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Author Topic: Offerings and Issues of Waste  (Read 6927 times)

Riothamus12

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Offerings and Issues of Waste
« on: February 24, 2015, 01:41:06 pm »
People make offerings to Deities and Spirits all the time. Yet there is one aspect that has always bothered me where this is concerned. People make offerings of food, drink, and many other things, but with this comes a concern for waste. The Divine does not necessarily physically consume the offerings. Whenever I hear about people making offerings of food, I think about the people who could be eating it. Offerings of ones own blood are risky and not simply because it involves cutting ones own flesh. I know the intent, but I object to the sacrifice of a living being. It's soul is not mine to give away in my mind. Instead, I often burn incense. Not just because my practice and philosophy has been influenced by Hinduism, Buddhism, and other similar traditions, but because nothing is left to waste. Offerings of burning candles are also common in my practice for the same reason. Yet, some times these offerings feel inadequate. I want to give something more, but I fear merely leaving the offerings out to waste. Even in the case of objects I worry about the people who could be using them. So how does one deal with the issue of waste?
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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2015, 01:47:18 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;171600
So how does one deal with the issue of waste?

 
I eat my food offerings and use offered water to hydrate my houseplants. Occasionally I might leave some food outside with the understanding an animal or something may come along and consume it, but the idea of waste in general just doesn't sit well with me either.
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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2015, 02:15:22 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;171600
People make offerings to Deities and Spirits all the time. Yet there is one aspect that has always bothered me where this is concerned. People make offerings of food, drink, and many other things, but with this comes a concern for waste. ...

So how does one deal with the issue of waste?


This perplexes me too. When I practiced Hinduism, food offered to the Gods is called naivedya, and after the Gods "partook" and blessed it, it is called prasad, and should be consumed. In fact it's bad form to refuse it.
 
However, now as Asatrur I've run into mixed recommendations... eat it, ditch it, offer it to the Earth, don't offer it to the Earth, leave it out... oy veh! As someone pointed out to me, does the Earth really want alcohol poured onto her? Well in a real blót that's done, so, I don't know, and I'm far from being anything remotely resembling a goði (priest). :p

But considering that everything is done on an astral plane or dimension (for lack of a better term), I'm going with offering it, leaving it for a while, then consuming it. My offerings are usually just a horn of beer, ale or mead, and/or some nuts, fruit, etc., not a full course meal. Besides, this weather in NJ is much too frigid to be running outside to pour an ounce or two of mead or beer at the end of my libation offering. Though at some point I'd put the nuts, fruits, etc. outdoors for the little animals and birds. ;)

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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2015, 02:52:30 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;171600
People make offerings to Deities and Spirits all the time. Yet there is one aspect that has always bothered me where this is concerned. People make offerings of food, drink, and many other things, but with this comes a concern for waste.


I think part of this is that there are some vastly different attitudes toward what an offering should be in different paths and  traditions, and those things often make sense in context, but not necessarily outside of it.

For example, in the Afro-Carribean diaspora religions, it's common to have a vast feast for some kinds of rituals, and deities get a plate of food on the altar (with a small amount of each of the foods they like, usually.) The rest of the food is served to the people there, and especially in poorer communities, it may be one of the only times people get certain kinds of foods.

Some traditions do something similar for Samhain - a spoonful of each of the foods brought for the feast (in my tradition, there's a plate that goes on the ancestor altar, and in group ritual people bring foods that have ancestral meaning or are favourites of particular Beloved Dead. Spoonful on the ancestor plate which eventually goes outside where it can be eaten by wildlife, the people there eat the rest or divvy it up to take home.)

In both of these cases, there are arguments that yes, that's a full plate of food, but it's a full plate made up of a spoonful of a dozen or more different dishes, the rest of which are not wasted. (And also, that such rituals are not a daily thing - nor even necessarily one a month.) When I do personal ritual, I do a token amount of my meal (less than a spoonful from each dish, usually.)

More generally, my ritual offerings are a token amount of bread and wine from the Great Rite (a pinch of bread, and I have a little tiny pottery thumb-size bowl the wine goes into: they both go outside, yes, even if it's freezing. A day or two later, I bring them in, rinse the bowl, and it's good.)  

