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Author Topic: Being Pagan and Dating  (Read 2919 times)

Demophon

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Being Pagan and Dating
« on: September 02, 2015, 06:49:03 pm »
I read this article recently by one of my favourite pagan Youtubers/bloggers: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/oathbound/2015/07/dating-the-witch-or-not/

I haven't really been interested in dating myself recently, but I could relate to some of what was mentioned in the article, and was wondering what other people's experiences were. It's difficult to meet like-minded people for the purposes of dating in a fringe religious group where the community is already pretty small, and I like her criticisms of the cultural narrative of marriage and family that people in our society are conditioned into wanting. I personally have always struggled with the idea of marriage, as I think it's an inherently patriarchal institution, even if people don't (consciously) think of it that way. Long-term partnership doesn't necessarily appeal to me... except when everyone I know starts pairing off and I feel like I'm going to end up bitter and alone, but what can you do?

Just wondering what other people's experiences are with dating and relationships, and how being a witch/pagan/however you identify has effected that.

Darkhawk

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Re: Being Pagan and Dating
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2015, 10:12:02 pm »
Quote from: Demophon;179480


 
I often find it odd that many people see "being a co-religionist" as being a significant priority for a partner.  I have... not seen a lot of evidence that it correlates strongly with compatibility?

I mean, I got dumped for being pagan once (or that was the handy excuse, I suspect I actually got dumped for being weird and obsessive), but I was fifteen and he was fourteen, and I don't expect a whole lot of maturity in relationships at that age. :P

For a long time, the most religiously compatible partner I had ever had was a Methodist.  We agreed on what was important.  (Also, once he prayed for help with a relationship problem we were having and got an answer from Set, which was fucking hilarious.)
as the water grinds the stone
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as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Jabberwocky

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Re: Being Pagan and Dating
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2015, 10:53:37 pm »
Quote from: Demophon;179480


Just wondering what other people's experiences are with dating and relationships, and how being a witch/pagan/however you identify has effected that.

 
I've dated a fair bit and had several serious long term relationships (I'm in one of the latter now).

It's really never been an issue for me.  Admittedly, I mostly date 'alternative' types, which may help.

But like Darkhawk, I don't care about spirituality compatibility in that way.  As long as they don't think I need "saving" on the issue and don't constantly take the piss (I don't offend easily, but it gets tiresome quickly), that's fine.

Actually, the one time I did date someone with a background in chaos magic it was a flashing red lights Bad Idea.

Not so much spiritually, but because we were too alike.

In particular, we were both used to other people telling us when we were about to overstep the line.  So it quickly spiraled into constantly trying to outdo each other and four day drug binges.

She originally introduced herself to me at a party with the immortal line "we're blatantly the two coolest people here.  Want to make out?"  That's both the kind of chat up line I'm very susceptible and the kind of chat up line used by someone I really shouldn't get romantically involved with because of the influence we'll have on each other.

Don't get me wrong, it was a lot of fun. And I still look back on that relationship and her with a lot of fondness.  But with the benefit of hindsight, it really wasn't a relationship that was good for either of us and it's lucky it didn't last that long.
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RandallS

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Re: Being Pagan and Dating
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2015, 08:07:22 am »
Quote from: Demophon;179480
Just wondering what other people's experiences are with dating and relationships, and how being a witch/pagan/however you identify has effected that.

I'm married now, but when I was dating, religion wasn't high on my list of requirements, other than not thinking I needed saving or was "evil" because of my religious beliefs. Many of the people I dated over the years were at least nominally Christian.
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Re: Being Pagan and Dating
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2015, 11:19:01 am »
Quote from: Demophon;179480
I read this article recently by one of my favourite pagan Youtubers/bloggers: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/oathbound/2015/07/dating-the-witch-or-not/

I haven't really been interested in dating myself recently, but I could relate to some of what was mentioned in the article, and was wondering what other people's experiences were. It's difficult to meet like-minded people for the purposes of dating in a fringe religious group where the community is already pretty small, and I like her criticisms of the cultural narrative of marriage and family that people in our society are conditioned into wanting. I personally have always struggled with the idea of marriage, as I think it's an inherently patriarchal institution, even if people don't (consciously) think of it that way. Long-term partnership doesn't necessarily appeal to me... except when everyone I know starts pairing off and I feel like I'm going to end up bitter and alone, but what can you do?

