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Author Topic: Offerings and Issues of Waste  (Read 6924 times)

Sophia C

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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2015, 03:43:08 am »
Quote from: Riothamus12;171600
People make offerings to Deities and Spirits all the time. Yet there is one aspect that has always bothered me where this is concerned. People make offerings of food, drink, and many other things, but with this comes a concern for waste. The Divine does not necessarily physically consume the offerings. Whenever I hear about people making offerings of food, I think about the people who could be eating it. Offerings of ones own blood are risky and not simply because it involves cutting ones own flesh. I know the intent, but I object to the sacrifice of a living being. It's soul is not mine to give away in my mind. Instead, I often burn incense. Not just because my practice and philosophy has been influenced by Hinduism, Buddhism, and other similar traditions, but because nothing is left to waste. Offerings of burning candles are also common in my practice for the same reason. Yet, some times these offerings feel inadequate. I want to give something more, but I fear merely leaving the offerings out to waste. Even in the case of objects I worry about the people who could be using them. So how does one deal with the issue of waste?

 
We had a thread about this not long ago: http://ecauldron.com/forum/showthread.php?10427-The-ethics-of-offerings&p=156076&viewfull=1#post156076 . My position pretty much remains the same as in that. Giving physical offerings is important in at least two of my traditions. I think it can be done well and ethically.

There are some concerns I have with this whole thread:

1) No one is defining 'waste'. If I eat a chicken and there are bones left over, yes there is some necessary waste, but I've taken all that I can from it. And if I recycle that in the composter, I think I'm minimising as much waste as I can. I see that very differently from buying a chicken purely to throw it out. So what's happening to the food offerings that you give to your gods? That is absolutely central to your belief of whether food offerings are 'waste' or not. In other words, the concept of waste relates to your theology and view of the gods. I *will not* eat what I offer to the gods, due to a Gaelic-tradition taboo that I seem to have internalised quite strongly (which I intepret as meaning that my gods have Opinions on the subject). That doesn't mean I would be upset to see someone else share their offerings to their gods, since they would presumably have a very different view of what happens to the offerings than I do. So I think defining your theology, in terms of your concepts both of the gods and of what happens to physical offerings, is central here.

2) No one's saying people can't give offerings that are not food/drink. I give other types of offerings *all the time*. I'm quite surprised by people talking about giving other offerings as though this is a revolutionary idea. Offerings of service are the FIRST thing my Lady asks of me, and others among my household gods ask for offerings of time, work and creativity.

3) Lots of us give money offerings. I'm very concerned that that shouldn't be seen as essential - there are financial privilege issues at work if someone says that the gods require donations of money. But it's certainly a thing I try to do. I love Kiva because of how the money gets recycled and put to really good use (and I have my causes there that my gods like - horses, cows, bees...) But I also give other money offerings. I just don't shout about them from the rooftops, not least because I find I lean towards theJewish idea that the best mitzvah (good deed/following of a commandment) is done in secret. It's not such a good deed if people know about it. Anonymous good deeds FTW!

But we weren't originally talking about creativity, service or money offerings. We were talking about food offerings and whether they are waste. And I say: it depends. We need to come back with our (varying) theologies here. Respecting other people's Pagan paths, in an interfaith-Pagan way, requires understanding of these beliefs and respect of them. I know I'm in a minority for wanting to give food offerings which I will later compost. That does NOT mean I can't do that ethically.
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Aiwelin

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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2015, 10:15:36 am »
Quote from: Sisu;171689
Ah, a fellow member of ADF. I was wondering how do other members feel about the offering of silver? Personally, I've chosen not to do it as part of my solitary practice as throwing a non biodegradable object in a river is not my idea of being kind to the environment. Does your grove have a stance on silver?

 
I also don't offer silver in my personal rites; I do enough that I'd develop quite a stack over time, and that's not ideal.  We do offer silver during grove rites, however.
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Sophia C

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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2015, 10:28:19 am »
Quote from: Sisu;171689
Ah, a fellow member of ADF. I was wondering how do other members feel about the offering of silver? Personally, I've chosen not to do it as part of my solitary practice as throwing a non biodegradable object in a river is not my idea of being kind to the environment. Does your grove have a stance on silver?

 
I have a single silver coin that gets offered into my personal 'well' on my altar during ADF rites, but the coin stays dedicated to that purpose on my altar. It never gets littered into outdoor water. I think that's a pretty good compromise - I know a lot of ADF people do something similar.
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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2015, 12:28:06 pm »
Quote from: Kylara;171659

I also make small offering statues out of modified salt dough.  I use coffee grounds, flour, salt and water.  I model small versions of things, to be used as offering stones.  I saw the idea from someone who was using cinnamon blessing stars (the dough was cinnamon and applesauce).  


 
Can you expand on this? Do the statues stay on your altar permanently, or do you remove them? If you remove them, what do you do with them?

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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2015, 07:08:42 pm »
Quote from: MadZealot;171632
I've done this one.  The offerings I've left have also been small portions, so there's nothing left behind after the critters have at it.  Liquid offering?  Small amount of beer, usually on bare soil or into the compost bin.  

 
Me too :) Many years ago when I used to make offerings I would sometimes through the food up onto the roof for the birds.

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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2015, 07:11:49 pm »
Quote from: dragonfaerie;171680
I think people get too caught up in the idea that we have to offer a large quantity of something for it to be a valid offering.

 
Fair point Karen. If you are offering larger amounts then this issue would become more important.

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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2015, 07:28:53 pm »
Quote from: Naomi J;171714
I have a single silver coin that gets offered into my personal 'well' on my altar during ADF rites, but the coin stays dedicated to that purpose on my altar. It never gets littered into outdoor water. I think that's a pretty good compromise - I know a lot of ADF people do something similar.

