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Author Topic: Family: Pansexual vs. Pangender vs Queer, etc  (Read 4704 times)

PrincessKLS

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Pansexual vs. Pangender vs Queer, etc
« on: July 07, 2015, 10:09:18 pm »
Okay so I've only known maybe two people in my life who identified themselves as Queer. One of them was a biologically sexed female who went from identifying as a lesbian to identifying as a queer woman. She tried to explain it to me but either she had trouble or I couldn't pick up the understanding of it. Another person who told they were queer on both gender and sexuality was another biologically sexed female. So I know the definition and concept of Pansexuality, Polysexuality, Pan and bi-genderism, also gender fluidity but still I'm puzzled by the term queer.  To how both my friends explained to me. The best definitioin or concept of queer I can come with is: A person who identifies as all genders and/or all sexualities but also it seems like a glorified version of a pansexual and/or pan-gender person. Could someone help me understand this concept?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 01:19:47 pm by RandallS »
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Re: Pansexual vs. Pangender vs Queer, etc
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2015, 12:38:22 am »
Quote from: PrincessKLS;176887
Could someone help me understand this concept?

 
Here's the wikipedia article on the word.

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Re: Pansexual vs. Pangender vs Queer, etc
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2015, 09:09:53 am »
Quote from: PrincessKLS;176887
I'm puzzled by the term queer.


I thought that was the point. I mean, it could help cisgendered or otherwise not-queer people to come to terms with the fact that people aren't puzzles to solve and put back in the toy box.

It's great to have boxes at all, mind you. The cis and hetero box is a monumentally acknowledged power, so making that no longer invisible in society (the ubiquitous privileged power sort of invisibility, different from the invisibility of the very marginalized) is a helpful thing. Some boxes can be cozy,  like, "At last I have found my people!"

Queer could be any of those, not necessarily all of those. To my understanding, "queer" could be heterosexual homoromantic and agender, as long as they want to call themselves queer.

Quote
The best definitioin or concept of queer I can come with is: A person who identifies as all genders and/or all sexualities but also it seems like a glorified version of a pansexual and/or pan-gender person.


The main thing about these words is that the usage of a word defines the meaning more than the meaning of the word defines the usage. If I like the word queer because it also means "amusingly peculiar"* but somebody else wants to be called pansexual because their bullies called them "queer" in high school and they found biphobic bullies in the LGBT communities when they called themselves bi...then "pan" has far more glory than "queer" to that individual. "Queer" has more of that glory than "pan" to me. This hypothetical person and I are both right...as long as we don't start calling each other names.

* And because I've fancied some individual women, but don't approach women with some instinctive "the female of the species is to be potentially fancied", and I've fancied a few men. But I don't want to do some number-crunching demographic study on who tickles my fancies. That's terribly unromantic, and the way I put that is already a potential problem when it comes to society's association/dissociation of sexuality and romance and how harshly to judge individuals for their attitudes toward either. Then there's the bi versus pan versus demi debate in some spaces where the arguments are passionate but that's not me, I tried. And then there's the socially presents-as gender versus societal conditioning gender versus body/brain gender that means either I'm not really a woman all the time or I'm just too immature to understand that there are as many ways to authentically be a woman as there are women on the planet. I'd still take in as much information about this as I can, so it's not a throw-in-the-towel term, but: queer suits me.

Quote
One of them was a biologically sexed female who went from identifying as a lesbian to identifying as a queer woman.

Another person who told they were queer on both gender and sexuality was another biologically sexed female.


I'd say they're both right.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 09:17:40 am by Faemon »
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Re: Pansexual vs. Pangender vs Queer, etc
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2015, 12:45:09 pm »
Quote from: PrincessKLS;176887
Okay so I've only known maybe two people in my life who identified themselves as Queer. One of them was a biologically sexed female who went from identifying as a lesbian to identifying as a queer woman. She tried to explain it to me but either she had trouble or I couldn't pick up the understanding of it. Another person who told they were queer on both gender and sexuality was another biologically sexed female. So I know the definition and concept of Pansexuality, Polysexuality, Pan and bi-genderism, also gender fluidity but still I'm puzzled by the term queer.  To how both my friends explained to me. The best definitioin or concept of queer I can come with is: A person who identifies as all genders and/or all sexualities but also it seems like a glorified version of a pansexual and/or pan-gender person. Could someone help me understand this concept?

Queer and pansexual are not *necessarily related, for starters.. Nor are pansexual and pangender (necessarily)?

