. I've communicating with them...ehh...three months?

*Awaits freaking out. I know it's coming.*

But also, they're a pop-culture figure. So they're probably more predictable then, say, a random calling/encounter.

 
communicating with a trickster for three months doesn't seem really like enough time to enter into a binding contract with them.

I also don't think a pop culture trickster is any more reliable than a traditional trickster. A trickster is as a trickster does, if they are not tricksy they are not a trickster.

In all honesty I think this whole scenario is a bad idea. My gods do support me through my trauma healing and through working through the negative stuff in my life but they make it damn clear that I need to do the bulk of the work myself and that the bulk of the work is mundane not magical or spiritual.

I second Darkhawks suggestion of therapy. I know therapy is often expensive but there are sometimes ways round that such as finding someone who offers a sliding scale, or someone who is training and needs to get hours in before they can qualify. Also some charities offer a block of sessions for free to eligible people. If money  continues to be an issue then why not do some prosperity magic or ask your gods to help you find away round it?

If you really can't get any kind of therapy there are other ways of dealing with intrusive, difficult, or upsetting memories. Obviously not everything works for everybody but things that have worked for me include: talking about it with people, writing about it, both writing about what actually happened and writing around it creatively, working through it with music, using pieces of pop culture to either help me processes it or comfort me, Working through the scenarios with  playmobil people

It is also useful to find ways to self sooth for when the memories do become intrusive
Knowing when to use a shovel is what being a witch is all about. Nanny Ogg, Witches Abroad

Jack

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Re: Deal wording help
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2015, 01:39:00 am »
Quote from: Aubren;184197
I've evaluated and I've decided. It's not so much that they're actively trying to fuck me over. I'm already fucked, the lowest point is very close. They don't actually have to do much to tip that point over, if they wanted. And they would almost definitely target the people keeping me afloat, if that's what they wanted.

In other words, if they wanted to fuck me over, then they would either use me to directly ruin my own resources (which I'm quite successful at doing by myself, if you haven't noticed) or they would hurt my own resources by themselves.

Unless they have a long-haul plan where I get better then get swept back again. Which I'm somewhat okay with (except the ending part xD)


Anyways, my main concern is ensuring that he does what I want on my end of the deal. He'll complete his end of the bargain, I just want to ensure that he does it my way. I don't want to hear "Well, it could've meant this thing I'm doing. And I'm doing that, so I've fulfilled my end of the deal!" from him.

And also that I don't get too hurt in the cross-fire of whatever he's doing.

 
Okay, well, my experience of dealing with tricksters is that no matter how smart you think you are being, they'll get what they think is the right thing out of the deal. So the question is more, do you trust this entity to have the same end point as you in mind?

Like, okay, I deal with Loki a lot. I may scream and cry in the middle of whatever Loki sets me up for, but in the big picture, I do honestly believe that he's got something akin to my best interests in mind. If I did not think that was the case, I would not want him fucking around with my shit.

In other words, if you have to word this so precisely, it sounds like you have reason to think the entity in question is not interested in your best interests, or you don't trust that what they think is best for you is what you think is best for you. It's often easier to find someone who's not interesting in circumventing your actual wishes and needs in the name of playing word games than to write an iron-clad contract.

But if you think ending up with a foot-tall pianist is an acceptable outcome, then go for it.
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

Aubren

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Re: Deal wording help
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2015, 04:01:59 am »
Quote from: Darkhawk;184200
A form of therapy that is very specifically targetted to taking the sting and adrenaline out of traumatic memories.  It involves a lot of reviewing the memory experiences and watching a light go back and forth.

 
Except that I'm not trying to move on from just traumatic memories. I'm trying gain the ability to move on from any memory I want to. I don't know how my mom messed it up while raising me, but that part got skipped over somehow and neither friends not myself have been able to fix it.

I have a pretty good idea of what I want to do. I do something similiar with other people. I'm basically just asking for help to get into my own psyche (the way I get other people to) and pull some strings without accidently damaging others.



Also, I'm photosensitive. Artificial light = ouch. A therapy that I don't have to physically suffer thru would be great.
Wazhazhe

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