Just wondering what other people's experiences are with dating and relationships, and how being a witch/pagan/however you identify has effected that.
I recently began dating again, been divorced for a bout a year, and thought it was time to start. I've been on a few dates, and as soon as I bring up the fact that I'm pagan, they seem to automatically write me off. It is very disconcerting. Need to find a like minded person, but that's hard here in Texas. I'm hopeful I will some day though.
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Weatherwax

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Re: Being Pagan and Dating
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2015, 02:21:50 pm »
I don't think I have ever dated anyone who *was* pagan. But then, I've never dated anyone who was religious either. I guess I might have had a hard time with someone who was deeply religious in a monotheistic faith but not because of beliefs, more because of lifestyle. My partner is an agnostic/pantheistic/atheist whatever who loves listening to me talking about various religious traditions and mythologies so we get along fine. I don't think I'd feel comfortable doing any sort of -obvious- ritual around him but I'm not comfortable doing it around someone other than me in general.

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Re: Being Pagan and Dating
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2015, 02:22:25 pm »
Quote from: Weatherwax;179506
I don't think I have ever dated anyone who *was* pagan. But then, I've never dated anyone who was religious either. I guess I might have had a hard time with someone who was deeply religious in a monotheistic faith but not because of beliefs, more because of lifestyle. My partner is an agnostic/pantheistic/atheist whatever who loves listening to me talking about various religious traditions and mythologies so we get along fine. I don't think I'd feel comfortable doing any sort of -obvious- ritual around him but I'm not comfortable doing it around someone other than me in general.

 
sorry that got posted without quoting the original post because tapatalk. :(

Demophon

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Re: Being Pagan and Dating
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2015, 05:11:04 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;179485
I often find it odd that many people see "being a co-religionist" as being a significant priority for a partner.  I have... not seen a lot of evidence that it correlates strongly with compatibility?.


Fair. I usually find that I don't even have much in common with my co-religionists, so even meeting people who share my religious views isn't very helpful. Maybe it's more about finding someone who doesn't inhibit one's religious interests and practices, not necessarily someone who shares them.

Quote from: Darkhawk;179485
I mean, I got dumped for being pagan once (or that was the handy excuse, I suspect I actually got dumped for being weird and obsessive), but I was fifteen and he was fourteen, and I don't expect a whole lot of maturity in relationships at that age. :P


LOL. We've probably all been there at some point. I might still be weird and obsessive :p
 
Quote from: Cryfder;179499
I recently began dating again, been divorced for a bout a year, and thought it was time to start. I've been on a few dates, and as soon as I bring up the fact that I'm pagan, they seem to automatically write me off. It is very disconcerting. Need to find a like minded person, but that's hard here in Texas. I'm hopeful I will some day though.


I'm sure you will :)

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Re: Being Pagan and Dating
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2015, 11:06:03 pm »
Quote from: Demophon;179480
I read this article recently by one of my favourite pagan Youtubers/bloggers: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/oathbound/2015/07/dating-the-witch-or-not/

I haven't really been interested in dating myself recently, but I could relate to some of what was mentioned in the article, and was wondering what other people's experiences were. It's difficult to meet like-minded people for the purposes of dating in a fringe religious group where the community is already pretty small, and I like her criticisms of the cultural narrative of marriage and family that people in our society are conditioned into wanting. I personally have always struggled with the idea of marriage, as I think it's an inherently patriarchal institution, even if people don't (consciously) think of it that way. Long-term partnership doesn't necessarily appeal to me... except when everyone I know starts pairing off and I feel like I'm going to end up bitter and alone, but what can you do?

Just wondering what other people's experiences are with dating and relationships, and how being a witch/pagan/however you identify has effected that.

 
In my experience, I've not had much luck. Then again I think that's due to the simple fact that my religiosity is way out there, even for people on the fringe. You walk into my home, see my altar to Hekate with the ritual skull on it that's used for rites of necromancy, and my section of my bookshelves devoted to grimoires and rites of demonolatry. That becomes the deal breaker. Granted, I don't bring it up in casual conversation but it is a part of my practice. I do believe that there is a certain level that people are prepared to handle of alternative lifestyles. Go past that limit and you'll quickly find yourself alone.