In other religious traditions, the offerings are are minimal (a single stick of incense, a token amount of wine or milk or whatever liquid, a small amount of cool water) where again, it is not a large amount of waste if those things are an ordinary part of your life. (Burning a dozen incense sticks a day is a lot. Burning one or even burning one for five minutes, so it takes a week to go through a stick, is a bit different.)

For larger offerings, some ideas I've used (besides the occasional more formal ritual meal, as above)

- Spinning wool (or other natural fiber), letting it sit as an offering for a bit, and then taking it outside where it can weather away or be used by nesting birds. (If you're planning to do this, make sure it doesn't have things that would be damaging in nature. I usually prefer undyed wool, but that's me.) There are obviously other fiber arts that could be used too.

- Making something, but having it be something that is deliberately long term as an offering - for example, I've done small sculptures out of polymer clay to reflect specific goals or ancestors-of-profession. I do occasionally dispose of one, but very rarely.

- Making an offering of something that is slowly used up over time - candles, obviously, but also things like blending a scent out of essential oils and mixing it with lotion, or making a salve or a hydrosol or something like that, where you use it up a little at a time.

- Some people also do complex things with tea or herbal tisanes - make the blend, drink some of it, pour a small amount out in offering/give the leaves/etc. to nature. There are endless formal touches possible with tea.

- Some people do a rotating pile of small shiny things - tumbled rocks, simple jewelry, etc. It is offered for a period of time on the altar, and then is rotated out. A rock might be brought back to an appropriate lake, river, or ocean. A piece of jewelry might be given to someone they know (who's aware of its history) or moved into regular wearing rotatation.

One I've sort of wanted to experiment with is the tradition of throwing or burying a ring or other smaller piece of jewelry into water (the trick of course is getting a material where that isn't a problem, where you can work the material easily with the tools you have.) Beeswax carving is also an option here - something where the effort of the offering is in the crafting.
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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2015, 03:30:35 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;171600
...Whenever I hear about people making offerings of food, I think about the people who could be eating it.


As Jenett said, different traditions handle this differently.  My own involves the reversion of offerings that are food or drink; after a period of time, I consume my offerings.

Quote
Offerings of ones own blood are risky and not simply because it involves cutting ones own flesh. I know the intent, but I object to the sacrifice of a living being. It's soul is not mine to give away in my mind.


I'm a bit confused by what you mean here - are you saying you don't think you have the right to offer your own bodily fluids because they are connected to soul, or are you talking about offering another living being in your place, like a chicken?

Obviously, if you object to either thing you don't have to do it, and I don't know that anyone would try to convince you otherwise.

Quote
Instead, I often burn incense. Not just because my practice and philosophy has been influenced by Hinduism, Buddhism, and other similar traditions, but because nothing is left to waste. Offerings of burning candles are also common in my practice for the same reason.


What about the remaining ash, or residue, or wax from incense/candle offerings?  What do you do with those things?

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I am curious as to how far your personal practice goes in terms of waste prevention.

Quote
Yet, some times these offerings feel inadequate. I want to give something more, but I fear merely leaving the offerings out to waste. Even in the case of objects I worry about the people who could be using them. So how does one deal with the issue of waste?


Have you considered offering your time, either through crafting or community work, or something else?  I know a number of people who do blood offerings through donation of blood, or platelets, or plasma at a hospital.
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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2015, 04:01:49 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;171600
People make offerings to Deities and Spirits all the time. Yet there is one aspect that has always bothered me where this is concerned. People make offerings of food, drink, and many other things, but with this comes a concern for waste. The Divine does not necessarily physically consume the offerings. Whenever I hear about people making offerings of food, I think about the people who could be eating it. Offerings of ones own blood are risky and not simply because it involves cutting ones own flesh. I know the intent, but I object to the sacrifice of a living being. It's soul is not mine to give away in my mind. Instead, I often burn incense. Not just because my practice and philosophy has been influenced by Hinduism, Buddhism, and other similar traditions, but because nothing is left to waste. Offerings of burning candles are also common in my practice for the same reason. Yet, some times these offerings feel inadequate. I want to give something more, but I fear merely leaving the offerings out to waste. Even in the case of objects I worry about the people who could be using them. So how does one deal with the issue of waste?

