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Author Topic: Wicca in Practice Today vs. Gardner?  (Read 1168 times)

seamstress

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Wicca in Practice Today vs. Gardner?
« on: June 12, 2015, 01:02:01 am »
I have a question. I'm a bit confused by my understanding of Wicca versus what I've observed wiccans doing.

I read through the entire book I linked above about 3.5-4 years ago while I was still seeing if it would be a fit for me (I just don't really have a religion, but I have a pretty intense hobby of reading absolutely everything about anything in the world I can get my hands on... I've got a book on dinosaurs and several nature field guides right next to my bed right now!) I noticed that there's some discrepancy on practice versus what the book says.

The book says that you should never admit to being wiccan even if it kills you. You should destroy your book of shadows if you ever get caught and you should hide your tools and make nothing permanent.

In my observation, just as far the opposite as possible happens. My roommate, who I previously mentioned, never takes off her huge pentacle, and many of the people I've met through her started telling me about their personal beliefs before I had even learned their name.

Is this due to how a religion evolves over time? Am I missing some big, important detail here? Is it because of our age group? (college students) My roommate and I have many interesting discussions about our beliefs and experiences, but she's a bit sensitive to...words? I want to gain better understanding of how these two contrary things match up so that I can be respectful of her and just plain gain more understanding in general.

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Re: Wicca in Practice Today vs. Gardner...?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2015, 07:01:13 am »
Quote from: seamstress;176000
I have a question. I'm a bit confused by my understanding of Wicca versus what I've observed wiccans doing.


This is not an uncommon problem! One of the things that really confuses a lot of people is that people use the term Wicca to describe a wide range of things - things with rather different origins and sets of practices.

You might find the following article on my website about the differences in the way the term Wicca gets used helpful: http://gleewood.org/seeking/basics/range-of-uses/

Beyond that, you should also be aware that the material in the Internet Book of Shadows (or, really, anything else like that) is of dubious origin in the sense of determining what Gardner did: the Gardnerian Book of Shadows is considered oathbound, which means sharing it on the web would be a problem.

And basically, that means you can't tell from the outside whether a given piece from an oathbound practice is what.

To lay out the options, such a thing could be, possibly:

- What people actually do, in a fairly complete form (but someone broke significant religious agreements to post it)

- A fragmentary part of what they do (I often describe a book of shadows as being like the script to a play: it gives you reminders about things you might forget, but it is not everything that goes into the play or making it a living thing: for that you need people and movement, and a lot of things like costume and set and pacing and staging and what the acting is like to see what it is.)

- Something someone wrote up because it looked good. (And maybe other people now use it, and maybe they don't. This is part of where this gets really tricky.)

- Something that got written up, and has been combined wiht lots of other stuff that got written up, but the whole thing was never any one person's cohesive practice (this is true for the Internet book of shadows: there's bits that really just don't fit together.)

And so on.

Quote

The book says that you should never admit to being wiccan even if it kills you. You should destroy your book of shadows if you ever get caught and you should hide your tools and make nothing permanent.


There are still people around who follow Gardner's direct line of practice (and Alex Sanders, and so on.)

In general, these people are private about sharing their religious beliefs, but it's not "never ever admit". They may certainly tell famly or friends, they may be public about being Pagan in the larger community. (What they will probably *not* do is tell people much about where their coven meets, or who else is in it.)

Many of these people do have permanent tools, but they're stored in a way where they're not obvious unless they're in use. (So, for example, they may have a household shrine to a deity, but they don't have a full set of working witchy tools laid out all the time: those only are out when they are about to do ritual.

Quote

In my observation, just as far the opposite as possible happens. My roommate, who I previously mentioned, never takes off her huge pentacle, and many of the people I've met through her started telling me about their personal beliefs before I had even learned their name.


This is another variant of practice, and it's one that's much more common among people whose practice of religious witchcraft does not come from learning an oathbound tradition from specific other people over an extended period of time, but rather learn from books, online, less formal interactions with others.