I'm a pansexual. This describes who I'm attracted to and who I have relationships with, in the same way that heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual do. It does not in any way describe my own sex, gender identity, or gender presentation (I'm a cis-gendered woman, FWIW).

ETA: I guess I've just complicated things, after reading other responses, LOL. I was thinking of "gender queer," rather than the broader umbrella meaning. Added some "necessarily"s in there to hopefully clarify.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 12:49:52 pm by Queen of Swords »

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Re: Pansexual vs. Pangender vs Queer, etc
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2015, 08:08:54 pm »
Quote from: Faemon;176892

Queer could be any of those, not necessarily all of those. To my understanding, "queer" could be heterosexual homoromantic and agender, as long as they want to call themselves queer.


I have good friends who argue that I'm queer because even though I'm cis and het (pretty much the definition of Kinsey 0), I'm also polyamorous by basic orientation. (Though I've been un-romantic-relationshipped for a decade, so the distinction between identity and practice, it is a thing.) I occasionally argue the logic with them, but I've also come to think they might have a point.

Part of the discussions we've had about it is that people identifying as queer, along different spectra of identity, can help broaden the understanding of what relationship models and identities look like for many many more people. And also help people find other people who are working under different sets of assumptions about the world than the mainstream ones, and sometimes that's handy.

But rather like 'Pagan' as a term, it's one of those things where you need to know how the person you're actually talking to is defining it to have a useful conversation beyond the bare basics.
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Re: Pansexual vs. Pangender vs Queer, etc
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2015, 09:46:23 pm »
Quote from: PrincessKLS;176887
The best definitioin or concept of queer I can come with is: A person who identifies as all genders and/or all sexualities but also it seems like a glorified version of a pansexual and/or pan-gender person. Could someone help me understand this concept?

I've always seen "queer" as shorthand for "different," be it in sexuality or gender orientation. In other words, it's an umbrella term. The definition really depends on who's using it and how. It's a good term for people that are questioning or don't feel comfortable using niche terms as well.

For example, I identify as genderqueer, but I'm closer to the agender side of the spectrum. That doesn't mean that a pangender or other type of non-binary person can't use the term despite the radical difference in personal identification.

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Re: Pansexual vs. Pangender vs Queer, etc
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2015, 11:00:46 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;176907
I have good friends who argue that I'm queer because even though I'm cis and het (pretty much the definition of Kinsey 0), I'm also polyamorous by basic orientation. (Though I've been un-romantic-relationshipped for a decade, so the distinction between identity and practice, it is a thing.) I occasionally argue the logic with them, but I've also come to think they might have a point.

Part of the discussions we've had about it is that people identifying as queer, along different spectra of identity, can help broaden the understanding of what relationship models and identities look like for many many more people. And also help people find other people who are working under different sets of assumptions about the world than the mainstream ones, and sometimes that's handy.

But rather like 'Pagan' as a term, it's one of those things where you need to know how the person you're actually talking to is defining it to have a useful conversation beyond the bare basics.

Pretty much this.

Although, PrincessKLS, if you're still looking for clarifiers: The Genderbread Person. As Jenett pointed out, there can be a difference between identity and practice, for another example the difference between asexual and celibate. That's not included in this Genderbread Person model. "Queer" is more like a genderbread house with candy canes holding up the balcony and graham biscuit shingles. On the model linked, it says "5 (of infinite)" and I'd say queer refers to any of those infinites (again, not necessarily all.)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 11:06:46 pm by Faemon »
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Re: Pansexual vs. Pangender vs Queer, etc
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2015, 12:43:04 pm »
Quote from: PrincessKLS;176887
...So I know the definition and concept of Pansexuality, Polysexuality, Pan and bi-genderism, also gender fluidity but still I'm puzzled by the term queer.  To how both my friends explained to me. The best definitioin or concept of queer I can come with is: A person who identifies as all genders and/or all sexualities but also it seems like a glorified version of a pansexual and/or pan-gender person. Could someone help me understand this concept?

 
In addition to the fantastic information everyone else have given you, I'll note that some people also use queer as a verb, as in this post by Charlie Glickman.
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Re: Pansexual vs. Pangender vs Queer, etc
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2015, 12:53:59 am »
Quote from: veggiewolf;176929
In addition to the fantastic information everyone else have given you, I'll note that some people also use queer as a verb, as in this post by Charlie Glickman.

 
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