 
It's only a waste if you don't believe the gods literally consume the essence of the offering. I do. (In my tradition, we don't eat it, for just that reason.)

While I wouldn't leave more in an offering than necessary, I also wouldn't cook bigger meals for myself than necessary, either.
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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2015, 04:15:40 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;171600
People make offerings to Deities and Spirits all the time. Yet there is one aspect that has always bothered me where this is concerned. People make offerings of food, drink, and many other things, but with this comes a concern for waste. The Divine does not necessarily physically consume the offerings. Whenever I hear about people making offerings of food, I think about the people who could be eating it. Offerings of ones own blood are risky and not simply because it involves cutting ones own flesh. I know the intent, but I object to the sacrifice of a living being. It's soul is not mine to give away in my mind. Instead, I often burn incense. Not just because my practice and philosophy has been influenced by Hinduism, Buddhism, and other similar traditions, but because nothing is left to waste. Offerings of burning candles are also common in my practice for the same reason. Yet, some times these offerings feel inadequate. I want to give something more, but I fear merely leaving the offerings out to waste. Even in the case of objects I worry about the people who could be using them. So how does one deal with the issue of waste?



Oh the idea of waste and offerings....I was actually just having this conversation.

Part of it depends on traditions. When I offer to a Kemetic deity, the offerings are reverted. No waste.

When I was doing ADF style rituals however, offering are not reverted. And that bugged me. Can't really dump bread outside cause its not great for birds. Alcohol and compostable offerings are better because I can always add to my compost bin. But then I wonder about the overall waste, to get to the store that item has to come from somewhere, is it really good for the earth overall to buy items for the sake of disposing them?

I tend to offer incense, candles, water, or donation credit (what I mean by this is that I keep a small bowl of stones on my shrine and I use them as offerings. Once the number of stones reaches say 15-20 I donate that much to a wildlife group. Not my original idea, I adapted it from someone else). Left over wax gets recycled into new candles. Water goes to plants. Incense ash I add to compost. The last isn't as not wasteful as I'd like but I try to at least minimize.

For holidays and such I keep offerings small and keep small offering containers to help with that. I view offerings as a gesture of hospitality.

Hope that makes sense.

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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2015, 08:16:51 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;171600
People make offerings to Deities and Spirits all the time. Yet there is one aspect that has always bothered me where this is concerned. People make offerings of food, drink, and many other things, but with this comes a concern for waste. The Divine does not necessarily physically consume the offerings. Whenever I hear about people making offerings of food, I think about the people who could be eating it. Offerings of ones own blood are risky and not simply because it involves cutting ones own flesh. I know the intent, but I object to the sacrifice of a living being. It's soul is not mine to give away in my mind. Instead, I often burn incense. Not just because my practice and philosophy has been influenced by Hinduism, Buddhism, and other similar traditions, but because nothing is left to waste. Offerings of burning candles are also common in my practice for the same reason. Yet, some times these offerings feel inadequate. I want to give something more, but I fear merely leaving the offerings out to waste. Even in the case of objects I worry about the people who could be using them. So how does one deal with the issue of waste?

 
This is definitely a concern for me, as well, but I've come to an arrangement that I'm pretty comfortable with.  In my everyday rites, which is where I'm most concerned with waste occurring, I try to use things that I grow myself, things that will tangibly benefit wildlife or the environment, or things that are being re-used.  During the summer this is easy - I'll go through the garden and pick a small thing to give to the spirits.  I dry herbs and flowers to use during the winter during this time as well.  When winter rolls around and I run out of my stock of herbs, I'll buy birdseed and scatter it as an offering, or just use a small amount of water.  One other thing I've started doing lately is pouring out a small amount of my morning tea for the ancestors, and I don't believe a small amount of my tea is really a waste, seeing as how otherwise I would be drinking it.

For major rituals, of which I participate in about eight a year, I'm a little more lax.  Our Grove will make food and give plates to the ancestors as others have mentioned.  I will often use herbs or flowers I grew as I mentioned before, but sometimes the deity in question is strongly associated with a specific offering and I want to give that thing - our Norse rites will almost always involve a small offering of mead, for example.  But these are small, and only happening a few times a year, and so it doesn't weigh heavily on my conscience.
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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2015, 09:17:12 pm »
Quote from: Sage;171601
Occasionally I might leave some food outside with the understanding an animal or something may come along and consume it, but the idea of waste in general just doesn't sit well with me either.

