Author Topic: Is Asatru difficult to follow? (Read 2929 times)

faebel · « **on:** May 29, 2015, 09:59:04 am »

//Warning: I'm very new to all this, and this whole question is based around UPG rather than fact or lore.//

About a week ago, I was thinking seriously about Wicca and following the Wiccan path. I meditated deeply in order to connect with the God/Goddess, and instead found myself being contacted by Thor! That certainly came as a bit of a shock, not going to lie. I had never even thought about the Norse pantheon, let alone considered Germanic Paganism as something I'd be interested in.

I'm now seriously considering Asatru, and I've talked to Thor a couple of times since last week. However, I've gotten the distinct impression that He wanted me to be very dedicated if I was going to follow the Norse path. I've also been in brief contact with Baldur. Tonight, I spoke with Baldur and asked Him if we could develop a relationship. He warned me that this path was 'going to take a lot of work', and that I probably wasn't 'ready' for it.

I've had a look at few different sites explaining the Asatru practice, as well as TC's Asatru/Heathenism SIG, but I haven't found anything that suggests a 'high level of difficulty' so to speak. (No disrespect intended - this is just what I've gathered from the few threads I've read).

My question is this: Is Asatru (or Germanic Paganism*) inherently difficult to practice or follow? Do the Gods put you through grueling tasks or ask that you dedicate a lot of time to Them? I'm just a little confused as to why I'm being so heavily cautioned. Perhaps it's an issue rooted in my personal life, but I think hearing someone else's perspective could help me understand what's going on.

Any help is appreciated. Sorry if this is a little confusing or a bit too personal/subjective.

*I'm still not entirely sure what the difference between the two terms is. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Darkhawk · « **Reply #1 on:** May 29, 2015, 01:34:08 pm »

Quote from: faebel;175524

*I'm still not entirely sure what the difference between the two terms is. Anyone care to enlighten me?

This bit I can answer, at least.

"Asatru" is a term for the form of heathenry that's rooted in Icelandic practice, with, I believe, a very close relationship with Norse practice, given the historical ties between those two regions.

"Germanic paganism" would be a generic term for stuff rooted in practice in Germany and environs.

SunflowerP · « **Reply #2 on:** May 29, 2015, 02:21:03 pm »

Quote from: Darkhawk;175534

"Germanic paganism" would be a generic term for stuff rooted in practice in Germany and environs.

No, 'Germanic paganism' - leaving aside that, for the most part, 'heathen' rather than 'pagan' is the preferred term - would be a generic term for stuff rooted in the practices of any of the Germanic peoples. So, it's the umbrella term that encompasses Asatru, the heathenry of the other Scandinavian countries (which generally have their own names, e.g., Forn Sedr), Theodism and other Anglo-Saxon-based heathenry, and continental Germanic of various sorts.

Just a guess, here, but Asatru (as practiced in North America; Asatru in Iceland is more neoPagan in flavor, probably because Icelanders don't feel any need to prove that they're Icelandic Enough), as one of the earliest manifestations of reconstructionist methodology, was where the expression 'the religion with homework' was coined; that could be the 'difficult' you're being cautioned about, Faebel. (ETA: I'm not sure about Heathen religions in Australia, but AFAIK they mostly take their cues from N.A.)

Sunflower

Darkhawk · « **Reply #3 on:** May 29, 2015, 02:25:35 pm »

Quote from: SunflowerP;175535

No, 'Germanic paganism' - leaving aside that, for the most part, 'heathen' rather than 'pagan' is the preferred term - would be a generic term for stuff rooted in the practices of any of the Germanic peoples. So, it's the umbrella term that encompasses Asatru, the heathenry of the other Scandinavian countries (which generally have their own names, e.g., Forn Sedr), Theodism and other Anglo-Saxon-based heathenry, and continental Germanic of various sorts.

I've actually come across people who got Very Vigorous about distinguishing between their Scandanavian-based stuff and Germanic stuff, is why I said it that way.

ETA: or it may have been the other way around.