Unfortunately that level seems to come up quick anymore, but that could be just my experience. Yours may vary.
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Re: Being Pagan and Dating
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2015, 03:33:24 am »
Quote from: Darkhawk;179485
I often find it odd that many people see "being a co-religionist" as being a significant priority for a partner.  I have... not seen a lot of evidence that it correlates strongly with compatibility?

Here, let me explain.

Religion shapes beliefs and choice of beliefs shape your chosen religion.
Therefore, you should find someone with similar opinions.

In my experience, as relevant to real life encounters only:

•Christians have a tendency to push. Even when not actively proselytizing, even amongst the open minded ones, they seem to have this "believe me!" aura. More so than other people. Like they've got an agenda etched into their psyche.
I don't need that.

•Atheists/agnostics sometimes say that they're okay with other religions. But a lot of them are anti-religion or at least apathetic to other's spiritual life. As someone who feels religious experiences are an important thing to share with a partner, this tends to go...badly. They don't want to deal with it, I feel invalidated, they get annoyed...generally a sucky situation.

•Wiccans have a strong feminine/masculine dichtomony. As a genderfluid, my genders frequently overlap with eachother. And sometimes I'm just agender. And I don't feel a "third gender" but I acknowledge that there are more genders then fem/masc, even as energies.
So we both have a conflicting understanding of the world.
Also, I've met more than a few white Wiccans using pseudo/Native American items, songs, rituals, etc. They can justify their use all they want, but I am automatically suspicious of intent.
Even if they are well studied, what have they done to help the tribe? Where is the trade?



Now, imagine this perspective from someone with a very popular religion.
You can have all sorts of personalities under the same belief structure. Why risk falling deeply in love with someone who has a conflicting world view?

It's a bit like people refusing to date outside of their political inclinations, or a vegan refusing to date an omnivore (or vice versa).

You might strike gold, but you have an easier chance finding it within your world.

Side note: I haven't dated anyone who was *currently* pagan, but I'm inclined to do so to experiment.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 03:40:26 am by Aubren »
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Re: Being Pagan and Dating
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2015, 07:56:23 am »
Quote from: Aubren;180810
You can have all sorts of personalities under the same belief structure. Why risk falling deeply in love with someone who has a conflicting world view?

Perhaps one considers love more important than "not having a conflicting world view"? When dated, "thinks like me" was never that high a priority for me. Doesn't hate who I am was a high priority, but one can be very different from me without hating what I am.
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Re: Being Pagan and Dating
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2015, 10:34:52 am »
Quote from: Demophon;179516
Maybe it's more about finding someone who doesn't inhibit one's religious interests and practices, not necessarily someone who shares them.


Just wanted to touch on this real quick, because I think that this is a very important distinction.  I don't think I could be in a relationship with someone who inhibited me (religiously or otherwise).  And while my preference has been to find someone that I could actually practice with, that point has passed and my marriage works.
 
Quote from: Demophon;179480

Just wondering what other people's experiences are with dating and relationships, and how being a witch/pagan/however you identify has effected that.

 
This is going to be long...fair warning!

To start, I am married, and have been now for 17 years.  My husband is a pretty vocal Atheist and doesn't really understand how people can be religious.  We are both pretty outspoken and definitely have been some great shouting fights over the years, though none of them have been about my faith or practice.  He is actually quite supportive of ME, and encourages me to meet with my Pagan friends and attend rituals and pretty much anything else that he thinks I would like.

Ironically, I thought he was a Satanist when we met.  I think a part of him did too (though now he will say he didn't actually believe any of it, that it was just something he was doing because it was 'cool'...yes we met when we were in our late teens).  But we met at a goth club, and I was very out at the time, so he knew what I did from the start, and I knew what he thought he did.

Before that, I had always had this fantasy of meeting someone who was also a practicing witch, and having this kind of Charmed (the TV show) life.  I sort of had that for a while.  I had been working with this guy for a while, and we dated, and I really loved him.  We were actually engaged, and then I spectacularly messed it all up.  At the time I was pretty broken up about it (he wasn't as much, so I think either he knew we weren't that great of a love match or he truly did just want me to be happy), but several years later I found out that he had become a pretty devout Christian, so I am kind of glad that we weren't together.