 
That makes sense and sounds like a great compromise. It's one part of the liturgy that I tend to side-eye and I'm in the process of reworking the COoR to be more personally meaningful (I'm only solitary, not part of a grove) so I'll probably borrow this idea.

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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2015, 07:29:57 pm »
Quote from: Aiwelin;171713
I also don't offer silver in my personal rites; I do enough that I'd develop quite a stack over time, and that's not ideal.  We do offer silver during grove rites, however.

 
If you don't mind my asking, what sort of things do you offer instead for your personal rites?

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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2015, 07:31:14 pm »
Quote from: Aiwelin;171713
...

 
Oops forget my post above. I just saw that you answered this earlier in the thread. Sorry!

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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2015, 07:57:53 am »
Quote from: FierFlye;171729
Can you expand on this? Do the statues stay on your altar permanently, or do you remove them? If you remove them, what do you do with them?

 
They stay on the altar for the ritual, and then they are removed, either buried or burnt typically, though I have also left them out in places significant to me as well.
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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2015, 11:09:05 pm »
Quote from: Sisu;171794
That makes sense and sounds like a great compromise. It's one part of the liturgy that I tend to side-eye and I'm in the process of reworking the COoR to be more personally meaningful (I'm only solitary, not part of a grove) so I'll probably borrow this idea.

 
Reworking the COoR? I'd love to hear how that's going, even though I'm not in ADF anymore.
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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2015, 12:01:13 am »
Quote from: Sage;171905
Reworking the COoR? I'd love to hear how that's going, even though I'm not in ADF anymore.

 
Honestly, it's just my attempt to analyze the ritual structure and figure out how to reorganize and personalize it so it's meaningful for me. Because as it stands, it's way too long for it to be practical on a regular basis since I'm really trying to make my daily and weekly practices more frequent. I've been reading through the liturgical notes from Bonewits and so far they've been very helpful in getting an idea of why it is the way it is (though the COoR has gone through at least one major revision since those writings).

I'm not particularly recon and I don't do group worship; I just want to have a more effective connection to my spirituality where ritual can be spontaneous and fun instead of something that, to me, feels like memorizing an instruction manual for a Rube Goldberg machine. I really like the cosmology and core beliefs of Neo-Druidry as a whole. ADF gives me more of a direction to go in with resources and information that's just focused enough without seeming either too restrictive or scattered via the Dedicant Path, but in my opinion the liturgy is such an unwieldy beast-- and I suspect it's one reason that people don't stay with the organization.

Even more honestly, I could see myself moving away from ADF entirely if this endeavor isn't successful. My membership comes up for renewal in a little under a year so I figure that will give me enough time to make a decision on whether it's ultimately right for me since that'll put me at 2 years as a member.

Sophia C

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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2015, 05:39:46 am »
Quote from: Sisu;172099
I really like the cosmology and core beliefs of Neo-Druidry as a whole. ADF gives me more of a direction to go in with resources and information that's just focused enough without seeming either too restrictive or scattered via the Dedicant Path, but in my opinion the liturgy is such an unwieldy beast-- and I suspect it's one reason that people don't stay with the organization.

Even more honestly, I could see myself moving away from ADF entirely if this endeavor isn't successful. My membership comes up for renewal in a little under a year so I figure that will give me enough time to make a decision on whether it's ultimately right for me since that'll put me at 2 years as a member.

 
*nods* I think that's one of the reasons I'm losing patience with ADF and may or may not stay with it. I can't get any real connection with the ritual, even though I did it a LOT during my first year studying the Dedicant Path. They basically say "Just keep trying and it will come"... but that's not really been my experience. On the other hand, revival druidry ritual 'clicks' a lot better for me, even though intellectually I like parts of it a lot less.
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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2015, 09:55:58 pm »
Quote from: Riothamus12;171600
People make offerings to Deities and Spirits all the time. Yet there is one aspect that has always bothered me where this is concerned. People make offerings of food, drink, and many other things, but with this comes a concern for waste. The Divine does not necessarily physically consume the offerings. Whenever I hear about people making offerings of food, I think about the people who could be eating it. Offerings of ones own blood are risky and not simply because it involves cutting ones own flesh. I know the intent, but I object to the sacrifice of a living being. It's soul is not mine to give away in my mind. Instead, I often burn incense. Not just because my practice and philosophy has been influenced by Hinduism, Buddhism, and other similar traditions, but because nothing is left to waste. Offerings of burning candles are also common in my practice for the same reason. Yet, some times these offerings feel inadequate. I want to give something more, but I fear merely leaving the offerings out to waste. Even in the case of objects I worry about the people who could be using them. So how does one deal with the issue of waste?

 

I've also been thinking about this myself. I've recently decided that I'm going to make a ceramic box to place offerings in once I've made them and they've set out awhile. I usually offer just a pinch of this and that - corn meal, salt, water.  Once it is full I can take it all out and bury it with a small prayer.

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Re: Offerings and Issues of Waste
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2015, 02:35:03 am »
Quote from: Thorbjorn;171613
This perplexes me too. When I practiced Hinduism, food offered to the Gods is called naivedya, and after the Gods "partook" and blessed it, it is called prasad, and should be consumed. In fact it's bad form to refuse it.
 

 
I agree with this for the Indian gods and it's what I do as well. I think my only confusion is what to do with meat offerings. I do offer meat to some Tantric goddesses, but I don't always know how long to wait before consuming it. I kind of can't help but eye a plate of hot, freshly cooked lamb chops or whatever and imagine eating it cold. But I'm also too scared of the goddesses to be like, "Um, are you finished with that? Can I eat it before it gets cold?"

So I end up waiting around and eating it cold.  :(

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