I've done this one.  The offerings I've left have also been small portions, so there's nothing left behind after the critters have at it.  Liquid offering?  Small amount of beer, usually on bare soil or into the compost bin.  
I usually add wax leavings to other candles, so there's very little waste there.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 09:17:46 pm by MadZealot »
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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2015, 10:17:16 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;171600
People make offerings to Deities and Spirits all the time. Yet there is one aspect that has always bothered me where this is concerned. People make offerings of food, drink, and many other things, but with this comes a concern for waste. The Divine does not necessarily physically consume the offerings. Whenever I hear about people making offerings of food, I think about the people who could be eating it. Offerings of ones own blood are risky and not simply because it involves cutting ones own flesh. I know the intent, but I object to the sacrifice of a living being. It's soul is not mine to give away in my mind. Instead, I often burn incense. Not just because my practice and philosophy has been influenced by Hinduism, Buddhism, and other similar traditions, but because nothing is left to waste. Offerings of burning candles are also common in my practice for the same reason. Yet, some times these offerings feel inadequate. I want to give something more, but I fear merely leaving the offerings out to waste. Even in the case of objects I worry about the people who could be using them. So how does one deal with the issue of waste?

 
This is something I worry about too, and it's partly why I don't mark Hekate's deipnon with a feast at a crossroads, because I don't feel safe going out there at night, nor do I feel good leaving food out where rats or dogs or even cats might eat it, and no one's ever given me any other helpful alternatives to that. The only crossroads close to me is in a public walkway, and I don't feel it's ethical to leave food offerings outside where other people's pets might eat them and potentially get sick, nor do I want to encourage rats to move in any more than they already have. So that doesn't get done.

My daily devotions only involve an offering of water, which is easy enough to consume, along with incense and flame, if it's not too hot. Water is my staple offering because it's easy to dispose of. I can consume it or offer it to the garden, without worrying I'm causing harm. The only offerings I don't consume are those I give to Wesir and the ancestors for the 6th day festival, or for any other ancestral rituals, and those water offerings get poured onto the garden instead. I have a specific outdoor shrine outside my bedroom window where those offerings get poured.

I will sometimes give more substantial food offerings at major festivals, but again, I usually consume all mine, so waste isn't an issue. I only offer what I will eat, and this is sometimes why I don't eat for an hour or two beforehand, so I'm hungry enough to eat my offerings afterwards. If I feel moved to offer any to the earth, it goes in the compost heap. I also try to make creative offerings of art or writing, just for another alternative to food offerings. Sometimes I write festival-specific hymns, or do some sort of artwork, or I make boxes or statues or other sacred things. The time and effort is part of the offering, as much as the final product is.

I think the worst of my waste is probably candles. I don't really have the skills to reuse old candles to make new ones, so I try to burn them as completely as possible before I throw the remnants away. It's not ideal, but limiting my candle use so I only use what I really need is the best way, at the moment, that I can limit the wax I throw out.
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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2015, 09:37:49 am »
Quote from: katbast;171619
Oh the idea of waste and offerings....I was actually just having this conversation.

Part of it depends on traditions. When I offer to a Kemetic deity, the offerings are reverted. No waste.

When I was doing ADF style rituals however, offering are not reverted. And that bugged me. Can't really dump bread outside cause its not great for birds. Alcohol and compostable offerings are better because I can always add to my compost bin. But then I wonder about the overall waste, to get to the store that item has to come from somewhere, is it really good for the earth overall to buy items for the sake of disposing them?

I tend to offer incense, candles, water, or donation credit (what I mean by this is that I keep a small bowl of stones on my shrine and I use them as offerings. Once the number of stones reaches say 15-20 I donate that much to a wildlife group. Not my original idea, I adapted it from someone else). Left over wax gets recycled into new candles. Water goes to plants. Incense ash I add to compost. The last isn't as not wasteful as I'd like but I try to at least minimize.

For holidays and such I keep offerings small and keep small offering containers to help with that. I view offerings as a gesture of hospitality.