I have several friends who are Pagan and have very different relationships.  One couple (both Pagan) are married, and they have a long term Pagan roommate.  They are definitely a family, they all love each other, but the roommate is not a sexual partner.  I have another friend who has two men she lives with.  She is Pagan, they are not.  They also date others, so definitely not a traditional relationship.  I know two other multiple partner households, where at least two of the partners are Pagan (not sure about the third in either of them).

I think people are very complex, and there are way more ways of 'making it work' than the traditional nuclear family.  I am always seeing families on TV/Movies and having a moment of "are we doing it wrong?".  My husband and I are huge gamers, so we tend to have gaming night as opposed to date night.  We definitely have things we like that the other isn't in to.  I know for a fact he can't stand most of my music.  But at the end of the day, we love each other, and we have found ways to adjust around the other person and make our marriage work.
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Darkhawk

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Re: Being Pagan and Dating
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2015, 07:09:01 pm »
Quote from: Aubren;180810
Religion shapes beliefs and choice of beliefs shape your chosen religion.
Therefore, you should find someone with similar opinions.


And yet for a very long time the person I'd been involved with whose actual theological perspective, whose opinions in other words, were most similar to mine was a Methodist.

(One of my current partners tops that, but he's not a co-religionist either, even though he is pagan.)

Quote
You can have all sorts of personalities under the same belief structure. Why risk falling deeply in love with someone who has a conflicting world view?


That strikes me as a self-solving problem, as people whose worldviews are actively unfriendly to me are unattractive to me, and thus the issue does not arise.

Quote
You might strike gold, but you have an easier chance finding it within your world.

 
Now, you see, I don't disagree with this, per se; finding something that sorts on compatibility is important rather than trying to find people who may or may not share important traits.  But the world that's most actually relevant to finding partners for me if I look at things historically is "gamers".  (One exception to that.  Who is a gamer now.)

I have literally never met a co-religionist who was romantically attractive to me, ever, so if I tried to limit myself that way I would be very, very lonely, rather than in a busy household.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

EclecticWheel

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Re: Being Pagan and Dating
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2015, 01:45:27 am »
Quote from: Aubren;180810


Here, let me explain.

Religion shapes beliefs and choice of beliefs shape your chosen religion.
Therefore, you should find someone with similar opinions.

In my experience, as relevant to real life encounters only:

•Christians have a tendency to push. Even when not actively proselytizing, even amongst the open minded ones, they seem to have this "believe me!" aura. More so than other people. Like they've got an agenda etched into their psyche.
I don't need that.

•Atheists/agnostics sometimes say that they're okay with other religions. But a lot of them are anti-religion or at least apathetic to other's spiritual life. As someone who feels religious experiences are an important thing to share with a partner, this tends to go...badly. They don't want to deal with it, I feel invalidated, they get annoyed...generally a sucky situation.

•Wiccans have a strong feminine/masculine dichtomony. As a genderfluid, my genders frequently overlap with eachother. And sometimes I'm just agender. And I don't feel a "third gender" but I acknowledge that there are more genders then fem/masc, even as energies.
So we both have a conflicting understanding of the world.
Also, I've met more than a few white Wiccans using pseudo/Native American items, songs, rituals, etc. They can justify their use all they want, but I am automatically suspicious of intent.
Even if they are well studied, what have they done to help the tribe? Where is the trade?



Now, imagine this perspective from someone with a very popular religion.
You can have all sorts of personalities under the same belief structure. Why risk falling deeply in love with someone who has a conflicting world view?

It's a bit like people refusing to date outside of their political inclinations, or a vegan refusing to date an omnivore (or vice versa).

You might strike gold, but you have an easier chance finding it within your world.

Side note: I haven't dated anyone who was *currently* pagan, but I'm inclined to do so to experiment.

Hmm, I haven't had much experience dating and much of it was shitty.  I am probably going to be single for a looong time if not forever, at least if I don't get out of this place...  Although I live in the Bible belt I do not generally have to deal with evangelical or pushy types of Christians in the dating scene probably because I'm gay.  Generally speaking Christianity does not appeal to gays in this area because its public expression with few exceptions is rampantly homophobic in my corner of the world.

