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Author Topic: Seeing Signs: Are We Narcissists?  (Read 6586 times)

Lana288

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Re: Seeing Signs: Are We Narcissists?
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2015, 10:59:51 am »
Quote from: Altair;171995
Many of us here, myself included (in my half-assed attempts at augury), see signs in otherwise ordinary occurrences. Is this inherently narcissistic? Is the possible narcissism involved determined by how often we see these things as personal messages to us, or how deeply we are certain that it's a message?

Is there a way to perceive signs that *isn't* narcissistic?


While it might be narcissist, I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking that a deity/spirit/energy/whathaveyou is taking time to directly communicate with a potential/current worshiper. I honestly think that we're needed and necessary, as people. Partly because of this, I also think that minimizing the importance of oneself as an individual person by thinking that one's too small to be noticed and poked through a sign is self defeating.

This is assuming we're talking about seeing them occasionally, pertaining to important situations- or, at least, somewhat important situations. If one's seeing them everywhere, all the time- well, yes, I think so, though I do think that how often is too often would depend very much on the person and their situation, and possibly what they thought the signs were saying.

-If this doesn't make sense, feel free to take with salt- I've come down with something, and my heads all fuzzy.

Triskell

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Re: Seeing Signs: Are We Narcissists?
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2015, 08:29:51 pm »
Quote from: Ian288;172373
.

 
Here's something I can't wrap my mind around, and it's been bugging me for the last few days:

Does starting to acknowledge something opens up connections to you and that said thing? I'll explain, I'm not skilled with words.

So, I was reading quite a few threads on the Faery-Folk, and before reading them, I honestly didn't think much about them, I couldn't comprehend the concept. But now that I have, and seeing how many people are wary of them, I don't feel all that good about their existence, and even begin to question whether they are lurking around, and were just waiting for me to acknowledge them before making their presence known.

What do you think about that last point, concerning any set of beliefs? That some entities (I use this word trying to encompass as many concepts as possible) were just waiting for you to acknowledge them to make their presence known? Or is it just you seeing things differently, like a sort of paranoia?

(I've had no experience whatsoever with the Fairy-Folk after my reading about them, but I was just wondering anyway...)

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Re: Seeing Signs: Are We Narcissists?
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2015, 09:17:56 pm »
Quote from: Altair;171995
Is there a way to perceive signs that *isn't* narcissistic?

Question everything. I'm serious, I find people who take random stuff as a sign (especially if said signs usually confirm what they want to do/believe) without much questioning as misguided at best and simply gullible at worst.
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Faemon

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Re: Seeing Signs: Are We Narcissists?
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2015, 02:20:27 am »
Quote from: Triskell;173934
Here's something I can't wrap my mind around, and it's been bugging me for the last few days: Does starting to acknowledge something opens up connections to you and that said thing?

 
Reminds me more of this thread I made a while back about making something religiously forbidden, but if it's become forbidden enough that the collective psyche changes and you can't even see it for what it is, then how do you know to avoid it?

The direction might be the opposite of what you're asking. But, there is a standpoint upon the point of a Thing That Is. But there's also an alternative philosophy to consider, whereby perception and creation are a closed loop system, and it is within that loop that makes a Thing appear like it Is.

On the one hand, I believe our acknowledgments ought to articulate our experience of a Thing That Is, not contrive it. On the other hand, I can believe that so much of our experience is contrivance enough become the Thing That Is (for the given value of reality). Which one is the gripping hand?


If you're asking if you would never have had paranormal paranoia in your experience if you couldn't articulate it, then...maybe.

I think it depends on the individual.

I keep hearing and reading about these conjectures that extraterrestrial encounters are a new version of fairy tales: strange otherworldly beings that like to interfere with us and take us to other worlds and put us back. That would suggest that fairies are a Thing That Is, and that if you didn't open yourself up to fairies, then fairies would happen to you anyway but some other paranormal enthusiasts would label it "a close encounter." They might even insist that what people thought were fairies in the olden days were really extraterrestrials: changelings, starseeds, same thing.

Some other people decided that these Fairyland journeys and Alien Abuductions alike are all products of a sleep disorder. Before I understood what sleep paralysis was, it would usually be an inconvenient thing that happened, that I was sure was not a dream, but as it wasn't a perpetual inconvenience then I would grumble but not worry so much. Whether it was "really" aliens or "really" a sleep disorder or "really" the aerie-faery thing that I believe about it now doesn't matter if the Thing just happens, but my beliefs about it do affect what I do about it. I may never know what it always "really" is, which fortunately doesn't actually matter when I'm doing something about it (I hope.) It's just the effects of the doing that matter.

So...are you worried more by having the conjectured ways of the fae articulated? Or are you worried less?

If it's the former, that very worry may or may not be a factor in a belief coming true, but the believe definitely opens you up to worry.