SunflowerP · « **Reply #4 on:** May 29, 2015, 02:30:25 pm »

Quote from: Darkhawk;175536

I've actually come across people who got Very Vigorous about distinguishing between their Scandanavian-based stuff and Germanic stuff, is why I said it that way.

ETA: or it may have been the other way around.

That might well be part of why 'heathen' is preferred (as well as the obvious dissociation from neoPagans in general).

Sunflower

Mountain Cat · « **Reply #5 on:** May 29, 2015, 03:20:13 pm »

Quote from: faebel;175524

//Warning: I'm very new to all this, and this whole question is based around UPG rather than fact or lore.//

About a week ago, I was thinking seriously about Wicca and following the Wiccan path. I meditated deeply in order to connect with the God/Goddess, and instead found myself being contacted by Thor! That certainly came as a bit of a shock, not going to lie. I had never even thought about the Norse pantheon, let alone considered Germanic Paganism as something I'd be interested in.

I'm now seriously considering Asatru, and I've talked to Thor a couple of times since last week. However, I've gotten the distinct impression that He wanted me to be very dedicated if I was going to follow the Norse path. I've also been in brief contact with Baldur. Tonight, I spoke with Baldur and asked Him if we could develop a relationship. He warned me that this path was 'going to take a lot of work', and that I probably wasn't 'ready' for it.

I've had a look at few different sites explaining the Asatru practice, as well as TC's Asatru/Heathenism SIG, but I haven't found anything that suggests a 'high level of difficulty' so to speak. (No disrespect intended - this is just what I've gathered from the few threads I've read).

My question is this: Is Asatru (or Germanic Paganism*) inherently difficult to practice or follow? Do the Gods put you through grueling tasks or ask that you dedicate a lot of time to Them? I'm just a little confused as to why I'm being so heavily cautioned. Perhaps it's an issue rooted in my personal life, but I think hearing someone else's perspective could help me understand what's going on.

Any help is appreciated. Sorry if this is a little confusing or a bit too personal/subjective.

*I'm still not entirely sure what the difference between the two terms is. Anyone care to enlighten me? :)

I'm finding it difficult. Not physically or intellectually, but I'm finding it difficult to gather up the knowledge I need to do things properly*. There is a lot of reading. The Eddas and Sagas are pretty long. If you are called to a reconstructionist path then there's a lot of cultural and historical context to take into consideration.

I keep wishing there was a good 101 book, but I haven't found any that are helpful to me. Most of the ones I come across are full of UPG, which I don't feel is always helpful to a beginner (meaning me, this may be way different for others), or they are specific to a particular group or organization, which I won't be following. My practice will be solitary, though it would be nice to have others around my level of experience to discuss things with.

As for the gods putting you through gruelling tasks... I don't know yet. I would imagine that would be very individual. It would depend on the god and the person and what the god wanted to accomplish in the world, I would think. Maybe. :)

I don't know Baldr, but I've heard Thor is rather a great deity to be called to. The ones that called me really scare me, but that's just me. I've been led in a certain direction, down a certain path in a very specific way that I wasn't expecting at all and that still isn't clear to me. That's certainly made some difficulties and caused some ordeals. But once again, that's just me. :)

Hope this helps some!

*Properly and specifically being important to the one who called me. There is a huge insistence on knowledge and understanding of the historical and cultural context as well as the practice of doing things right.

Aiwelin · « **Reply #6 on:** May 29, 2015, 03:41:12 pm »

Quote from: faebel;175524

//Warning: I'm very new to all this, and this whole question is based around UPG rather than fact or lore.//

About a week ago, I was thinking seriously about Wicca and following the Wiccan path. I meditated deeply in order to connect with the God/Goddess, and instead found myself being contacted by Thor! That certainly came as a bit of a shock, not going to lie. I had never even thought about the Norse pantheon, let alone considered Germanic Paganism as something I'd be interested in.

I'm now seriously considering Asatru, and I've talked to Thor a couple of times since last week. However, I've gotten the distinct impression that He wanted me to be very dedicated if I was going to follow the Norse path. I've also been in brief contact with Baldur. Tonight, I spoke with Baldur and asked Him if we could develop a relationship. He warned me that this path was 'going to take a lot of work', and that I probably wasn't 'ready' for it.

