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Author Topic: Do I belong in Asatru?  (Read 3058 times)

Waldron

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Do I belong in Asatru?
« on: July 23, 2015, 01:31:42 pm »
I feel attracted to Asatru more than any other pagan religion, I am enthralled by the Norse Gods and I relate myself and agree with the nine noble virtues, but I’m someone who seeks for truth, the answers to the questions of life, who questions everything in that sense I’m closer to Hellenic paganism and Numinism. So before I become Asatruar I have a few questions.

Never read anything philosophical on Asatru, however in Numinism is said that all religions at the core are the same and that we should seek for our own truth and I agree, but there doesn’t seem to be that in Asatru. Why isn’t none of this mentioned in Asatru? What is the view on Asatru of these questions?

I agree with Asatruar’s philosophy of life, that we are part of nature, that respect must be earned, that we have the responsibility to care and improve our community, but there are thoughts that I have that aren’t even mentioned when I read about Asatru, such as why we are here, who am I, the questions of life in general. It’s the only thing that keeps me from becoming an Asatruar. It’s hard to make a decision like this.

Should I be Asatruar or Numinism or Hellenic Paganism that seem to be more appropriated for a person of reason like me?

Thank you.

rinceoir

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Re: Do I belong in Asatru?
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2015, 03:12:46 pm »
Quote from: Waldron;177720
I feel attracted to Asatru more than any other pagan religion, I am enthralled by the Norse Gods and I relate myself and agree with the nine noble virtues, but I’m someone who seeks for truth, the answers to the questions of life, who questions everything in that sense I’m closer to Hellenic paganism and Numinism. So before I become Asatruar I have a few questions.

Never read anything philosophical on Asatru, however in Numinism is said that all religions at the core are the same and that we should seek for our own truth and I agree, but there doesn’t seem to be that in Asatru. Why isn’t none of this mentioned in Asatru? What is the view on Asatru of these questions?

I agree with Asatruar’s philosophy of life, that we are part of nature, that respect must be earned, that we have the responsibility to care and improve our community, but there are thoughts that I have that aren’t even mentioned when I read about Asatru, such as why we are here, who am I, the questions of life in general. It’s the only thing that keeps me from becoming an Asatruar. It’s hard to make a decision like this.

Should I be Asatruar or Numinism or Hellenic Paganism that seem to be more appropriated for a person of reason like me?

Thank you.

 
I can't speak to Ásatrú, so I'll leave that to others who actually know about it. But I don't believe you should feel the need to shoehorn yourself into a particular belief system. If you are more attracted to Ásatrú, why not continue to explore the religion, philosophy, and practices associated with it? You could make some offerings, participate in ritual, and continue to learn and explore what it is and how you feel about it. If, eventually, you do not feel that is your path, you can always step off in another direction. Just because one part of your personality doesn't appear to conform to the basics of a path on the surface doesn't mean you can't walk that path or it isn't for you. I think reason and questioning is a valuable trait no matter what religion one follows.

So, in sum, I don't think you should let the fact that you don't feel 100% a perfect match to a particular path stop you from exploring it. I doubt very much there are many people who fit in 100% with all the tenets, practices, philosophies, etc. of their chosen religion.

RecycledBenedict

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Re: Do I belong in Asatru?
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2015, 03:16:24 pm »
Quote from: Waldron;177720
(...) and I relate myself and agree with the nine noble virtues,


Just keep in mind that the list of nine noble virtues is recent, and is not an infallible sacred scripture. There are more virtues than the nine.

Quote from: Waldron;177720
Should I be Asatruar or Numinism or Hellenic Paganism that seem to be more appropriated for a person of reason like me?


No one is able to stop you from worshipping whichever deities you feel drawn to. For the sake of integrity, it would, however, be wise to keep each distinct ritual apart from the others, i.e. not adore the Greek deities blot style or vice versa.

It is perfectly possible to both play the piano and play tennis, but not in the same time slot of the schedule, and probably not in exactly the same physical surroundings.

