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Author Topic: Paris Under Siege  (Read 8844 times)

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Paris Under Siege
« on: November 13, 2015, 06:33:48 pm »
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/14/world/europe/paris-shooting-attacks.html

This is a developing story. I feel the way I did after the Boston Marathon bombing, another city I have tremendous affection for. And I worry what this will do to Europe's response to the refugee crisis; France has closed its borders, and who can blame them? And gods help the law-abiding Muslims living in Europe, who are now screwed.

I have so many disparate reactions, I'm not sure what to think. Just keeping Paris and her people in my thoughts.
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Re: Paris Under Siege
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2015, 06:41:55 pm »
Quote from: Altair;182255
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/14/world/europe/paris-shooting-attacks.html

This is a developing story. I feel the way I did after the Boston Marathon bombing, another city I have tremendous affection for. And I worry what this will do to Europe's response to the refugee crisis; France has closed its borders, and who can blame them? And gods help the law-abiding Muslims living in Europe, who are now screwed.

I have so many disparate reactions, I'm not sure what to think. Just keeping Paris and her people in my thoughts.

I was just about to post on this. It's horrible -- and obviously a terrorist attack -- from the reports I'm seeing.  The first suspects don't seem to be the refugees, however, but rather people that have returned to Europe after having fought with various rebel/terrorist groups in the Middle East. A private source tells me that these "returnees" have proved hard to track and have been thought to be planning terrorism in Europe... So why I'm sure the far right in the US will be quick to blame the refugees (and it is certainly possible that terrorists posing as refugees are involved), there are other -- perhaps more likely -- suspects.
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sailor

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Re: Paris Under Siege
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2015, 07:02:24 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;182256
I was just about to post on this. It's horrible -- and obviously a terrorist attack -- from the reports I'm seeing.  The first suspects don't seem to be the refugees, however, but rather people that have returned to Europe after having fought with various rebel/terrorist groups in the Middle East. A private source tells me that these "returnees" have proved hard to track and have been thought to be planning terrorism in Europe... So why I'm sure the far right in the US will be quick to blame the refugees (and it is certainly possible that terrorists posing as refugees are involved), there are other -- perhaps more likely -- suspects.

 
In part the terrorists are returning in the swarm of refugees.  They are "move amongst the people as a fish swims in the sea" to quote Mao.

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Re: Paris Under Siege
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2015, 07:47:11 pm »
Quote from: Altair;182255
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/14/world/europe/paris-shooting-attacks.html

This is a developing story. I feel the way I did after the Boston Marathon bombing, another city I have tremendous affection for. And I worry what this will do to Europe's response to the refugee crisis; France has closed its borders, and who can blame them? And gods help the law-abiding Muslims living in Europe, who are now screwed.

I have so many disparate reactions, I'm not sure what to think. Just keeping Paris and her people in my thoughts.


Borders closed. Apparently DGSE has been given a free hand.  Something tells me Beslen will become a footnote.

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Re: Paris Under Siege
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2015, 08:23:42 pm »
Quote from: Altair;182255
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/14/world/europe/paris-shooting-attacks.html

This is a developing story. I feel the way I did after the Boston Marathon bombing, another city I have tremendous affection for. And I worry what this will do to Europe's response to the refugee crisis; France has closed its borders, and who can blame them? And gods help the law-abiding Muslims living in Europe, who are now screwed.

I have so many disparate reactions, I'm not sure what to think. Just keeping Paris and her people in my thoughts.

 

I saw this about an hour ago at work. My heart hurts for the people there. In the coming days, maybe there is something we can do to help, even if it's donating blood or food or something. Anything. I just want to help.
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sailor

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Re: Paris Under Siege
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2015, 09:13:41 pm »
Quote from: Altair;182255
And I worry what this will do to Europe's response to the refugee crisis; France has closed its borders, and who can blame them? And gods help the law-abiding Muslims living in Europe, who are now screwed.

I have so many disparate reactions, I'm not sure what to think. Just keeping Paris and her people in my thoughts.

 
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/calais-migrant-camp-on-fire-6830330

The response to the refugees just went up a small notch. Keep an eye on Sweden.

At least I don't think I need to pack a bag yet.

RandallS

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Re: Paris Under Siege
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2015, 08:10:46 am »
Quote from: sailor;182257
In part the terrorists are returning in the swarm of refugees.  They are "move amongst the people as a fish swims in the sea" to quote Mao.

I'm sure there are some coming in with the current refugees, but a number of returnees were already in Europe before the current influx of refugees where they've had time to plan all sorts of stuff.
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RandallS

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Re: Paris Under Siege
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2015, 09:25:13 am »
Quote from: Altair;182255



The latest I've seen.

Quote
Hollande called the attacks "an act of war" in a speech Saturday morning local time. "And when faced with war, the country must take appropriate decisions," he said. "An act committed by a terrorist army, DAESH [ISIS], against what we are, a free country that speaks together with the planet."


There are currently 127 dead, 300 wounded (80 critically). All eight known terrorists are dead, 7 by suicide bombing, 1 in a shootout with police.