I've had a look at few different sites explaining the Asatru practice, as well as TC's Asatru/Heathenism SIG, but I haven't found anything that suggests a 'high level of difficulty' so to speak. (No disrespect intended - this is just what I've gathered from the few threads I've read).

My question is this: Is Asatru (or Germanic Paganism*) inherently difficult to practice or follow? Do the Gods put you through grueling tasks or ask that you dedicate a lot of time to Them? I'm just a little confused as to why I'm being so heavily cautioned. Perhaps it's an issue rooted in my personal life, but I think hearing someone else's perspective could help me understand what's going on.

Any help is appreciated. Sorry if this is a little confusing or a bit too personal/subjective.

*I'm still not entirely sure what the difference between the two terms is. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Hello Faebel! While others did a good job addressing vocabulary, I'd like to put a few things out there fir you to consider.

I don't think Heathenry is an inherently difficult religion, at least not any more so than other minority religions that require some research to learn about. In my experience, the Heathen community has more than its fair share of religious you're-not-doing-it-right policing, so that may be what They're referring to.

What seems more likely to me is that these Gods may have something specific in mind for you. I have been given some tricky tasks by Nerthus, my Goddess, but Thunor and I have a very laid-back relationship. Itall depends on what your Gods want from you- and you always have the right to say no to Them, too!

You might want to look into Norse Wicca or another more loosely structured way if honoring the Northern deities before you jump headfirst into Asatru- maybe this sudden transition is why the Gods think it will be difficult fir you. It's worth looking into multiple options.

Kaio · « **Reply #7 on:** May 29, 2015, 04:00:03 pm »

Quote from: Mountain Cat;175546

(...)

I keep wishing there was a good 101 book, but I haven't found any that are helpful to me. Most of the ones I come across are full of UPG, which I don't feel is always helpful to a beginner (meaning me, this may be way different for others), or they are specific to a particular group or organization, which I won't be following.

Did you read Diana L. Paxson's Essential Ásatrú? I think she gives a good overview of some Germanic Reconstructionist religions (but yes, Ásatrú seems to be her focus) and I don't remember whether there are stances of UPG in the book.

Mountain Cat · « **Reply #8 on:** May 29, 2015, 05:52:40 pm »

Quote from: Kaio;175549

Did you read Diana L. Paxson's Essential Ásatrú? I think she gives a good overview of some Germanic Reconstructionist religions (but yes, Ásatrú seems to be her focus) and I don't remember whether there are stances of UPG in the book.

It's on my list of books to look at. I have heard that there is a lot of UPG in it, but I can't recall where I heard this. I've been so many places lately.

Thanks!

faebel · « **Reply #9 on:** May 29, 2015, 06:16:44 pm »

Quote from: SunflowerP;175535

Just a guess, here, but Asatru (as practiced in North America; Asatru in Iceland is more neoPagan in flavor, probably because Icelanders don't feel any need to prove that they're Icelandic Enough), as one of the earliest manifestations of reconstructionist methodology, was where the expression 'the religion with homework' was coined; that could be the 'difficult' you're being cautioned about, Faebel. (ETA: I'm not sure about Heathen religions in Australia, but AFAIK they mostly take their cues from N.A.)

Sunflower

Ah ok. That makes a little more sense. I was wary of using the word Heathen, as I was worried it was a bit broad. But, if I'm reading your response correctly, it's an umbrella term for all Norse-centered religion?

Being cautioned against homework sounds pretty reasonable, actually. Considering I'm in my second final year of high school (I've got exams this week actually. Sigh.)

Quote from: Mountain Cat;175546

I'm finding it difficult. Not physically or intellectually, but I'm finding it difficult to gather up the knowledge I need to do things properly*. There is a lot of reading. The Eddas and Sagas are pretty long. If you are called to a reconstructionist path then there's a lot of cultural and historical context to take into consideration.

...