Jainarayan

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Re: Do I belong in Asatru?
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2015, 09:37:34 am »
Quote from: Waldron;177720

Never read anything philosophical on Asatru


That's because there really is none. Anything philosophical is modern day, and possibly upg and mus (made up shit). The Norse (and other Germanics) did not have time to sit and ponder things like the Greeks or Indians did. Greece and India produced some great philosophies, but the Norse had all to do to survive. They prayed to the gods, ancestors and wights to get a good harvest, to get them through the winter, and to keep rival tribes out of their hair.

Quote
however in Numinism is said that all religions at the core are the same and that we should seek for our own truth and I agree, but there doesn’t seem to be that in Asatru. Why isn’t none of this mentioned in Asatru? What is the view on Asatru of these questions?


See above about philosophy. Live and let live is an idea the Norse held, and by extension, Ásatrú has it. Heathenism (Ásatrú is actually an Icelandic subset of Heathenism) says "I have my Gods, you have yours, it's all good and we'll leave it at that".

Quote
I agree with Asatruar’s philosophy of life, that we are part of nature, that respect must be earned, that we have the responsibility to care and improve our community, but there are thoughts that I have that aren’t even mentioned when I read about Asatru, such as why we are here, who am I, the questions of life in general. It’s the only thing that keeps me from becoming an Asatruar. It’s hard to make a decision like this.


We're here because shit happens. :p That is, the universe came into existence. We don't know or care why. The how is explained by the myth, which no one takes literally. Odin and his brothers created the world, maybe because they were bored. We don't know or care. What we care about is living this life as best we can. We don't even fret over the afterlife; as you've probably seen, there are several beliefs about it. Heathenry focuses on this life, because again, getting through the day was hard enough for the Germanic peoples.

Quote
Should I be Asatruar or Numinism or Hellenic Paganism that seem to be more appropriated for a person of reason like me?

Thank you.

 
Cop out answer: only you can decide that.

Jainarayan

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Re: Do I belong in Asatru?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2015, 09:49:14 am »
Quote from: FraterBenedict;177725
Just keep in mind that the list of nine noble virtues is recent, and is not an infallible sacred scripture. There are more virtues than the nine.


^That.

Some really conservative Heathens detest the NNV because they are modern. But not everything modern is bad. Personally I think they are a good start. I have the picture of the pouty-lipped Viking with the NNV listed. You know...



It's kind of telling that the NNV were created by the Odinic Rite, because the valknut is a symbol of Odin.

Quote
No one is able to stop you from worshipping whichever deities you feel drawn to. For the sake of integrity, it would, however, be wise to keep each distinct ritual apart from the others, i.e. not adore the Greek deities blot style or vice versa.


^That too.

I still revere and like the Hindu deities, and have a shrine of sorts. It's not a proper shrine because when I'm in the recliner my feet point towards it. Be that as it may, if I pray or offer to them (extremely rare, but I like the bhajans, devotional songs and music) I do so outside of any offerings, rituals or blót to the Norse Gods.

Waldron

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Re: Do I belong in Asatru?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2015, 01:46:30 pm »
Quote from: rinceoir;177724
I can't speak to Ásatrú, so I'll leave that to others who actually know about it. But I don't believe you should feel the need to shoehorn yourself into a particular belief system. If you are more attracted to Ásatrú, why not continue to explore the religion, philosophy, and practices associated with it? You could make some offerings, participate in ritual, and continue to learn and explore what it is and how you feel about it. If, eventually, you do not feel that is your path, you can always step off in another direction. Just because one part of your personality doesn't appear to conform to the basics of a path on the surface doesn't mean you can't walk that path or it isn't for you. I think reason and questioning is a valuable trait no matter what religion one follows.

So, in sum, I don't think you should let the fact that you don't feel 100% a perfect match to a particular path stop you from exploring it. I doubt very much there are many people who fit in 100% with all the tenets, practices, philosophies, etc. of their chosen religion.


Thank you, that’s helpful. But the reason I feel attracted to it is mostly because I know it better than the other pagan paths, I feel attracted to the others too when I read about them, though for different reasons and not as much attracted. But anyway, you’re right I should follow it and later if I feel it’s not my path I should change.