More in the Article
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Materialist

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Re: Paris Under Siege
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2015, 11:48:31 am »
Quote from: Altair;182255

I have so many disparate reactions, I'm not sure what to think. Just keeping Paris and her people in my thoughts.


I told my mother yesterday I thought world war three was on the horizon, and dammit, I think I'm right. Just finished reading news reports before coming here. On the verge of tears. These Syrian extremists are going to so wear down the emotional endurance of the world that someone is going to drop a nuke on that country and that will be it.

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Re: Paris Under Siege
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2015, 07:03:41 pm »
Quote from: Gaudior;182259
I saw this about an hour ago at work. My heart hurts for the people there. In the coming days, maybe there is something we can do to help, even if it's donating blood or food or something. Anything. I just want to help.

 
I do too. I've been praying, but sometimes- especially in times like this- prayer seems so futile. I want to do something concrete; something that I know will help, even a little.

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Re: Paris Under Siege
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2015, 07:57:48 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;182265
I'm sure there are some coming in with the current refugees, but a number of returnees were already in Europe before the current influx of refugees where they've had time to plan all sorts of stuff.

 
25% so far.  8 attackers, of which at least two had passports from a Greek refugee center.

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Re: Paris Under Siege
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2015, 06:07:16 pm »
Quote from: sailor;182288
25% so far.  8 attackers, of which at least two had passports from a Greek refugee center.


And now the emotional backlash from this event. European commenters on the news stories generally express a desire to close all borders to Muslim/Middle Eastern/North African refugees; deport all Muslims and refugees; or kill all Muslims and refugees in one's country. Jeb Bush has stated that only Christian refugees should be allowed asylum, Muslims not being permitted to enter the country.

In a video clip from ISIS representatives, they constantly referred to Europeans as "crusaders." Old sins, long shadows. They have not forgotten the genocide wreaked by Crusaders on the natives during the Middle Ages, where Jewish refugees were denied sanctuary in European countries unless they converted to Christianity.

Jews have probably not forgotten how the U.S. refused sanctuary to refugees in WW2, sending them back to their deaths. Muslims are the new Jews now. Hundreds of thousands have been killed by ISIS for not subscribing to their bizarre interpretation of scripture, and a thousand more are killed every day. Ethnic minorities are being deliberately rounded up and executed by the thousands as well.

ISIS is happy by European and Usonan bloodlust against Muslims-they want us to kill off their theological rivals so they don't have to do go through the trouble of sneaking into the country. But they would also be just as happy if we deported all Muslims to their doorstep so they can have the pleasure of killing them by the millions upon millions, until only ISIS remains as the body of Islam.

If the world turns against Muslims and refugees now, there will be such a genocide that the world would never recover from the trauma.

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Re: Paris Under Siege
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2015, 08:58:12 pm »
Quote from: Materialist;182305

If the world turns against Muslims and refugees now, there will be such a genocide that the world would never recover from the trauma.


Cobbling together various sources:http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/06/17/world/middleeast/map-isis-attacks-around-the-world.html?_r=0

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/09/world/middleeast/number-of-syrian-refugees-climbs-to-more-than-4-million.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2792552/full-horror-yazidis-didn-t-escape-mount-sinjar-confirms-5-000-men-executed-7-000-women-kept-sex-slaves.html

http://roarmag.org/2015/01/yazidi-refugees-turkey

And a Wikipedia article entitled "Casualties of the Syrian Civil War."

One grasps the magnitude of what these Syrian radicals have done to the world.

Murders claimed by ISIS affiliates:

Algeria: 2
Canada: 2
Australia: 2
Libya: 103
Egypt: 307
Denmark: 2
Tunisia: 60
Yemen: 245
Saudi Arabia: 41
Afghanistan: 10
France: 129
Turkey: 32
Lebanon: 43
Iraq: 5,000 Yazidis

Total: 5,997

Deaths claimed by the Syrian Civil War: 220,000

Refugees of the Yazidi genocide: 36,000

Refugees of the Syrian Civil War: 4,000,000

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Re: Paris Under Siege
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2015, 09:39:50 pm »
Quote from: Materialist;182305
And now the emotional backlash from this event. European commenters on the news stories generally express a desire to close all borders to Muslim/Middle Eastern/North African refugees; deport all Muslims and refugees; or kill all Muslims and refugees in one's country. Jeb Bush has stated that only Christian refugees should be allowed asylum, Muslims not being permitted to enter the country.

What do you expect from right-wing politicians?

That said, There are a lot of Muslim countries that could be taking in many of these refugees, but are not. Turkey is overloaded with them -- something like 50% of the refugees from Syria, but very few other Muslim countries are taking in any (except in some cases as way-stops on the way to Europe).
« Last Edit: November 15, 2015, 09:40:19 pm by RandallS »
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Re: Paris Under Siege
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2015, 11:48:49 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;182307


That said, There are a lot of Muslim countries that could be taking in many of these refugees, but are not.


Huh. Why is that?  
I don't think the news outlets have commented on this either.  Why is that?

In related news, France's retaliation has been swift and brutal. Can't say that I blame them.  The next couple of days will be... interesting.  As if the times we live in weren't interesting enough.
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