As for the gods putting you through gruelling tasks... I don't know yet. I would imagine that would be very individual. It would depend on the god and the person and what the god wanted to accomplish in the world, I would think. Maybe.

I don't know Baldr, but I've heard Thor is rather a great deity to be called to. The ones that called me really scare me, but that's just me. I've been led in a certain direction, down a certain path in a very specific way that I wasn't expecting at all and that still isn't clear to me. That's certainly made some difficulties and caused some ordeals. But once again, that's just me.

Hope this helps some!

*Properly and specifically being important to the one who called me. There is a huge insistence on knowledge and understanding of the historical and cultural context as well as the practice of doing things right.

This does help, thank you. I tend to forget that the Gods have their own agendas and probably have a 'use' for me. I'm a little intimidated by Thor, but yes, He's generally been very helpful and fatherly. Once again, the homework thing may be an issue. Perhaps this grand cautioning is really just the Gods' way of saying 'until you get your shit together we're not having this conversation'

Quote from: Aiwelin;175548

Hello Faebel! While others did a good job addressing vocabulary, I'd like to put a few things out there fir you to consider.

I don't think Heathenry is an inherently difficult religion, at least not any more so than other minority religions that require some research to learn about. In my experience, the Heathen community has more than its fair share of religious you're-not-doing-it-right policing, so that may be what They're referring to.

What seems more likely to me is that these Gods may have something specific in mind for you. I have been given some tricky tasks by Nerthus, my Goddess, but Thunor and I have a very laid-back relationship. Itall depends on what your Gods want from you- and you always have the right to say no to Them, too!

You might want to look into Norse Wicca or another more loosely structured way if honoring the Northern deities before you jump headfirst into Asatru- maybe this sudden transition is why the Gods think it will be difficult fir you. It's worth looking into multiple options.

Perhaps I should ask Them what they have in mind? That might clear things up a bit. Norse Wicca sounds interesting, good suggestion. I think you may be right with the transition thing. I may need to think about Heathenry* for a while before doing anything drastic. I'll take another look at the related paths to see if anything can fit my busy schedule.

Thank you all for your answers, they've been very helpful. I'll consider them carefully

*correct term? Yes? No?

Juniperberry · « **Reply #10 on:** May 30, 2015, 05:27:50 am »

Quote from: Mountain Cat;175546

I'm finding it difficult. Not physically or intellectually, but I'm finding it difficult to gather up the knowledge I need to do things properly*. There is a lot of reading. The Eddas and Sagas are pretty long. If you are called to a reconstructionist path then there's a lot of cultural and historical context to take into consideration.

I keep wishing there was a good 101 book, but I haven't found any that are helpful to me.

D'oh!

Have you read The Havamal? It's basically the original 101 book written from Odin's perspective. I should have thought to mention it sooner, sorry.

For example, advice on offerings, gifts, (and worship):

Not great things alone must one give to another,
praise oft is earned for nought;
with half a loaf and a tilted bowl
I have found me many a friend. (Olive Bray Translation[1])

A kind word need not cost much,
The price of praise can be cheap:
With half a loaf and an empty cup
I found myself a friend, (W. H .Auden & P. B. Taylor Translation [2] )

Better ask for too little than offer too much,
like the gift should be the boon;
better not to send than to overspend.(1)

Better not to ask than to over-pledge
As a gift that demands a gift
Better not to send than to slay too many, (2)

To his friend a man should bear him as friend,
and gift for gift bestow,
laughter for laughter let him exchange,
but leasing pay for a lie. (1)

A man should be loyal through life to friends,
And return gift for gift,
Laugh when they laugh,
but with lies repay
A false foe who lies.(2)

Most dear is fire to the sons of men,
most sweet the sight of the sun;
good is health if one can but keep it,
and to live a life without shame.(2)

These things are thought the best:
Fire, the sight of the sun,
Good health with the gift to keep it,
And a life that avoids vice.(2)

Mountain Cat · « **Reply #11 on:** May 30, 2015, 05:48:29 pm »

Quote from: Juniperberry;175561

D'oh!

Have you read The Havamal? It's basically the original 101 book written from Odin's perspective. I should have thought to mention it sooner, sorry.