Quote from: Thorbjorn;177749
That's because there really is none. Anything philosophical is modern day, and possibly upg and mus (made up shit). The Norse (and other Germanics) did not have time to sit and ponder things like the Greeks or Indians did. Greece and India produced some great philosophies, but the Norse had all to do to survive. They prayed to the gods, ancestors and wights to get a good harvest, to get them through the winter, and to keep rival tribes out of their hair.

See above about philosophy. Live and let live is an idea the Norse held, and by extension, Ásatrú has it. Heathenism (Ásatrú is actually an Icelandic subset of Heathenism) says "I have my Gods, you have yours, it's all good and we'll leave it at that".


That's helpful too, thank you.

I see, they were more focused on survival, I'm different, I'm more interested on answers. I think you're right, but I remember a scene from the serie Vikings in which Floki says "I feel trapped by all this happiness", I think that's exactly how I would feel if I sought for and found just happiness. This show seems to be very accurated when it comes to the vikings and has many instrospective things, but I'm not sure if I should take in consideration, it could be something the writers just wanted to add and not how some vikings really were.

Quote from: Thorbjorn;177749
We're here because shit happens. :p That is, the universe came into existence. We don't know or care why. The how is explained by the myth, which no one takes literally. Odin and his brothers created the world, maybe because they were bored. We don't know or care. What we care about is living this life as best we can. We don't even fret over the afterlife; as you've probably seen, there are several beliefs about it. Heathenry focuses on this life, because again, getting through the day was hard enough for the Germanic peoples.


I'm sorry, but can I ask you one more question?
Do you think it would be offensive to the Gods if I sought for the answer to why they created us? I care a lot about these things.

Jainarayan

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Re: Do I belong in Asatru?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2015, 02:22:58 pm »
Quote from: Waldron;177758
...I remember a scene from the serie Vikings in which Floki says "I feel trapped by all this happiness"


I didn't see that scene, but knowing Floki, he had a bit of a sarcastic and cynical streak.

Quote
Do you think it would be offensive to the Gods if I sought for the answer to why they created us?

 
No, I don't think anything except outright blasphemy and breaking frith and trust with anyone, or breaking an oath would offend the Gods. They're a pretty chill bunch. There are a lot of conservative Heathens who say the Gods really don't give a crap about us because they have bigger fish to fry. These people say we should turn to our ancestors and the wights for help rather than the Gods.

That said, Odin is a God of wisdom and knowledge. He is the wanderer, always looking for answers. I do not think he, of all Gods, would look down on your endeavor. You might ask him for guidance. However, I would caution you about asking too much of Odin. Odin has his own agenda and can be exacting in getting his due for a favor. He even says in the Hávamál, stanza 145:

Better no prayer than too big an offering,
By thy getting measure thy gift;
Better is none than too big a sacrifice.


This means because of the gifting cycle and concept of reciprocity, it's unwise to ask for too much. You must give a gift of at least equal value, and that may not be possible. As a side note, it's considered bad form to offer a gift to someone when you know that to return a gift is beyond their means.

Holdasown

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Re: Do I belong in Asatru?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2015, 03:12:06 pm »
Quote from: Waldron;177720
I feel attracted to Asatru more than any other pagan religion, I am enthralled by the Norse Gods and I relate myself and agree with the nine noble virtues, but I’m someone who seeks for truth, the answers to the questions of life, who questions everything in that sense I’m closer to Hellenic paganism and Numinism. So before I become Asatruar I have a few questions.

Never read anything philosophical on Asatru, however in Numinism is said that all religions at the core are the same and that we should seek for our own truth and I agree, but there doesn’t seem to be that in Asatru. Why isn’t none of this mentioned in Asatru? What is the view on Asatru of these questions?

I agree with Asatruar’s philosophy of life, that we are part of nature, that respect must be earned, that we have the responsibility to care and improve our community, but there are thoughts that I have that aren’t even mentioned when I read about Asatru, such as why we are here, who am I, the questions of life in general. It’s the only thing that keeps me from becoming an Asatruar. It’s hard to make a decision like this.

Should I be Asatruar or Numinism or Hellenic Paganism that seem to be more appropriated for a person of reason like me?