You can make a totally excellent practice out of that, but it's different from a practice that is shared with a specific group of other people.  

(To put myself in context: I'm an initiate and priestess in an oathbound tradition that involved learning it in-person over a period of years. I generally don't identify myself as a witch at work, but do in my private life, but I also don't talk much about the tradition-specific parts of my practices except with close friends or people I'm actually doing ritual with.

At the same time, if someone wants to learn my tradition, I have an obligation to teach them the whole thing - even the parts I don't routinely use on my own - in a way taht someone who came up with their own set of practices probably wouldn't, and I can't make changes in some core practices without talking to other people in the tradition and/or expecting they wouldn't recognise the end result as something different from what they were doing.)

Quote

My roommate and I have many interesting discussions about our beliefs and experiences, but she's a bit sensitive to...words? I want to gain better understanding of how these two contrary things match up so that I can be respectful of her and just plain gain more understanding in general.

 
If you could give some more examples, people might have some more ideas for this part, but in general it's often frustrating to try and defend yourself against something someone read online - especially if it's a thing from lots of different sources like the Internet Book of Shadows.

And that's especially true with people who are relatively new (by which I mean 3-4 years or so of practice) of talking about what they do religiously. It's a thing that taes some experience to feel comfortable with.
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seamstress

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Re: Wicca in Practice Today vs. Gardner...?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2015, 12:35:44 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;176004
This is not an uncommon problem! One of the things that really confuses a lot of people is that people use the term Wicca to describe a wide range of things - things with rather different origins and sets of practices.

You might find the following article on my website about the differences in the way the term Wicca gets used helpful: http://gleewood.org/seeking/basics/range-of-uses/

Beyond that, you should also be aware that the material in the Internet Book of Shadows (or, really, anything else like that) is of dubious origin in the sense of determining what Gardner did: the Gardnerian Book of Shadows is considered oathbound, which means sharing it on the web would be a problem.

And basically, that means you can't tell from the outside whether a given piece from an oathbound practice is what.

To lay out the options, such a thing could be, possibly:

- What people actually do, in a fairly complete form (but someone broke significant religious agreements to post it)

- A fragmentary part of what they do (I often describe a book of shadows as being like the script to a play: it gives you reminders about things you might forget, but it is not everything that goes into the play or making it a living thing: for that you need people and movement, and a lot of things like costume and set and pacing and staging and what the acting is like to see what it is.)

- Something someone wrote up because it looked good. (And maybe other people now use it, and maybe they don't. This is part of where this gets really tricky.)

- Something that got written up, and has been combined wiht lots of other stuff that got written up, but the whole thing was never any one person's cohesive practice (this is true for the Internet book of shadows: there's bits that really just don't fit together.)

And so on.



There are still people around who follow Gardner's direct line of practice (and Alex Sanders, and so on.)

In general, these people are private about sharing their religious beliefs, but it's not "never ever admit". They may certainly tell famly or friends, they may be public about being Pagan in the larger community. (What they will probably *not* do is tell people much about where their coven meets, or who else is in it.)

Many of these people do have permanent tools, but they're stored in a way where they're not obvious unless they're in use. (So, for example, they may have a household shrine to a deity, but they don't have a full set of working witchy tools laid out all the time: those only are out when they are about to do ritual.

 

This is another variant of practice, and it's one that's much more common among people whose practice of religious witchcraft does not come from learning an oathbound tradition from specific other people over an extended period of time, but rather learn from books, online, less formal interactions with others.


She says that she has a solitary practice, so that fits.

Quote
You can make a totally excellent practice out of that, but it's different from a practice that is shared with a specific group of other people.  

(To put myself in context: I'm an initiate and priestess in an oathbound tradition that involved learning it in-person over a period of years. I generally don't identify myself as a witch at work, but do in my private life, but I also don't talk much about the tradition-specific parts of my practices except with close friends or people I'm actually doing ritual with.