For example, advice on offerings, gifts, (and worship):

I have read the Havamal! Lol. It's been so long that I'd forgotten, though. Thanks so much. I will re-read soon!

I suppose that's why everyone says, Read The Lore. :)

SunflowerP · « **Reply #12 on:** May 30, 2015, 07:09:24 pm »

Quote from: faebel;175552

Ah ok. That makes a little more sense. I was wary of using the word Heathen, as I was worried it was a bit broad. But, if I'm reading your response correctly, it's an umbrella term for all Norse-centered religion?

I may need to think about Heathenry* for a while before doing anything drastic.

*correct term? Yes? No?

Norse, and other Germanic cultures, yep. I'll note that there's some dispute about the boundary line, but it's not dispute about what cultures 'count'; it's about reconstructionist methodology vs other approaches (UPG, etc). Some Heathens are very hardline that Heathenry is strictly recon; others are fine with a broader meaning. You'd probably get a lot of flak if you practiced Norse Wicca and identified as Heathen, and I'd have to agree with the flak-givers that that's a bit much, since that's really not culturally Norse/Germanic. (Or, alternately, it really doesn't have enough to do with any definition of 'Wicca' that's not completely meaningless - but that's a whole 'nother kettle of worms.)

Sunflower

Juniperberry · « **Reply #13 on:** May 30, 2015, 07:36:33 pm »

Quote from: SunflowerP;175590

Some Heathens are very hardline that Heathenry is strictly recon; others are fine with a broader meaning.

This is me, to a point. If someone says that they're heathen, I automatically assume that they employ reconstructionism to some extent. I'll get irritated if I find out differently, not so much because they don't have the right to call themselves heathen, but because it's annoying to switch gears in the middle of the conversation. Which I suppose is a personal problem.

Juniperberry · « **Reply #14 on:** May 30, 2015, 11:07:00 pm »

Quote from: faebel;175524

My question is this: Is Asatru (or Germanic Paganism*) inherently difficult to practice or follow? Do the Gods put you through grueling tasks or ask that you dedicate a lot of time to Them? I'm just a little confused as to why I'm being so heavily cautioned. Perhaps it's an issue rooted in my personal life, but I think hearing someone else's perspective could help me understand what's going on.

Any help is appreciated. Sorry if this is a little confusing or a bit too personal/subjective.

Asatru and heathenry aren't really difficult to practice, but they aren't like Wicca.

Wicca is (generally) a mystery religion with a focus on ritual magic over religious veneration to achieve esoteric knowledge. To "be" Wiccan (generally) means that you study and practice Wiccan elements of religious ritual magic.

Asatru is (generally) a votive religion of worship and offerings. To "be" Asatru means that you venerate the gods and give offerings of thanks or petition. Magic (seidr) is a separate, personal activity independent of gods.

(This is my summary of points made in The Pentagram and The Hammer, an article that explains the differences in more detail.)

In Asatru, the gods won't put you, the individual, ahead of the overall picture. And in the religion, it's seen as kind of fucked up to put yourself ahead anyway, when the point of veneration and offerings is for you and your "tribe" to have and be grateful for good food, good friends, and a peaceful life. The only thing the gods expect of you is to contribute to that. That's about it, there really isn't some heaven, or spiritual landmark to be reached. This is life, make it good for yourself and those around you, and be remembered well.

There are times when you may feel fucked over for the overall picture, or when your life goes to shit because you aren't doing what you should (orthopraxy), despite what you may believe (orthodoxy). But the gods don't expect daily devotionals or sacrifices for the sake of sacrifice, or for you to reach some goal post of deep spiritual knowledge, so there aren't any grueling tasks or demands in that regard.

I think the most difficult part is the "why". In the figuring out of the heathen explanation for the world and the human experience. The myths and legends and lore are all part of that. And answering those questions is where most reconstructionism comes in. Because there are a lot of mysterious things in heathenry, there are spiritual moments that defy logic, and learning the name for them, the reasons for them, the affect they may have on you and your loved ones--in a heathen context-- is important... and interesting.

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