Thank you.


You are more than welcome to do as you want. I would recommend not slapping any labels on anything too early. Keep looking and if you feel like you need to identify with it use the term for yourself. As far as why are we here, Odin is the wonderer, always seeking knowledge. If you have questions he would be a great guide to look to. He will also not hide anything and present hard truths so be ready. You can find the Eddas online. I would start by reading them and a small altar to Odin if you can. Just a candle and cup to start off. And just spend some time there. Definitely keep the rituals and spaces separate.

Waldron

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Re: Do I belong in Asatru?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2015, 09:14:21 am »
Quote from: Thorbjorn;177759
I didn't see that scene, but knowing Floki, he had a bit of a sarcastic and cynical streak.


Actually Floki wasn’t been sarcastic at all on this scene. He is talking to Helga and she says that he is free to leave her and their daughter. I would have to watch again to remember more. It’s true that Floki is sarcastic, but sometimes he can be a very introspective person.


Anyway, thank you all for the answers, they were very helpful.

rinceoir

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Re: Do I belong in Asatru?
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2015, 03:15:54 pm »
Quote from: Waldron;177758
Thank you, that’s helpful. But the reason I feel attracted to it is mostly because I know it better than the other pagan paths, I feel attracted to the others too when I read about them, though for different reasons and not as much attracted. But anyway, you’re right I should follow it and later if I feel it’s not my path I should change.

 
In that case, while it would probably also be helpful to do some practice within Ásatrú, remember to keep reading and keep learning! You might end up being mostly involved with Ásatrú while incorporating particular elements of other paths to make the best fit for you, which continually evolves over time. Nothing wrong with that. Or you might end up, ultimately, on a totally different path. Best of luck in your continued exploration!

Stormwise

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Re: Do I belong in Asatru?
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2015, 03:13:58 pm »
Quote from: Waldron;177720
I feel attracted to Asatru more than any other pagan religion, I am enthralled by the Norse Gods and I relate myself and agree with the nine noble virtues, but I’m someone who seeks for truth, the answers to the questions of life, who questions everything in that sense I’m closer to Hellenic paganism and Numinism. So before I become Asatruar I have a few questions.

Heathenry isn't a bad path to seek truth, or the answers to life. It's where I started, and have in large part remained. At the same time, while I hold a great deal of respect for the Nine Noble Virtues, these virtues are not owned by Heathenry, being virtues people of any faith can aspire to. I say this because feeling a resonance with the NNV does not lock one in to being a Heathen.

Quote from: Waldron;177720
Never read anything philosophical on Asatru, however in Numinism is said that all religions at the core are the same and that we should seek for our own truth and I agree, but there doesn’t seem to be that in Asatru. Why isn’t none of this mentioned in Asatru? What is the view on Asatru of these questions?

I think the Heathens of old were fairly philosophical about things; but not with the kind of structured approach one finds among the ancient Greeks or Romans. Heathen philosophy is less theory and more application, from my experience; and as such was not just the domain of a dedicated class within Heathen society, but rather something that was lived and shared by people of all social classes. As I am someone who enjoys theory just as much as application, I have added a philosophical branch to my overall approach to life and the gods, that being Stoicism. I have found that these two mesh quite well with one another, and do not conflict: in the worst case, I have a religious outlook, and a philosophical one; but what I aim for is the outlook of the ancient metaphysics, which tend to say both are aspects of the same thing.

As for why there is no mention of why all religions are one and the same within Asatru / Heathenry, I suspect a large part of this has to do with a pervading belief to the contrary. As to seeking our own truth, I think there are two perspectives found within Heathenry that serve as poles on a spectrum. One, that Heathenry is as much about the community as it is the gods (who are a part of the Heathen community). As such, the individual search for various truths is balanced against the consensus of the community. The second pole is less community-centered, and therefore less rigid in its balancing individual truths against community consensus. Those are generalizations, and I'm sure there are plenty of differing examples and experiences ... the most important of which will be the ones you wind up having.