But I have run into other issues concerning religion.  This isn't limited to the gay men I've dated, but many people in my age group (twenty-something) seem to despise all things religious of whatever form including eclectic spirituality or religions that do not seek to convert.  Unfortunately that could be a problem if I'm dating again because my house contains obvious shrines and ritual tools and books on a wide variety of religions.  Often times I disguise some of it and keep certain things out of sight if people are coming over, but it's hard to conceal everything.  It can really throw off even non-religious people because it's not possible to pin down what I believe or what I'm doing by these things, either, and I've had to reassure my family repeatedly that I'm not doing anything wicked and evil even though they are not religious.

I've never required that my potential partners' religious practices should be similar to my own -- I kind of like the idea of dating someone with different ideas and practices than myself -- but I don't think I could be with someone who despised all religion.  Such a person could never fully connect with me.  And I'm sick of hearing that mythology is the same thing as a fairy tale or that all religion without exception is nonsense.  And if I'm living with someone who will be aware of or even potentially witness some of my solitary rites, I couldn't possibly bear to have them denigrated.  Most likely I'd be more compatible with someone who was at least interested in religions but my bottom line is that the person is respectful.

The man who had the most respect for my beliefs and practices was a Chaos Mage.  Unfortunately our lives and schedules took us separate ways, though he had invited me on a date.  Ah, well.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 01:52:06 am by EclecticWheel »
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

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Re: Being Pagan and Dating
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2015, 07:27:35 pm »
Quote from: Demophon;179480

Just wondering what other people's experiences are with dating and relationships, and how being a witch/pagan/however you identify has effected that.


This topic has always been a rough one for me.

At about the same time I discovered my Path was the same time the doors opened to the battlefield of establishing deeper, interpersonal relationships. I was not encouraged aka forbidden to date until college age, so my experiences have been very much, let’s wing it. It also doesn’t help I live in a region where people meet their friends early and keep small, closed groups. Decent counter-culture interest groups are especially hard to find and to break in to.

I tirelessly spent my time from 18-22 attempting to find that ONE person, the other half, the soulmate, etc, etc. Since I established my Path as following the Kemetic deities, I wanted someone who was also on a parallel path, because I felt that person would be the only one to accept me. It didn't do me much good, as I caused much pain to myself and others with me having unrealistic expectations.

When I hit 22 I made a decision. Part of me having fulfillment in a relationship is to be able to have equal footing. I carry half of my baggage and my partner would help carry some of the bags that are too heavy. In turn, I would be the same for my partner. It would be a fluid arrangement. Since I didn't know who I was or what I wanted, I decided that until I learned about myself, I would not enter a commitment that a "deep" interpersonal relationship would entail.

As the years have gone on, I found that I was more concerned about who the person is, rather than what labels they hold. I found that with how deeply I'm tied to my path as an individual, a person is not going to practice EXACTLY like how I do. I was disheartened at first, but then I remembered the measure I have for what I do is MY responsibility. I should not be using others a justification of, "hey I'm doing it right, because I have this person who does it too." My yearning for that same path-walking person wasn't about the person, it was about my own loneliness. I have since discovered the ability to share thoughts is better for me than to experience shared experiences (although inside-jokes are fantastic).

I decided to end my relationship hermitage, and started to date someone when I was 27. My partner was a Nordic Heathen who followed Odin. I felt it was going fairly well. I could be open about what I did, I related to him, trusted him, and I didn't feel like I was treading on thin ice. However, about four months in, I was dumped.

I was dumped because I decided to carry all of my baggage and I didn't run from my issues (work, money problems, emotional issues, etc.). I became the constant reminder that he has been running from every difficulty throughout the years (which I never judged him on and tried to be supportive). It was a 15 second conversation which was basically, “You’re not fulfilling my need, because you’re not dependent on me”. In other words, he wanted me to be something I’m not, and I wasn’t going to change for him.
 
So ironically, when I cemented my sense of self so to speak and felt ready to date again that concrete sense of self became the very reason I was dumped.

Kind people will be kind people, and jerks will be jerks no matter what labels they hold themselves to. The only requirement I have is that my path and my choices in life are accepted. I don’t mean tolerated. I mean accepted for what they are, and I’m accepted for who I am. It started out with me thinking  at 18 “only other Pagans can relate to me” to me being 29, “I just need to get better at finding decent people”.

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