Hope that makes sense.

 
I had never heard of the donation credit idea before. Holy crap, that is genius and I am really glad you shared that. It's come at just the right time for me as I have been struggling to think of what I can do to honor the spirit of a recently deceased pet whom I was especially connected to.The tiny cat shelter in our area would be an ideal donation recipient.

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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2015, 10:00:52 am »
Quote from: Allaya;171653
I had never heard of the donation credit idea before. Holy crap, that is genius and I am really glad you shared that. It's come at just the right time for me as I have been struggling to think of what I can do to honor the spirit of a recently deceased pet whom I was especially connected to.The tiny cat shelter in our area would be an ideal donation recipient.

It is like a great weight has been lifted from me. Thank you so much.

 
Some other Cauldronites and I have been using Kiva (an online service for getting micro-loans to people starting businesses around the world) as a devotional offering. It started with Opet (a Kemetic holiday) in 2013 but expanded beyond that. I've got a link in my signature to the group. Loans can be as small as $25 USD and are almost always repaid.

As a Brighid Kid, I like to look for loans that have to do with livestock and dairy production. It feels good to empower people to make their lives better.
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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2015, 11:55:18 am »
Quote from: Riothamus12;171600
So how does one deal with the issue of waste?

 
I think about this a lot.  The group I practice with does offering plates for larger gatherings (anything where there is a ritual and a feast), and the plate is placed on the altar for the ritual, and then outside for critters to partake.

On my own, I offer food through myself.  I offer myself up as a vessel for the consumption of the offering, and take bites of the things on my plate.  I like the idea that, through me, they can experience things in a different way.

I also make small offering statues out of modified salt dough.  I use coffee grounds, flour, salt and water.  I model small versions of things, to be used as offering stones.  I saw the idea from someone who was using cinnamon blessing stars (the dough was cinnamon and applesauce).  

I also use service as offering.  That is one thing I sort of picked up from my mom.  She was a service as love person, so whenever she was asked what she wanted (for birthday or Christmas or what have you) she always responded with things like "a clean house."  It kind of instilled in me the idea of doing things as a viable gift.
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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2015, 10:04:12 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;171600
So how does one deal with the issue of waste?


I think people get too caught up in the idea that we have to offer a large quantity of something for it to be a valid offering.

For instance, if you offer incense, do you burn the entire pack at a time? Or is it one or two sticks/cones per offering? If it's only one stick, then why would it be any less valid to offer one shot of alchohol, or one generous pinch of bread?

When I do make food offerings, it's often at my ADF Grove and I'm pouring a minibottle of alchohol on the fire, so that's about one shot (maybe slightly more). If I do it at home, it's a token amount. So I'm not tossing out an entire loaf of bread, or even a whole slice. Just a portion of a slice and I'll eat the rest of that piece.

We're not a practice where the Gods require us to sacrifice mass quantities to gain their favor. That may be the fashion in other places, but all indications tell me that it's not necessary here. They want to be honored and remembered, but not to the point of conspicuous waste just to show that you can.

Karen

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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2015, 12:45:04 am »
Quote from: dragonfaerie;171680
I think people get too caught up in the idea that we have to offer a large quantity of something for it to be a valid offering.

For instance, if you offer incense, do you burn the entire pack at a time? Or is it one or two sticks/cones per offering? If it's only one stick, then why would it be any less valid to offer one shot of alchohol, or one generous pinch of bread?

When I do make food offerings, it's often at my ADF Grove and I'm pouring a minibottle of alchohol on the fire, so that's about one shot (maybe slightly more). If I do it at home, it's a token amount. So I'm not tossing out an entire loaf of bread, or even a whole slice. Just a portion of a slice and I'll eat the rest of that piece.

We're not a practice where the Gods require us to sacrifice mass quantities to gain their favor. That may be the fashion in other places, but all indications tell me that it's not necessary here. They want to be honored and remembered, but not to the point of conspicuous waste just to show that you can.

Karen
Ah, a fellow member of ADF. I was wondering how do other members feel about the offering of silver? Personally, I've chosen not to do it as part of my solitary practice as throwing a non biodegradable object in a river is not my idea of being kind to the environment. Does your grove have a stance on silver?

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