At the same time, if someone wants to learn my tradition, I have an obligation to teach them the whole thing - even the parts I don't routinely use on my own - in a way taht someone who came up with their own set of practices probably wouldn't, and I can't make changes in some core practices without talking to other people in the tradition and/or expecting they wouldn't recognise the end result as something different from what they were doing.)

If you could give some more examples, people might have some more ideas for this part, but in general it's often frustrating to try and defend yourself against something someone read online - especially if it's a thing from lots of different sources like the Internet Book of Shadows.

And that's especially true with people who are relatively new (by which I mean 3-4 years or so of practice) of talking about what they do religiously. It's a thing that taes some experience to feel comfortable with.

 
That's why I came here instead. What I meant by sensitive is that we just had an argument because she was taking out her anger at other things on me and I wanted her to stop. I thought that maybe coming here would create a bit less drama and conflict.

I really appreciate your thoughtful answer. :)

Micheál

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Re: Wicca in Practice Today vs. Gardner...?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2015, 02:21:02 pm »
Quote from: seamstress;176000
I have a question. I'm a bit confused by my understanding of Wicca versus what I've observed wiccans doing.

The book says that you should never admit to being wiccan even if it kills you. You should destroy your book of shadows if you ever get caught and you should hide your tools and make nothing permanent.

In my observation, just as far the opposite as possible happens. My roommate, who I previously mentioned, never takes off her huge pentacle, and many of the people I've met through her started telling me about their personal beliefs before I had even learned their name.
.

The internet BOS is a random compilation of neo-pagan texts, some from good authors,  others not so much, and some which may be relevant,  or have nothing to do with Wicca. Often you see leaked "Gardnerian" or "Alexandrian" BOS advertised on the net, which are complete bogus. First off there isn't one "official" in existence since they vary by lineage and tradition. They're oathbound anyway so there isn't anything to attest, and I for one can vouch that most of what I see is pure outercourt material that can be found in many public texts.  In the early days not so much was clear which is why many freaked out when the Farrars published they're "What Witches' Do" for example.

Since Gardner's time a lot more is known about Wicca. The Murray hypothesis isn't taken as fact, and the sourses which influenced him directly, or incorporated but not cited are well known now since historians and academics have ventured into that ground.  That whole, "keep a book in your hand of write..and destroy it when ever danger threatens," or which ever version is just taken as psuedohistory. Now the identities of coven members are oathbound. Some, because of personal reasons, and job professionalism choose to keep their religious beliefs private, therefore publicly 'outing' them would be oathbreaking.  Others choose to be open, and are open, therefore if I make known my religion, or name my HPS who is publicly out and open, that's fine, and a lot more accepted today than Gardner's time. Hell even then just look at how Alex Sanders was!.....so in regards to your roomate, it seems you mentioned that she mentioned being solitary,  but just in a supposed traditional situation it would be her personal choice as to whether or not one shares.
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Re: Wicca in Practice Today vs. Gardner...?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2015, 12:33:01 pm »
Quote from: seamstress;176000
The book says that you should never admit to being wiccan even if it kills you. You should destroy your book of shadows if you ever get caught and you should hide your tools and make nothing permanent.

In my observation, just as far the opposite as possible happens. My roommate, who I previously mentioned, never takes off her huge pentacle, and many of the people I've met through her started telling me about their personal beliefs before I had even learned their name.

To my knowledge, a lot of that has to do with the ostracization and harm that would often befall a wiccan who was open about it.
To my knowledge, in certain covens you aren't supposed to share anything done in circle so they feel it's best not to talk about it at all. I think this is where that comes from

Edit: There are much fewer dangers to being an outed wiccan or pagan now a-days. I think this is why people don't keep it to themselves as much. We also live in an age of over sharing; might have something to do with it. People want comments on every aspect of their life, in and out.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 12:35:19 pm by ~Fawn~ »

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