...Sorry for the really long non-answer. :p
The Codex of Poesy: wishcraft, faelatry, alchemy, and other slight misspellings.
the Otherfaith: Chromatic Genderbending Faery Monarchs of Technology. DeviantArt

Triskell

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Re: Seeing Signs: Are We Narcissists?
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2015, 05:49:13 am »
Quote from: Faemon;173945
Reminds me more of this thread I made a while back about making something religiously forbidden, but if it's become forbidden enough that the collective psyche changes and you can't even see it for what it is, then how do you know to avoid it?

The direction might be the opposite of what you're asking. But, there is a standpoint upon the point of a Thing That Is. But there's also an alternative philosophy to consider, whereby perception and creation are a closed loop system, and it is within that loop that makes a Thing appear like it Is.


That thread was a very interesting read, thank you for linking it, and I do see the connection!

Quote from: Faemon;173945
I keep hearing and reading about these conjectures that extraterrestrial encounters are a new version of fairy tales: strange otherworldly beings that like to interfere with us and take us to other worlds and put us back. That would suggest that fairies are a Thing That Is, and that if you didn't open yourself up to fairies, then fairies would happen to you anyway but some other paranormal enthusiasts would label it "a close encounter." They might even insist that what people thought were fairies in the olden days were really extraterrestrials: changelings, starseeds, same thing.

Some other people decided that these Fairyland journeys and Alien Abuductions alike are all products of a sleep disorder. Before I understood what sleep paralysis was, it would usually be an inconvenient thing that happened, that I was sure was not a dream, but as it wasn't a perpetual inconvenience then I would grumble but not worry so much. Whether it was "really" aliens or "really" a sleep disorder or "really" the aerie-faery thing that I believe about it now doesn't matter if the Thing just happens, but my beliefs about it do affect what I do about it. I may never know what it always "really" is, which fortunately doesn't actually matter when I'm doing something about it (I hope.) It's just the effects of the doing that matter.


Oh I like that idea, I had never seen it that way!

Quote from: Faemon;173945

So...are you worried more by having the conjectured ways of the fae articulated? Or are you worried less?

If it's the former, that very worry may or may not be a factor in a belief coming true, but the believe definitely opens you up to worry.


In fact what you wrote confirmed the conclusion I have reached: we call things differently depending on the context.
And so I don't worry much about the Faery-Folk now that I have associated them with a concept I'm familiar with: the spirit-world. Of course to some it is obviously the same, but as a beginner in this Gaelic path, the whole concept of Fairies was a complete mystery to me, but now it's all good!

(the wonders of being a beginner: going from discoveries to discoveries, and never ceasing to be amazed, I love it!)

But I'm still wondering whether starting to acknowledge something sends a sort of red-light to some entities that tells them that it's now ok to nag this person, he/she knows we exist, let's get acquainted now!
I'll probably never have a clear answer to that because it depends on our own beliefs, and especially our conception of polytheism. Which is good, leaving the endless possibilities open...

Faemon

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Re: Seeing Signs: Are We Narcissists?
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2015, 08:47:35 pm »
Quote from: Triskell;173947
what you wrote confirmed the conclusion I have reached: we call things differently depending on the context.


I think of it like...belief systems as a language. The Japanese word for "water" is mizu and the English word for water is, of course, water. These are different names for the same natural phenomenon that affects human life.

However, the Japanese word chanyo does not remain correct if translated into English as tea party. The event, the actions, and the experience is very different because of distinct cultural differences.

It can be different or the same depending on the context of the thing. :)

Quote
I'm still wondering whether starting to acknowledge something sends a sort of red-light to some entities that tells them that it's now ok to nag this person, he/she knows we exist, let's get acquainted now!

 
Catherine MacCoun might have put it best when she wrote (in her Hermetic alchemy book) that: when you enter a room in the "real" world, you now there is somebody else in the room. They take up space. So, you notice the other person, and then you decide if you want to greet them, and then you both start a conversation.

In the otherworld, (according to her) the connection happens first and then you can see them. So, in one way, your intuition can be correct.

However, in MacCoun's experience, angels have a delicate connection to humans. If you cannot focus, or if you feel upset, then it's like static noise in the connection. The non-angelic beings, however, are...sticky. They have no concept of "self" so they cannot think, "I am not you". They are often encountered by accident, instead of by focus. By this nature, they bother people with their connection, and can be difficult to remove.

The Fae can be something in between. Sometimes, maybe, too distracted to keep their connection with one human for too long; other times, maybe, a fae can be an interfering trickster that cannot be caught but also never goes away; still other times, they communicate their conditions clearly and properly.
The Codex of Poesy: wishcraft, faelatry, alchemy, and other slight misspellings.
the Otherfaith: Chromatic Genderbending Faery Monarchs of Technology. DeviantArt

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