Quote from: Waldron;177720
... but there are thoughts that I have that aren’t even mentioned when I read about Asatru, such as why we are here, who am I, the questions of life in general. It’s the only thing that keeps me from becoming an Asatruar. It’s hard to make a decision like this.

Keep this in mind: just because it isn't mentioned in the corpus of Heathen lore does not mean it didn't happen or wasn't thought of, it simply means it wasn't mentioned in any of what was left behind by our Heathen forebears. Odin, for example, is obsessed with the gathering of both knowledge and wisdom - it's difficult for me to fathom the possibility that he would not care about questions of existence, or begrudge someone else for caring about them. The Norse considered the possession of keen wit to be just as important as having a strong and healthy body ... how one would choose to develop that wit, or in which directions to apply it, would have remained a personal decision, I should think.

Quote from: Waldron;177720
Should I be Asatruar or Numinism or Hellenic Paganism that seem to be more appropriated for a person of reason like me?

From what I've read of your questions and perspectives here, I agree with those who have already responded that you should learn more before applying a label to yourself. I also agree that this is a decision that you will have to make. Modern Heathens are not known for wanting religion to be spoon-fed - the decision is yours, asking others to make it for you (or even to opine about it) robs you of your personal right. I would not, however, shy away from Heathenry on the grounds that you are "a person of reason" - like any other religion, there are plenty of reasoning (and reasonable) people to be found in Heathenry :-)  I hope this helps!

Tigendo

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Re: Do I belong in Asatru?
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2015, 04:07:46 pm »
Quote from: rinceoir;177724
I can't speak to Ásatrú, so I'll leave that to others who actually know about it. But I don't believe you should feel the need to shoehorn yourself into a particular belief system. If you are more attracted to Ásatrú, why not continue to explore the religion, philosophy, and practices associated with it? You could make some offerings, participate in ritual, and continue to learn and explore what it is and how you feel about it. If, eventually, you do not feel that is your path, you can always step off in another direction. Just because one part of your personality doesn't appear to conform to the basics of a path on the surface doesn't mean you can't walk that path or it isn't for you. I think reason and questioning is a valuable trait no matter what religion one follows.

So, in sum, I don't think you should let the fact that you don't feel 100% a perfect match to a particular path stop you from exploring it. I doubt very much there are many people who fit in 100% with all the tenets, practices, philosophies, etc. of their chosen religion.

 
I must agree, I have always drawn from almost all pantheons depending on my need at the time. I have devoted myself to Hecate for my own reasons, I have no patron God, and I follow several teachings of the Buddha. Your faith is what you make it. In these times, we have the benefit of having access to the beliefs of every region without going to a particular region. Why saddle yourself with just one belief system, Enjoy them all, experience each one for what it is. Above all, find your own universal truth.

journeyintoinsanity

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Re: Do I belong in Asatru?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2015, 11:06:20 am »
Quote from: Waldron;177720
I feel attracted to Asatru more than any other pagan religion, I am enthralled by the Norse Gods and I relate myself and agree with the nine noble virtues, but I’m someone who seeks for truth, the answers to the questions of life, who questions everything in that sense I’m closer to Hellenic paganism and Numinism. So before I become Asatruar I have a few questions.

Never read anything philosophical on Asatru, however in Numinism is said that all religions at the core are the same and that we should seek for our own truth and I agree, but there doesn’t seem to be that in Asatru. Why isn’t none of this mentioned in Asatru? What is the view on Asatru of these questions?

I agree with Asatruar’s philosophy of life, that we are part of nature, that respect must be earned, that we have the responsibility to care and improve our community, but there are thoughts that I have that aren’t even mentioned when I read about Asatru, such as why we are here, who am I, the questions of life in general. It’s the only thing that keeps me from becoming an Asatruar. It’s hard to make a decision like this.

Should I be Asatruar or Numinism or Hellenic Paganism that seem to be more appropriated for a person of reason like me?

Thank you.
Hi! I don't really consider myself Heathen. If I had to describe it, I'd say Norse pagan with a few Friends from other pantheons. I have my own take on things, and I can't really limit it to just one particular school of thought. Perhaps cast your net wide and see what happens. You can always narrow it down further if you feel like it. :)

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